Your interlocutors have little interest in the legal question, only the question of morality.
Scientific facts aren’t ‘believed’, they are either accepted or rejected. That the life of an individual human being begins at conception is a scientific fact, whatever anyone’s personal take on the issue may be. The Church simply recognizes this scientific fact and takes it to its moral conclusion.
In this old world there are many many different types of suffering… since the fall of Adam and Eve. The way to eliminate suffering shouldn’t be at the expense of another life… In the garden God told Eve she would conceive and bear children in pain… and doctors try to alleviate this pain but after the pain there is joy and as the children grow, oops more pain, esp in the teenage years… it’s a way of life. Let there be life–not death. I agree we need to support the mothers more. I’d be so willing to do that. Right now!
Talking about responsibility again… how many women would NOT have an abortion if the man responsible for half the life growing inside the woman would have stepped up and supported the woman emotionally and financially??? That’s why commitment in marriage is SO important. How many women are forced to say to themselves and to society, “Well, I’m not doing this on my own!” That is the saddest truth… What I’m asking I guess is WHO is making a woman’s life more difficult?
I really appreciate your wanting to make life easier for women who feel trapped by pregnancy. It is a real scary feeling to be so alone and responsible for another life for at least the next 18 years of your life… It seems like forever! NOT FAIR! I understand that and respect you for that. But, not at the cost of taking an innocent life…
And I don’t mean to sound so smug and all but the woman mostly had control or her body (we talked about the exceptions of rape and incest), but she HAD control of her body before she got pregnant. She could have said NO or she could have used birth control which is another thread altogether… prevent it if you don’t want it, but lots of women wanted it until their partner decided HE didn’t want it…
So you believe that a person’s right to choose trumps another person’s right to live.
I am not sure he agrees with me, but I agree with him.
You are right, the majority disagreeing with you does not matter as long as the Christ agrees with. But it is unlikely that a billions of people in the world are wrong and a minority is correct. Just because you think a fetus is a human being that does not mean the Christ will agree. The fetus does not become a human being until it acquires a human soul - you need to think about that before you start making life difficult for unfortunate and sometimes quite desperate women. In a couple of year we will know for sure what the Christ thinks of such actions.
On the Day of Judgment, you will be judged on your actions alone, any claims that those women whom people persecute, deserved it or that they brought it upon themselves will not count.
. Vast numbers of people (on both sides of the debate) have no belief in the idea of a “soul”. Your claim that abortion is fine is predicated on something unprovable and which is meaningless (thus irrelevant) to vast numbers of people. But EVERYONE accepts human offspring are human. No beliefs required for that. Your argument serves only the purpose of justifying abortion.
Every person faces judgement. Those who killed their offspring believing it was moral, those doing so knowing it was wrong, and those who did so realizing that they weren’t sure, and that they might be doing a great evil, but chose to risk it for what seemed a superior personal outcome. And everyone else will be judged too.
That does not make it untrue. As I said we will know exactly when the fetus acquires a soul when the Christ returns, but as far as a majority of the world is concerned the fetus does not have a soul at conception.
I contend there is no data available about what the majority of people believe about souls. Perhaps the majority reject the notion of souls entirely. In which case the majority judge the morality or immorality of abortion on an entirely different basis.
Your position is barbaric in that it subjects the disposition of human life to popular opinion. Your concern for the welfare of women is a ruse. It is no better than the dark and ignorant cultures of old when the majority thought of women, foreigners, and minorities as property. It seems you want the tyranny of opinion without it’s consequences.
Yes, those who don’t believe in the soul at all, also believe that a fetus does not have a soul at conception (that should be obvious). The point is that a majority in the world do not believe that a fetus is a human being at conception as well as in the first few months and maybe longer (on what basis is irrelevant, but I am giving you my rationale). Which is why abortion is allowed in a majority of countries in the world.I contend there is no data available about what the majority of people believe about souls. Perhaps the majority reject the notion of souls entirely. In which case the majority judge the morality or immorality of abortion on an entirely different basis.
These are two huge questionable claims. Please provide documented evidence for both (belief that fetus not human, the basis for allowing abortion).
Biologists can already state with absolute certainty that a human fetus is a human being. We don’t have to wait for Christ’s return. By then it will be too late to save the souls of those who were misleading others.
LOL…The point is that vast numbers of people (including all the non-religious who reject the notion of a soul…) acknowledge that it is not the presence of a soul that determine s the morality of the act to kill a human. Otherwise, for the non-religious, killing one’s offspring, say, just after birth (still no soul…), would be no one’s concern but the parents’. But no one asserts that!! Those people are at least being honest - they are not hiding behind a manufactured rationale.
Obviously they do not believe a fetus is a human being, otherwise it would be murder. That is the basis for allowing abortions.
Please don’t provide documented evidence about what ‘biologists’ state.
They may not define it as the presence of a soul being necessary for a human being (although I am), but they still don’t belief the fetus is a human being, which amounts to the same thing.
Ahhh…so now their argument is with science! Where does that leave the non-religious pro-life folks. At least science is on their side.