Why do we as Catholics believe that life begins at conception?

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(Btw, this is besides the point, but I don’t believe suicide is illegal in most states of the US).
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Another erroneous belief of yours. Out of fifty states only six allow assisted suicide. So most don’t allow it. When Jesus comes He will come to judge how we treat the least among us. When He said to allow the children to come to Him He was not excluding the preborn. Those who have promoted this evil will have no where to hide. They will not be able to say but they weren’t human with them standing before them murdered by the lie that they weren’t persons.

If there was no life, there would be no growth. If left alone that human life would grow. Life exist from conception. That a soul is infused at conception only make sense. A soul is given to all life. All souls are not immortal, as the souls of plants and animals but the human soul is.
Many scripture verses refer to the soul being created way before birth. John leapt in his mother’s womb at the presence of Jesus.
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the LORD called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.
Psalm 139:15
My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
 
I meant the intrusion of other persons who would stop the woman from terminating her pregnancy. The fetus is not intruding of course, but it is still not a person or a child, until probably a few days or weeks before birth.
You still haven’t explained how this “non-person” can move and otherwise act in a similar manner as a baby. In fact these “non-persons” can move so much as to let third parties know of their existence. I am still many weeks away from my due date, and yet you can watch the child move inside my body with just your eyes, or if you were blind, you could feel the movement with just your hand.

You aren’t consistent. First you insisted that ensoulment didn’t occur until 6 months, then you had to clarify that unless that baby was born early, and now you say not until a few days before birth? So you are saying that between two Human offspring of the same age and development, one will have a soul and another will not, merely based on the body’s location or its proximity of it’s birth?
 
Another erroneous belief of yours. Out of fifty states only six allow assisted suicide. So most don’t allow it.
I am curious to know the source of this. It was my understanding that historically, various states listed the act as a felony, but obviously it is impossible to enforce (when the attempt is successful). By 1963, six states still considered attempted suicide a crime (North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma, which repealed its law in 1976). By the early 1990s only two U.S. states still listed suicide as a crime, and these have since removed that classification.

It is really more of a public health problem.

If there was no life, there would be no growth. If left alone that human life would grow. Life exist from conception. That a soul is infused at conception only make sense. A soul is given to all life. All souls are not immortal, as the souls of plants and animals but the human soul is.

Many scripture verses refer to the soul being created way before birth. John leapt in his mother’s womb at the presence of Jesus.
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the LORD called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.
Psalm 139:15
My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.

Much Less Than OpenMinded One is willing to concede that the soul might enter the body before birth, but has suggested that this is not a problem, since the soul liberated by an abortion can just reincarnate into another body. :rolleyes:
 
You believe Christ will return?

Please explain this as a Hindu. :confused:
Hindus believe that Sons of God or Avatars incarnate periodically on earth - there have been many in the past and there will be more in the future. I believe that Jesus was one of these Avatars (many Hindus also believe this but many others don’t). Since he is such an Avatar, if he said he will return, I am sure he will.

Of course, many others believe that that time is near and so do I.

Catholics may believe that the Christ will agree with all the dogma that the Church has developed over the years, but I am afraid this is not true.

One of the issues that the Christ will address and correct are the beliefs regarding abortion. But those who hurt other people and make their lives more difficult than they already are (in this case the women who seek termination) will have to answer for their actions, regardless of whatever the Christ teaches about abortion.
 
…Catholics may believe that the Christ will agree with all the dogma that the Church has developed over the years, but I am afraid this is not true….
I’m sure you meant to say “I *believe *this is not true…”.

What did Christ do that persuades you he is an Avatar? Maybe he was just a notable historical figure?
 
I’m sure you meant to say “I *believe *this is not true…”.

What did Christ do that persuades you he is an Avatar? Maybe he was just a notable historical figure?
Only a true avatar could have performed all the miracles that Jesus did, a notable person just could not do that. Of course it helps that all his teachings are also deep and profound and really can not be argued with.

The problem is that others have added other stuff on top of those teachings, which he will need to correct when he returns. Abortion will be one issue that he will clarify. The fact is that the soul destined for the fetus that gets terminated, is still in front of the queue to be born next time an opportunity presents itself, and it could be with the same mother. So it is really just a postponement as far as that soul is concerned.
 
Only a true avatar could have performed all the miracles that Jesus did, a notable person just could not do that. Of course it helps that all his teachings are also deep and profound and really can not be argued with.
How do you really know he performed any miracles at all? All we have is old Scriptures handed down over 2000 years. Yet you believe they are accurate; You believe the person of Jesus Christ was capable of and did perform miracles. Why do you believe this?

PS: Did Jesus teach re-incarnation?
 
openmind77;13787781 said:
(Btw, this is besides the point, but I don’t believe suicide is illegal in most states of the US).
Another erroneous belief of yours. Out of fifty states only six allow assisted suicide. So most don’t allow it.

Assisted suicide and suicide are two different things.

Do any states actually make suicide itself illegal? Attempted suicide, I imagine, otherwise what exactly can the law do about a successful suicide?
 
Hindus believe that Sons of God or Avatars incarnate periodically on earth
When these Sons of God become incarnate, do Hindu’s believe that what they teach is truth … and that they do not teach error nor can they be inconsistent in their teaching?

Curious too, who is the most recent Sons of God to become incarnate?
 
When these Sons of God become incarnate, do Hindu’s believe that what they teach is truth … and that they do not teach error nor can they be inconsistent in their teaching?

Curious too, who is the most recent Sons of God to become incarnate?
I don’t believe that Jesus taught any errors or was inconsistent in anything that he said.

As I said before, he never mentioned abortion (or contraception) - the beliefs regarding these are just misinterpretations by his followers which he will correct when he returns.

But he did mention clearly the criteria for judgment Matthew 25:35-40 - persecution of poor women is clearly something that will be judged under this criteria.

There have been no Sons of God like Jesus incarnated in the last 2000 years.
 
I don’t believe that Jesus taught any errors or was inconsistent in anything that he said.

As I said before, he never mentioned abortion (or contraception) - the beliefs regarding these are just misinterpretations by his followers which he will correct when he returns.

But he did mention clearly the criteria for judgment Matthew 25:35-40 - persecution of poor women is clearly something that will be judged under this criteria.

There have been no Sons of God like Jesus incarnated in the last 2000 years.
He also mentioned clearly the teaching authority conferred on the Church he established. You ignore that conveniently. He never mentioned reincarnation, yet you’ve introduced that idea.

Your “positions” on this thread are all held as matters of “convenience” - they serve the pro abortion bent.
 
Only a true avatar could have performed all the miracles that Jesus did, a notable person just could not do that. Of course it helps that all his teachings are also deep and profound and really can not be argued with.

The problem is that others have added other stuff on top of those teachings, which he will need to correct when he returns. Abortion will be one issue that he will clarify. The fact is that the soul destined for the fetus that gets terminated, is still in front of the queue to be born next time an opportunity presents itself, and it could be with the same mother. So it is really just a postponement as far as that soul is concerned.
Nobody has added other stuff on top of any teachings. 🤷 Jesus was clear that people follow the Ten Commandments. You know, one of which is “You shall not kill”?
 
I am curious to know the source of this. It was my understanding that historically, various states listed the act as a felony, but obviously it is impossible to enforce (when the attempt is successful). By 1963, six states still considered attempted suicide a crime (North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma, which repealed its law in 1976). By the early 1990s only two U.S. states still listed suicide as a crime, and these have since removed that classification.

It is really more of a public health problem.

If there was no life, there would be no growth. If left alone that human life would grow. Life exist from conception. That a soul is infused at conception only make sense. A soul is given to all life. All souls are not immortal, as the souls of plants and animals but the human soul is.

Many scripture verses refer to the soul being created way before birth. John leapt in his mother’s womb at the presence of Jesus.
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the LORD called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.
Psalm 139:15
My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.

Much Less Than OpenMinded One is willing to concede that the soul might enter the body before birth, but has suggested that this is not a problem, since the soul liberated by an abortion can just reincarnate into another body. :rolleyes:
I believe you over looked assisted suicide that is a dr. or someone else assisting.
 
Only a true avatar could have performed all the miracles that Jesus did, a notable person just could not do that. Of course it helps that all his teachings are also deep and profound and really can not be argued with.

The problem is that others have added other stuff on top of those teachings, which he will need to correct when he returns. Abortion will be one issue that he will clarify. The fact is that the soul destined for the fetus that gets terminated, is still in front of the queue to be born next time an opportunity presents itself, and it could be with the same mother. So it is really just a postponement as far as that soul is concerned.
You have over looked this important teaching of Jesus
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
 
I don’t believe that Jesus taught any errors or was inconsistent in anything that he said.

As I said before, he never mentioned abortion (or contraception) - the beliefs regarding these are just misinterpretations by his followers which he will correct when he returns.

But he did mention clearly the criteria for judgment Matthew 25:35-40 - persecution of poor women is clearly something that will be judged under this criteria.

There have been no Sons of God like Jesus incarnated in the last 2000 years.
Jesus upheld the commandments one of which is thou shalt not kill. He will certainly correct your wrong idea that there is no life to kill. You shouldn’t stop at forty go on to forty five
40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

By killing His children in the womb you are doing it to Him. You will reap eternal punishment.
 
He also mentioned clearly the teaching authority conferred on the Church he established. You ignore that conveniently. He never mentioned reincarnation, yet you’ve introduced that idea.

Your “positions” on this thread are all held as matters of “convenience” - they serve the pro abortion bent.
I realize he gave the Church the authority to teach. Unfortunately this authority does not guarantee that it will be correct in all its teachings.

The theory of reincarnation predates Jesus and is not a recent introduction (Hinduism has been around thousands of years before Jesus). However, I am not sure that he never mentioned it. There are stories that he did mention, but that all records of it were expunged at the Council of Nicea - but whether it was or not, we will know the truth regarding this too when he returns - I wouldn’t be too sure that he will just support the Church’s position regarding reincarnation either.

I am not sure how my position regarding abortion rights, is in any way ‘convenient’ for me. I am male and fairly old - I doubt if I personally would be affected by the state of abortion rights.

However, it is far more ‘convenient’ to be ‘pro-life’ - they get to preach to people, they get to feel morally superior, they can yell and harass people while feeling virtuous, they can even believe that this will gain them brownie points in heaven - and all this at zero cost to themselves. I would say for someone like me, it would be very advantageous and ‘convenient’ to be ‘pro-life’. There is absolutely no advantage to being for abortion rights, unless you need an abortion yourself.
 
I realize he gave the Church the authority to teach. Unfortunately this authority does not guarantee that it will be correct in all its teachings.
But the abortion teaching is of the highest standard of teaching. If teaching authority means anything, it applies here. If it does not apply here, then there is NO teaching authority, and if there is none, there is no basis to believe anything else in Scriptures, including miracles, which you chose to accept.
There is absolutely no advantage to being for abortion rights, unless you need an abortion yourself.
I don’t pretend to understand the motivation for your bent. Only the manner in which you seek to justify it.
 
I realize he gave the Church the authority to teach. Unfortunately this authority does not guarantee that it will be correct in all its teachings.
Did you miss Jesus saying
The teachings are correct for this and also Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. If there were incorrect teachings, the gates of hell would prevail.
[/QUOTE]
 
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