Why do Protestants become Catholic?

[Eden]

Julia1:

Dude, in James, what kind of ‘works’ was he talking about?

Good Works in Sanctifying Grace are Necessary for Salvation

Neh. 13:14, Psalm 11:7,28:4, Isa. 3:10, 59:18, Jer. 25:14, 50:29, Ezek. 9:10, 11:21, 36:19, Hos. 4:9, 9:15, 12:2, Sir. 16:12,14 - The 2,000 year-old Catholic position on salvation is that we are saved by Jesus Christ and Him alone (cf. Acts 15:11; Eph. 2:5). But by the grace of Christ, we achieve the salvation God desires for us through perseverance in both faith and works. Many Protestants, on the other hand, believe that one just has to accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior to be saved, and good works are not necessary (they just flow from those already saved). But these verses, and many others, teach us that our performance of good works is necessary for our salvation. Scripture also does not teach that good works distinguish those who are eternally saved from those who are not saved.

Sir. 35:19; Luke 23:41; John 3:19-21, Rom. 8:13, 2 Tim 4:14, Titus 3:8,14, Rev. 22:12 - these verses also teach us that we all will be judged by God according to our deeds. There is no distinction between the “saved” and the "unsaved."

1 Cor. 3:15 - if works are unnecessary for salvation as many Protestants believe, then why is a man saved (not just rewarded) through fire by a judgment of his works?

Matt. 7:1-3 - we are not judged just by faith, but actually how we judge others, and we get what we have given. Hence, we are judged according to how we responded to God’s grace during our lives.

Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13 - Jesus taught that we must endure to the very end to be saved. If this is true, then how can Protestants believe in the erroneous teaching of “Once saved, always saved?” If salvation occurred at a specific point in time when we accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, there would be no need to endure to the end. We would already be saved.

Matt. 16:27 – Jesus says He will repay every man for what he has done (works).

Matt. 25:31-46 - Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

Matt. 25:40,45 - Jesus says “Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me.” We are judged and our eternal destiny is determined in accordance with our works.

Mark 10:21 - Jesus says sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.** This means that our salvation depends upon our works**.

Luke 12:43-48 - these verses teach us that we must act according to the Lord’s will. We are judged based upon what we know and then do, not just upon what we know.

Luke 14:14 – Jesus says we are repaid for the works we have done at the resurrection of the just. Our works lead to salvation.

Luke 23:41 - some Protestants argue that Jesus gave salvation to the good thief even though the thief did not do any good works. However, the good thief did in fact do a good work, which was rebuking the bad thief when he and others were reviling Jesus. This was a “work” which justified the good thief before Jesus and gained His favor. Moreover, we don’t know if the good thief asked God for forgiveness, did works of penance and charity and was reconciled to God before he was crucified.

Rom. 2:6-10, 13 - God will judge every man according to his works. Our salvation depends on how we cooperate with God’s grace.

2 Cor. 5:10 - at the judgment Seat of Christ, we are judged according to what we have done in the body, not how much faith we had.

2 Cor. 9:6 – Paul says that he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully, in connection with God’s judgment.

2 Cor. 11:15 - our end will correspond to our deeds. Our works are necessary to both our justification and salvation.

Gal. 6:7-9 – whatever a man sows, he will reap. Paul warns the Galatians not to grow weary in doing good works, for in due season they will reap (the rewards of eternal life).

Eph. 6:8 – whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same again from the Lord.

 

[Eden]

(cont’d)

Col. 3:24-25 - we will receive due payment according to what we have done. Even so, Catholics recognize that such payment is** a free unmerited **gift from God borne from His boundless mercy.

1 Tim. 6:18-19 – the rich are to be rich in good deeds so that they may take hold of the life which is life indeed, that is, eternal life.

2 Tim. 4:14 – Alexander the coppersmith did Paul great harm, and Paul says the Lord will requite him for his deeds.

Heb. 6:10 - God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for His sake. God rewards our works on earth and in heaven.

Heb. 12:14 – without holiness, no one will see the Lord. Holiness requires works of self-denial and charity, and does not come about simply by a profession of faith.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judges us impartially according to our deeds. We participate in applying the grace Jesus won for us at Calvary in our daily lives.

Rev. 2:5 - Jesus tells the Ephesians they have fallen from love they used to have, and orders them to do good works. He is not satisfied with their faith alone. They need to do more than accept Him as personal Lord and Savior.

Rev. 2:10 – Jesus tells the church in Smyrna to be faithful unto death, and He will give them the crown of life. This is the faith of obedience to His commandments.

Rev. 2:19 - Jesus judges the works of the Thyatirans, and despises their tolerance of Jezebel, calling them to repentance.

Rev. 2:23 - Jesus tells us He will give to each of us as our works deserve. He crowns His own gifts by rewarding our good works.

Rev. 2:26 - Jesus says he who conquers and keeps my works until the end will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus thus instructs us to keep his works to the very end. This is not necessary if we are “once saved, always saved.”

Rev. 3:2-5,8,15 – Jesus is judging our works from heaven, and these works bear upon our eternal salvation. If we conquer sin through faith and works, He will not blot our names out of the book of life. This means that works bear upon our salvation. Our “works” do not just deal with level of reward we will receive, but whether we will in fact be saved.

Rev. 3:15 – Jesus says,** “I know your works, you are neither cold nor hot. Because you are lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth.”** Jesus is condemning indifferentism, which is often based on our works.

Rev. 14:13 - we are judged by the Lord by our works – “for their deeds follow them!” Our faith during our life is completed and judged by our works.

Rev. 20:12 – **“the dead are judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.” **

Rev. 22:12 – Jesus says, “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay everyone for what he has done.”
Sirach 16:12,14 – we are judged according to our deeds, and will receive in accordance with our deeds.

www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html

It’s satan who wants Christians to believe they only have to “accept” Jesus Christ one time in their lives and then they can do what ever they want in this life and still be “saved”.

 

[Eden]

Julia1:

Alfie, if you are interested, I am a Moderator at this excellent board that defends against the lies of the Catholic Church…here is the address:

I recognized the tone from Julia1’s posts and had a passing suspicion that she was affiliated with one of these ezboards. Last summer I participated in a board with Tan2Day, perhaps Julia1 was there too. I got banned for providing evidence that the early Church Fathers believed in the Real Presence by posting quotes from some of their writings.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Eden:

I recognized the tone from Julia1’s posts and had a passing suspicion that she was affiliated with one of these ezboards. Last summer I participated in a board with Tan2Day, perhaps Julia1 was there too. I got banned for providing evidence that the early Church Fathers believed in the Real Presence by posting quotes from some of their writings.

If this is true, then their souls need an abundance of prayers. This is not simply ignorance, this is a rejection to hear the evidence. This is an action taken to eliminate evidence. This is a closed heart, a rejection of the truth. I have high hopes for many of our Protestant brothers and sisters… but I have almost no hope for some of them too.

 

[Eden]

Alfie:

IT’S DOCTRINE! Where is your testimony about sin and how Jesus changed your life? Even if 99% of Catholic doctrine was correct its that incorrect 1% doctrine that will “damn you to hell”. More and more Protestants are becoming Catholic because they are more interested in unity than truth. They are deceived. This “can’t we all just get along” and “we are the world” attitude has got to stop". A relationship with Jesus is about truth…not numbers. If there was only one true Evangelical believer left in this world it would be a threat to Catholicism. That one believer represents the truth and they are terrifed of it. Have you never been taught about the book of Revelations? The world is heading into a one world religion. That means it will be centered in Rome. Someday Rome will be hunting down all of the “true” Christians in the world and killing them. Wise up before it is to late and on this note it has been nice knowing you as I am sure to be banned for this post.

“Evangelicalism” is a 19th century American invention - created by men. How is that “truth”?

 

[Eden]

Lazerlike42:

If this is true, then their souls need an abundance of prayers. This is not simply ignorance, this is a rejection to hear the evidence. This is an action taken to eliminate evidence. This is a closed heart, a rejection of the truth. I have high hopes for many of our Protestant brothers and sisters… but I have almost no hope for some of them too.

I won’t mention the name of the board I was on, but Tan2Day participates on it and it is also an ezboard. The board on which I participated is specifically for ex-Catholics who believe in the KJV 1600-something version. They are rabidly anti-Catholic. All of the Catholics there get tremendous verbal abuse and very little in the way of Christianity. Julia1 was very tame in comparison to the abuse at those sites. They do need our prayers.

 

[Tonks40]

Lazerlike42:

If this is true, then their souls need an abundance of prayers. This is not simply ignorance, this is a rejection to hear the evidence. This is an action taken to eliminate evidence. This is a closed heart, a rejection of the truth. I have high hopes for many of our Protestant brothers and sisters… but I have almost no hope for some of them too.

Yes, we do have to pray for them…we can still have hope for them, just like the Lord has hope for all mankind.

 

[Eden]

Tonks40:

Yes, we do have to pray for them…we can still have hope for them, just like the Lord has hope for all mankind.

Yes. They all still have time to come to, or in some cases, come back to the fullness of the faith.

 

[stella95]

I’ve met a number of rabidly anti-Catholic Protestant Americans, and I think that many of them are defensive about their beliefs because they can look at history and the world around them and see that the movement away from the Church has failed. The Protestant churches have split and split, the numbers of Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists are shrinking, disagreements within the groups are rife, and the vast majority of immigrants into the US are Mexicans, who are deeply Catholic.

Imo this also accounts for the fear of Catholicism in the media: The Church is huge; it has not split, it stands against things like abortion and divorce which the secularists adore, and it’s hard to predict: the same church that’s anti-abortion is also anti-capital punishment (thank God). I’d say for a secularist it’s the scariest thing out there, scarier even than militant Islam, because that form of Islam is clearly so far gone into cruelty that it’s easy to attack.

I converted to Catholicism from Islam because I believe the Nicene Creed and when I looked at history it was hard to come to any other conclusion than that Catholicism is Christianity. For me anything else would have been like buying polyester instead of silk when you’re in the market for silk.

 

[Alfie]

Julia1:

Alfie, if you are interested, I am a Moderator at this excellent board that defends against the lies of the Catholic Church…here is the address: (Removed as per CAF policy on Board Swarms )

For all you Catholics here, if you believe that your Church is the OTC and you ‘know’ Truth, I dare you to come to our board and defend your ‘Truth’…

After all, since your Church is THE TRUTH, it should stand up to any and all scructany, am I right? We’d be delighted to see you all there!

So come on over and ‘enlighten’ us ‘cursed’ Heretics…

I double dare you!

I see that the mods removed your link. I don’t think it has anything to do with swarming your board. I believe the mods are afraid that someone from this forum will discover the truth.

 

[Church_Militant]

Alfie:

I see that the mods removed your link. I don’t think it has anything to do with swarming your board. I believe the mods are afraid that someone from this forum will discover the truth.

THAT is BUNK! and you’d know that if you read things like THIS

The problem is that you are afraid to even go to a Mass. PLEASE Don’t tell us what we’re afraid of…

 

[mtr01]

Alfie:

I see that the mods removed your link. I don’t think it has anything to do with swarming your board. I believe the mods are afraid that someone from this forum will discover the truth.

You see, the thing is, we have found it, and it is being upheld by the Catholic Church, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of Truth.

 

[Batjacboy]

Julia1:

Alfie, if you are interested, I am a Moderator at this excellent board that defends against the lies of the Catholic Church…here is the address: (Removed as per CAF policy on Board Swarms )

For all you Catholics here, if you believe that your Church is the OTC and you ‘know’ Truth, I dare you to come to our board and defend your ‘Truth’…

After all, since your Church is THE TRUTH, it should stand up to any and all scructany, am I right? We’d be delighted to see you all there!

So come on over and ‘enlighten’ us ‘cursed’ Heretics…

I double dare you!

Think about it (just think about it): do you honestly think that you’ve come up with any anti-Catholic arguments that the Catholic Church has not easily refuted millions of times in the last 500 years?

 

[Eden]

Alfie:

I see that the mods removed your link. I don’t think it has anything to do with swarming your board. I believe the mods are afraid that someone from this forum will discover the truth.

Do you have anything of substance to add to these forums or are you here just to antagonize?

 

[Holly3278]

I’ll tell you why Protestants convert to Catholicism! Protestants convert to Catholicism because the Holy Spirit gets their attention and shows them the falseness of the heresy of Protestantism and shows them the absolute TRUTH of Catholicism and basically tells them to convert to Catholicism! That’s what happened to this former Protestant who is on her way to converting to the one true Church!

 

[montanaman]

Alfie:

I see that the mods removed your link. I don’t think it has anything to do with swarming your board. I believe the mods are afraid that someone from this forum will discover the truth.

Wow. That deserves some kind of award for complete lack of contact with reality.

 

[Holly3278]

montanaman:

Wow. That deserves some kind of award for complete lack of contact with reality.

I agree. How sad it is.

 

[Jeanette_L]

A few of the many reasons I just converted to Catholicism was that I found that the mean-spiritedness of my Evangelical bretheren posting here struck me as clearly UN-Christlike. I had to ask myself, who do I want to be associated with, and it was not those who were most UN-Christlike.

And then there was the obvious lack of logic and reason in the arguments used by the Fundamentalist/Evangelicals vs. Catholics. If anyone is serious about studying to show themselves approved, and then come on these boards and see the arguments, it is clear who comes out ahead, and it wasn’t the team I had always been on. The Biblical evidence alone is clearly in the corner of Catholicism, let alone the historical evidence, which the Evangelicals can’t even converse on because most have never bothered to seriously check it out. All the religious zeal in the world can’t cover up a bad and ill-informed argument.

So, people can get snotty and childish all day long, they can use all the rhetoric in the world, they can spew venom and scorn and mock people till the cows come home, but if their logic, reason and Biblical evidence don’t pass the test, in the end they lose.

It was a few more straws added to the camel’s back for me.

 

[Church_Militant]

Jeanette L:

A few of the many reasons I just converted to Catholicism was that I found that the mean-spiritedness of my Evangelical bretheren posting here struck me as clearly UN-Christlike. I had to ask myself, who do I want to be associated with, and it was not those who were most UN-Christlike.

And then there was the obvious lack of logic and reason in the arguments used by the Fundamentalist/Evangelicals vs. Catholics. If anyone is serious about studying to show themselves approved, and then come on these boards and see the arguments, it is clear who comes out ahead, and it wasn’t the team I had always been on. The Biblical evidence alone is clearly in the corner of Catholicism, let alone the historical evidence, which the Evangelicals can’t even converse on because most have never bothered to seriously

check it out. All the religious zeal in the world can’t cover up a bad and ill-informed argument.

So, people can get snotty and childish all day long, they can use all the rhetoric in the world, they can spew venom and scorn and mock people till the cows come home, but if their logic, reason and Biblical evidence don’t pass the test, in the end they lose.

It was a few more straws added to the camel’s back for me.Some of our guys can be like that too though…
I try REAL hard not to go there. I try to remember that they are repeating things they have been taught that are wrong…but it would be great alltogether if they would please just listen and stop with the meanness. That’s why I quit going to their forums.
Who needs that… if they want to know the truth let 'em come to us here and get the FACTS.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Church Militant:

Some of our guys can be like that too though…
I try REAL hard not to go there. I try to remember that they are repeating things they have been taught that are wrong…but it would be great alltogether if they would please just listen and stop with the meanness. That’s why I quit going to their forums.
Who needs that… if they want to know the truth let 'em come to us here and get teh FACTS.

Yes, you are right, and there are times when everyone gets overheated in debate, that’s going to happen. I get crazy when I see people trying to bait others with mocking and meaness and such. The only time we see such behavior in Scripture is from Satan. It makes you wonder what spirit is driving such behavior, it’s clearly not a Christian attribute.

That’s why I had such a problem with the Chick Tracts, even when I was not sympathetic to Catholicism. There was something evil about the look and tone, it was clearly not Truth presented in Love. All these things kept adding up for me, plus many, many, many more! Glad to be on this side of things!