Why do we as Catholics believe that life begins at conception?

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‘Part of the human family’ does not mean a human being.
Yep, it really does. My sperm cell is not part of the human family, not my dog. My unborn surely is.
Now it is science that is supporting your cause? A few scientists can always be found to support your theories.
Established science hold that after conception, we have a new human.
A majority of scientists/doctors have no issue with abortion in the initial months of pregnancy.
A moral judgment on their part, not a judgment about the reality of the unborn.
There is no gambling here - it is a better knowledge of the nature of the soul. You don;t have to pretend anything.
Yep, you really do. You hold that the unborn, at least for a time, is less than human. No evidence for that. You choose not to “play it safe”, but to play for perceived self-interest.
But imposing that belief on others. denying them their rights, making their lives more difficult is a serious issue (I am not saying you personally are doing this, but others are).
We are discussing only what is moral. Requiring persons to live up to their responsibilities, even if that makes their life harder, it not in itself wrong.
 
Nobody is telling women to do that …
You don’t take much notice of the world around you, do you? Ever watch TV? Abortion is mostly avoided as the subject is too sensitive (? I wonder why ?) but even programs for young teens running in the early evening present sex between young unmarried people, with the partner varying on a semi-regular basis, as absolutely routine and without consequences.
 
You don’t take much notice of the world around you, do you? Ever watch TV? Abortion is mostly avoided as the subject is too sensitive (? I wonder why ?) but even programs for young teens running in the early evening present sex between young unmarried people, with the partner varying on a semi-regular basis, as absolutely routine and without consequences.
Exactly! Abortion is avoided as a subject. The other poster was saying people are going around telling young women to have abortions - that is just not true (although there is definitely too much vulgar sex on TV).
 
Yep, it really does. My sperm cell is not part of the human family, not my dog. My unborn surely is.
Again as I said before the human family biologically does not mean a human being with a soul of its own
Established science hold that after conception, we have a new human.
Nobody in science says that a single fertilized cell is a human being

We are discussing only what is moral. Requiring persons to live up to their responsibilities, even if that makes their life harder, it not in itself wrong.
We may be discussing what is moral and I have no problem with your view of what is moral - it is really your right. But nobody gave you the authority to require other persons to follow your morality. If you make other people’s life harder by trying to impose your morality on them, you will have to answer for your actions on the Day of Judgment.
 
Exactly! Abortion is avoided as a subject. The other poster was saying people are going around telling young women to have abortions - that is just not true (although there is definitely too much vulgar sex on TV).
Read it again. She said a little more than that…
 
Nobody in science says that a single fertilized cell is a human being
Nobody in science speaks of souls, so don’t mention that! Science holds that we humans have offspring that are also human. Science identifies no event beyond conception where we become human - because we already are! Some people seemed surprise by that.
But nobody gave you the authority to require other persons to follow your morality.
Nor do I seek it. Morality is the same for all of us. Better not to take grave risks.
 
Again as I said before the human family biologically does not mean a human being with a soul of its own
How many time do you think you will have to repeat it before we believe you?
Nobody in science says that a single fertilized cell is a human being
An absolutely false claim.
Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:

“Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote.”
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
“Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.”
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

“Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus.”
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]

“Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus.”
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]

“Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term ‘embryo’ is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy.”
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]

“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism… At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun… The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life.”
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

“I would say that among most scientists, the word ‘embryo’ includes the time from after fertilization…”
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel – Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]

“The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”
[Sadler, T.W. Langman’s Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]
We may be discussing what is moral and I have no problem with your view of what is moral - it is really your right. But nobody gave you the authority to require other persons to follow your morality. If you make other people’s life harder by trying to impose your morality on them, you will have to answer for your actions on the Day of Judgment.
Every law imposes a morality. So, why do you get to impose your morality and I don’t?

Sometimes that morality is based on reality, other times not. Why are you, or anyone, owed an easy life?
 
How many time do you think you will have to repeat it before we believe you?
Of course you will not believe me because it costs you nothing to believe otherwise. But if someone like the Christ says it even once, then you will have no choice but to believe. And that will have happen very soon - maybe you can believe that.
Every law imposes a morality. So, why do you get to impose your morality and I don’t?

Sometimes that morality is based on reality, other times not. Why are you, or anyone, owed an easy life?
I don’t impose my morality on you or anyone else. You don’t have to do anything you don’t believe is right - you can do with yourself exactly what you believe (just leave other people alone).

Nobody is owed an easy life, definitely not me (By the way, none of this affects me personally - I am male and pretty old). But if anyone makes someone else’s life harder than it already is, by their actions, then they are responsible for it. For such actions, they will have to answer on the Day of Judgment.
 
But if anyone makes someone else’s life harder than it already is, by their actions, then they are responsible for it. For such actions, they will have to answer on the Day of Judgment.
I did not know that Hindus believed there was a Day of Judgment.

Catholics will have a much more difficult time on the Day of Judgment if we fail to warn people that abortion is a sin, and that human life must be protected from conception to natural death.
 
I did not know that Hindus believed there was a Day of Judgment.

Catholics will have a much more difficult time on the Day of Judgment if we fail to warn people that abortion is a sin, and that human life must be protected from conception to natural death.
Actually Hindus don’t believe in a Day of Judgment. I believe in Judgment when the Christ returns, but I don’t believe it will be the end of world or that half the people (or more) will be sent to hell.

But when the Christ returns people will have to answer for their actions (whether you call it a Day of Judgment or something else). The main actions that we have to answer for, are those that hurt other people (as well as those that do not help people per Matthew 25:35-40)

Warning people is perfectly fine, but taking actions to deny the women their rights, making it hard or impossible to exercise their rights, those actions will have to be answered for.
 
Actually Hindus don’t believe in a Day of Judgment. I believe in Judgment when the Christ returns, but I don’t believe it will be the end of world or that half the people (or more) will be sent to hell.

But when the Christ returns people will have to answer for their actions (whether you call it a Day of Judgment or something else). The main actions that we have to answer for, are those that hurt other people (as well as those that do not help people per Matthew 25:35-40)

Warning people is perfectly fine, but taking actions to deny the women their rights, making it hard or impossible to exercise their rights, those actions will have to be answered for.
So abortionists will be greatly rewarded for the number of unborn children they have killed? I don’t think that particular precept is in the holy scripture.
 
So abortionists will be greatly rewarded for the number of unborn children they have killed? I don’t think that particular precept is in the holy scripture.
Holy scripture does not mention abortion - it only talks about killing of humans after birth.

Those who help unfortunate women at great risk to their life and reputation, have nothing to fear from the Christ’s judgment. This is very similar to the Pope’s remarks regarding Emma Bonino.

You personally can choose to believe what you want - nobody is asking you to do anything against your beliefs, just don’t impose your beliefs on others.
 
Nobody in science says that a single fertilized cell is a human being
You are wrong.
Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo development) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).
— Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.
The life cycle of mammals begins when a sperm enters an egg.
— Okada et al., A role for the elongator complex in zygotic paternal genome demethylation, NATURE 463:554 (Jan. 28, 2010)
Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus.
— Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146
Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term ‘embryo’ is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy.
— Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160
Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression ‘fertilized ovum’ refers to the zygote.
— Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1
Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed… The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity.
— O’Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists “pre-embryo” among “discarded and replaced terms” in modern embryology, describing it as “ill-defined and inaccurate” (p. 12)

The Official Senate report on Senate Bill 158, the “Human Life Bill,” summarized the issue this way:
Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings.
Whoever told you that “nobody in science says that a single fertilized cell is a human being” has absolutely no knowledge of what the scientific consensus is on the issue. :confused:
 
Warning people is perfectly fine, but taking actions to deny the women their rights, making it hard or impossible to exercise their rights, those actions will have to be answered for.
We know where the legal right to destroy one’s offspring comes from, but from where does the moral right arise? What moral principle provides a woman with the right to kill her unborn child?

Ender
 
We know where the legal right to destroy one’s offspring comes from, but from where does the moral right arise? What moral principle provides a woman with the right to kill her unborn child?

Ender
The woman has the right to control her body and has the right to decide what is inside her own body. She is not killing anyone, she is asking that a fetus (which is not yet a human being) be removed from her own body.

Of course some people will say that the body does not belong to the woman and belongs to God (or something like that). In either case, it is not anyone else’s, God is quite capable of taking care of his interests, so all these other people should just mind their own business.

Until the Christ returns (which will be very soon) we can talk about this in circles for ever. But in the meantime those people who continue to make this unfortunate woman’s life miserable and difficult and harder than it already is, will have to answer to the Christ for their actions when he is here.
 
The woman has the right to control her body and has the right to decide what is inside her own body. She is not killing anyone, she is asking that a fetus (which is not yet a human being) be removed from her own body.
Please cite appropriate literature that states that the child growing in her womb is “her” body. She does not have the right to murder.
Of course some people will say that the body does not belong to the woman and belongs to God (or something like that). In either case, it is not anyone else’s, God is quite capable of taking care of his interests, so all these other people should just mind their own business.
Until the Christ returns (which will be very soon) we can talk about this in circles for ever. But in the meantime those people who continue to make this unfortunate woman’s life miserable and difficult and harder than it already is, will have to answer to the Christ for their actions when he is here.
 
Please cite appropriate literature that states that the child growing in her womb is “her” body. She does not have the right to murder.
Of course it is the woman’s body - what literature do we need for that? Whether you consider the fetus part of the body or not, the woman has a right to decide what is inside her own body and she has decided to ask that the fetus in her body be removed. She will not be murdering anyone, just asking that her own body be freed from the presence of the fetus inside it.

To repeat:

Of course some people will say that the body does not belong to the woman and belongs to God (or something like that). In either case, it is not anyone else’s, God is quite capable of taking care of his interests, so all these other people should just mind their own business.

Until the Christ returns (which will be very soon) we can talk about this in circles for ever. But in the meantime those people who continue to make this unfortunate woman’s life miserable and difficult and harder than it already is, will have to answer to the Christ for their actions when he is here.
 
wonders if openmind77 has him on ignore. :confused:

I just stated multiple sources that verify that a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being. :confused:
 
wonders if openmind77 has him on ignore. :confused:

I just stated multiple sources that verify that a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being. :confused:
It depends on how you define a human being - I define a human being as a person who has a human body plus a human soul.

There are no sources that can verify the presence of a soul - only someone like the Christ can say whether the fetus has a human soul. So I suggest you wait for him to verify instead of reading these sources.

Until such a verification by the Christ, the woman has a right to request that the fetus inside her body be removed. Anyone who denies the woman her right or makes her life miserable/harder will have to answer for their actions to the Christ.
 
Warning people is perfectly fine, but taking actions to deny the women their rights, making it hard or impossible to exercise their rights, those actions will have to be answered for.
I agree. We are called to defend the rights and dignitity of all human beings, even those who have not yet been born.

8Open your mouth for the mute, For the rights of all the unfortunate. 9Open your mouth, judge righteously, And defend the rights of the afflicted and needy. Proverbs 31:8

There is none so voiceless and unfortunate as the helpless baby butchered in the mother’s womb.

Fortunately, such butchery is not a “right” for anyone, so doing all we can to prevent it will not interfere with anyone’s “rights”.
 
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