Why do you feel socialism is bad?

[Brendan]

For Jesus, helping the poor and the outcast is not optional: it is the essence of what it means to love God.

Correct. Now ask yourself, is helping the poor and the outcast a personal responsibility, that we give willingly out of our own personal wealth.

Or does Christ ask us to take wealth from others to give to the poor.

Does Christ desire us to look to the Cesear for security, or to Christ and His Church?

All socialism offers is forced charity, which really isn’t charity at all, there is no Caritas’ in forcing someone to give to the poor at the threat of jail.

A great example is from Mother Theresa. When a sister came to her with a concern about if a new mission would have enough cash to start. Mother Theresa’s response was “Don’t worry about money, God has plenty of that!”

Mother Angelica founded EWTN with the same philosophy. She never even kept a budget, as she felt that would be placing limits on God’s generosity.

We need to look at social services in the same way, we should trust the Church to run it, and trust God to finance it.

 

[timcfc]

Correct. Now ask yourself, is helping the poor and the outcast a personal responsibility, that we give willingly out of our own personal wealth.

**Or does Christ ask us to take wealth from others to give to the poor. **

Does Christ desire us to look to the Cesear for security, or to Christ and His Church?

All socialism offers is forced charity, which really isn’t charity at all, there is no Caritas’ in forcing someone to give to the poor at the threat of jail.

A great example is from Mother Theresa. When a sister came to her with a concern about if a new mission would have enough cash to start. Mother Theresa’s response was “Don’t worry about money, God has plenty of that!”

Mother Angelica founded EWTN with the same philosophy. She never even kept a budget, as she felt that would be placing limits on God’s generosity.

We need to look at social services in the same way, we should trust the Church to run it, and trust God to finance it.

Jesus taught us to be faithful and generous in our giving back to God and giving to other’s who are in need.
Jesus never said that it was a sin to be wealthy, but He did teach that having wealth would make it very difficulty for people to follow Him. The wealthy may become too attached to their possessions and if we are to follow Jesus, nothing can be more important to us than He is. To prove his point, one very wealthy man who had kept all the other commandments came to Jesus and asked Him how to have eternal life. Jesus replied, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” The man went away sad because he could not part with all of His wealth. When he saw this, Jesus said to His Disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

In my opinion it is hard for someone who is a true follower of Jesus to say that less fortunate than people than ourselves should not have the same healthcare as everyone else.Why should people who have the most money get the better service,healthcare should be available to ALL,not just the wealthy few.
Would i be right in saying that most Catholics on here would support the Republican party?

 

[fish90]

Jesus taught us to be faithful and generous in our giving back to God and giving to other’s who are in need.
Jesus never said that it was a sin to be wealthy, but He did teach that having wealth would make it very difficulty for people to follow Him. The wealthy may become too attached to their possessions and if we are to follow Jesus, nothing can be more important to us than He is. To prove his point, one very wealthy man who had kept all the other commandments came to Jesus and asked Him how to have eternal life. Jesus replied, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” The man went away sad because he could not part with all of His wealth. When he saw this, Jesus said to His Disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

In my opinion it is hard for someone who is a true follower of Jesus to say that less fortunate than people than ourselves should not have the same healthcare as everyone else.Why should people who have the most money get the better service,healthcare should be available to ALL,not just the wealthy few.
Would i be right in saying that most Catholics on here would support the Republican party?

God never advocated a freeloader society. You must work for what you get.

The Republican Party wants health care reform, yet they do not believe socialism is the answer.

Catholics for the most part in this country still adhere to the Democratic Party, but have been turning more Republican.

The problem with what you advocate is that everybody gets poor health care. Canada is a great example of how socialized medicine works.

Great American comedy about socialism.
youtube.com/user/StevenCrowder
youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

Best Wishes

 

[dmelosi]

Jesus taught us to be faithful and generous in our giving back to God and giving to other’s who are in need.
Jesus never said that it was a sin to be wealthy, but He did teach that having wealth would make it very difficulty for people to follow Him. The wealthy may become too attached to their possessions and if we are to follow Jesus, nothing can be more important to us than He is. To prove his point, one very wealthy man who had kept all the other commandments came to Jesus and asked Him how to have eternal life. Jesus replied, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” The man went away sad because he could not part with all of His wealth. When he saw this, Jesus said to His Disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

In my opinion it is hard for someone who is a true follower of Jesus to say that less fortunate than people than ourselves should not have the same healthcare as everyone else.Why should people who have the most money get the better service,healthcare should be available to ALL,not just the wealthy few.
Would i be right in saying that most Catholics on here would support the Republican party?

This would be a more true statement here…

Most people on here will vote what the Catholic church teaches, the party has nothing to do for it for most.

 

[exoflare]

"timcfc:

By reading the bible you will see that Jesus would want ALL his people to have access to healthcare not just those who could afford it.

Can you find the part in the Bible where Jesus tells us to put our healthcare in the hands of a corrupt, bloated government bureaucracy?

I’m still waiting…

 

[po18guy]

Hello there! I’m a supporter of the United States becoming a socialist democracy, and having systems such as socialized health care.

Looking over this forum, most (if not all) of the members are strongly anti-socialist. Why?

Note: I do understand that abortion is evil if not done for (both physical and mental) medicinal reasons. If abortion is not funded, at all, would you be in favor of it?

The burden of proof is upon you to provide an example of socialism that is both economically viable and which respects human life at all of its stages. You ask for a utopia which does not and cannot exist.

 

[po18guy]

Would i be right in saying that most Catholics on here would support the Republican party?

Health care does not matter if you are aborted or euthanized. Is it safe to say that you are closely aligned with the democrat party? I vote life. Period.

 

[Scout1441]

The Church has long recognized the temptation of the state to take control of a nation’s economy thus making its citizens dependent upon it rather than themselves. This robs a people of personal freedom and initiative. In an era when there was much social change, notably the popular appeal of Communism to the working class, Pope Leo XIII released his encyclical Rerum Novarum. In this Encyclical, Pope Leo XIII addresses two main concerns: the atheistic philosophy of Communism and the exploitation and dire poverty of workers stemming from the excesses of Capitalism in the burgeoning Industrial Revolution. In Rerum Novarum he argued for the recognition of human dignity; the protection of basic economic and political rights, including the right to a just wage and the development of guilds; the right to private property; the rights of labor; and justice for the common good.

In short, Pope Leo XIII rejected Communism and at the same time rejected the exploitative nature of Capitalism. To quote Leo: “It is not right for either the citizen or the family to be absorbed by the state; it is proper that the individual and the family be permitted to retain their freedom of action so far as possible without jeopardizing the common good.”

Since the release of Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical in 1891, Catholic Social Thought has been developed by adding to Rerum Novarum

Where Pope Leo XIII expressed concern for the plight of the working class and the political forces that were shaping the modern world, Pope Pius XI proposed the principle of subsidiarity in his 1931 encyclical Quadragesimo Anno. In it he stated, “It is a fundamental principle of social philosophy, fixed and unchangeable, that one should not withdraw from individuals and commit to the community what the people can accomplish by their own enterprise and industry…”

 

[peary1]

Hello there! I’m a supporter of the United States becoming a socialist democracy, and having systems such as socialized health care.Looking over this forum, most (if not all) of the members are strongly anti-socialist. Why?

The late Pope John Paul II, writing in Centesimus Annus says, “the fundamental error of socialism is anthropological in nature,” because socialism maintains, “that the good of the individual can be realized without reference to his free choice.”

Socialism is an attractive political and social philosophy because its model is the family, a situation in which each gives according to his ability and receives according to his need—and it works. Unfortunately, the dynamics of family life cannot be replicated at the level of society. It is also not sustainable because sooner or later, the money runs out and the country sooner or later implodes into dictatorship unless it radically alters itself.

Convertingf the U.S. into a socialist democracy is impossible because our entire history is based on a capitalist system. Do you actually think that Americans are going to work only to see more than half of their paychecks go to those who don’t? You’ve GOT to be kidding me!!

There is nothing inherently wrong with our healthcare system. What needs to be dealt with is bringing the pricing down and making sure insurance companies don’t deny pre-conditions. The way it is set up now, states have maybe one or two insurance companies that take care of the whole state. There needs to be more competition. Let there be more choices for citizens, and the prices will come down.

Destroying our healthcare system because 20-30 million people out of 300 million don’t have medical insurance is absolutely unconscienable! People, of course, should not be denied medical insurance. If you are let go from a company which has provided medical insurance to you, you should still be covered up to 120 days until you get another job. Whether this be by the previous employer or by the government is acceptable to me. But no one is ever denied medical procedures. You can be in this country illegally; yet, you can walk into any hospital and it will take care of you. Who pays? The government with our money.

No, socialism will not work here. It takes our freedom of choice away. Why do you think the United States was established in the first place?

 

[timcfc]

God never advocated a freeloader society. You must work for what you get.

The Republican Party wants health care reform, yet they do not believe socialism is the answer.

Catholics for the most part in this country still adhere to the Democratic Party, but have been turning more Republican.

The problem with what you advocate is that everybody gets poor health care. Canada is a great example of how socialized medicine works.
Great American comedy about socialism.
youtube.com/user/StevenCrowder
youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

Best Wishes

Actually you are wrong,if everyone gets poor treatment then the US should be at the top of this list,not 37th. This list is taken from the World Health Organisation

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland

I’m still waiting…

Well it looks like you are going against the the instructions of the US church on this one

In our Catholic tradition, health care is a basic human right. Access to health care should not depend on where a person works, how much a family earns, or where a person lives. Instead, every person, created in the image and likeness of God, has a right to life and to those things necessary to sustain life, including affordable, quality health care. This teaching is rooted in the biblical call to heal the sick and to serve “the least of these,” our concern for human life and dignity, and the principle of the common good. Unfortunately, tens of millions of Americans do not have health insurance. According to the Catholic bishops of the United States, the current health care system is in need of fundamental reform.

Health care does not matter if you are aborted or euthanized. Is it safe to say that you are closely aligned with the democrat party? I vote life. Period.

Im not from the US im from the UK. Even the Conservatives in the UK would never dream of getting rid of our NHS,if they tried to do that nobody would vote for them.
Also why do you say you vote life,the Republican party were in office for 8 years and never made abortion illegal,so whats the difference between them or the democrats?
To make my position clear i am against abortion.

 

[John21652]

***The big problem i have is that you say Margaret Thatcher came and cleaned up the mess.Well in Scotland she didnt clean up a mess,she made a complete mess of the whole country,poverty and unemployment was rife. ***As long as the south east of England prospered Maggie didnt really care for anyone else.
Britain is very different to the US,we have a healthcare system,that is not perfect but is far better than 30 million Americans having none.
On a Catholic forum i find it very hard to read that fellow Catholics do not believe in Socialised medicine.By reading the bible you will see that Jesus would want ALL his people to have access to healthcare not just those who could afford it.

Jesus spoke remarkably often about wealth and poverty. To the poor he said, “Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God,” (Luke’s version). To the rich he said, “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,” and “go, sell what you have, and give to the poor.” When the rich turned away from him because they couldn’t follow his command he observed, “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

For Jesus, helping the poor and the outcast is not optional: it is the essence of what it means to love God. In the parable of the last judgement he welcomes the righteous into heaven saying, “I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.” When the righteous answered that they didn’t recall doing any of these things, he said, “as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.”

margaret Thatcher did indeed clean up the mess created by the duopoly of a Labor government working hqand in hand with trade union monopoly. Yes, unemployment did rise under Thatcher, but that’s because she ruthlessly sold off, or shut down government owned and loss making enterprises like certain scottish coal mines, shipyards and manufacturing industries. did you know that 29 million days were lost to strikes in 1979, so out of control were the trade unions. When Thatcher came to power fewer people in Scotland owned their own homes than in Communist Poland. Today, homeownership is enjoyed by around seventy percent of Scotland’s population. Thatcher broke the power of the unions through unemployment and only then did Great Britain prosper. Thatcher then deregulated the financial sector and that is why you think the south east of the country prospered. zIt did, because capital and labour were frred up and flocked to where the profitable markets were.

Thatcher killed off the destructive forces of socialism in Britain and played a large hand in shoreing up Ronald Raegan’s stance against communism,

 

[fish90]

Actually you are wrong,if everyone gets poor treatment then the US should be at the top of this list,not 37th. This list is taken from the World Health Organisation

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland

Well it looks like you are going against the the instructions of the US church on this one

In our Catholic tradition, health care is a basic human right. Access to health care should not depend on where a person works, how much a family earns, or where a person lives. Instead, every person, created in the image and likeness of God, has a right to life and to those things necessary to sustain life, including affordable, quality health care. This teaching is rooted in the biblical call to heal the sick and to serve “the least of these,” our concern for human life and dignity, and the principle of the common good. Unfortunately, tens of millions of Americans do not have health insurance. According to the Catholic bishops of the United States, the current health care system is in need of fundamental reform.

Im not from the US im from the UK. Even the Conservatives in the UK would never dream of getting rid of our NHS,if they tried to do that nobody would vote for them.
Also why do you say you vote life,the Republican party were in office for 8 years and never made abortion illegal,so whats the difference between them or the democrats?
To make my position clear i am against abortion.

Respectfully, you are comparing apples and oranges. The health care systems of France and the United States are very different. The U.S. has 330 million people while France has roughly 65 million. What does this list even measure?

The bishops have advocated for universal access not universal health care. The way to get to universal access for everybody is up to the prudential decision of the laity.

The Bush administration has issued Pro-life laws. “Restrictions” on embryonic stem cell research were acceptable while the ban on late term abortion was very commendable. You have to understand that the opposition to abortion is only starting to take hold on Americans today after the election of Obama.

Also, the Republicans seem to be the only party that is Pro-Life.

 

[humblelurker]

timcfc stated:

Well in that case should the communities not be looking after the people who cannot afford healthcare?

Yes, so what is your point?

timcfc stated:

The problem with your argument is that in the US only the people who can afford it can have healthcare, this is wrong.

All due respect, you are wrong as wabrams pointed out:

There is a difference between health insurance and health care. No one in the US is denied healthcare; to do so is illegal.

Also you didn’t answer my question. Do you believe the Church’s stand on collectivisms and subsidiarity? Even in health care?

 

[humblelurker]

timcfc, all due respect:
Christ never endorsed “socialism.” Socialism is a recent invention from the stand point of the Catholic Church, and all of Christianity for that matter. You are reading into scripture your own modern sentiments.

 

[humblelurker]

timcfc stated:

Well in that case should the communities not be looking after the people who cannot afford healthcare?

We should be taking care of people in our communities within a subsidiarity system and not in an collectivism. Those who can take care of themselves should do so and help others; otherwise it is a form of sloth.

 

[cecilia97]

Britain is very different to the US,we have a healthcare system,that is not perfect but is far better than 30 million Americans having none.

This is misinformation. Those 30 million Americans (and there is great debate about the number…did you know that may include many illegal immigrants?) do indeed have HEALTH CARE. They can go to doctors and pay full price, they can go to local or charity clinics, or they can go to emergency rooms and receive FREE treatment.

What they don’t have is private health INSURANCE. And until the very recently in US history, many people did just fine without health insurance.

 

[humblelurker]

I’m leaving for the Christmas Holiday, and I will be back next week. Merry Christmas everyone, and have a blessed holiday.

 

[po18guy]

…the World Health Organisation

Ah, there’s the problem!

Im not from the US im from the UK. Even the Conservatives in the UK would never dream of getting rid of our NHS,if they tried to do that nobody would vote for them.

Again, England is more socialist than America, so its subjects demand more from government. We are catching up to you, though. Do a little research on the Canadian system. Many of them fear not being able to come to America for prompt health care now.

Also why do you say you vote life,the Republican party were in office for 8 years and never made abortion illegal,so whats the difference between them or the democrats?

We are living under the tyranny of a supreme court which has been activist since the 1960s. Legalized abortion is not a law in the US - it is a binding court decision.

The Republican party has major flaws, but let’s examine what it has done recently: For 8 years, the Republican President nominated, and the Republican dominated Senate confirmed, Supreme Court justices who were primarily Catholic, and who were more strict constitutional constructionist than activist in nature. She’s a big ship and takes time to turn around. That is actually a safeguard against the socialist wave now striking the beaches.

But, the tide has turned and America is becoming intoxicated by public abortion, and is now exporting it worldwide. Our nation will pay heavily for this evil.

 

[po18guy]

timcfc, all due respect:
Christ never endorsed “socialism.” Socialism is a recent invention from the stand point of the Catholic Church, and all of Christianity for that matter. You are reading into scripture your own modern sentiments.

Amen! And a blessed Christmas season and peaceful new year to you, and to all.

 

[po18guy]

How far we have fallen! Catholic Democratic President John F. Kennedy famously stated “Ask not, what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country”.

Modernism rejects this and demands what others may do for it.