Why God didn't desire a universe without evil?

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Seems it was before the fall of the angels. Seems it was before the fall pf Adam.
 
STT said:
Let me change my question to this one: Why God didn’t only desire universes without evil?
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God did make the world, the Universe, “good”. And without evil.

The Fall came about due to the temptation at the hands of Satan.

Evil is not an opposite force but a turn by degrees, away from the light.

Evil is lesser degrees of good.

And disobedience chooses the lesser good.

In order for creatures to freely choose God they need to face Him.

He knows all possibilities but does not force us to love Him.

From all bad can come good because with God all things are possible.

God desires us to freely love Him and all of creation is ordered this way that we might.
 
STT said:
The number of possible universe, what it could be if we have done so and so, is infinite.
This means that universes without evil are possible. Why God didn’t desire a universe without evil?
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In order to love there must be the opposite, and free will to choose.
 
STT said:
The number of possible universe, what it could be if we have done so and so, is infinite.
This means that universes without evil are possible. Why God didn’t desire a universe without evil?
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God desired a moral universe over an amoral universe.

Morality - beyond algorithmic/Calvinistic actions and reactions - requires a reasoning & deciding person, which means there must be the possibility to decide immorally. “Sin is bound to come into the world, but woe to the one through whom it comes”.

The cost of a moral universe is high; incomprehensibly high. The will may be abused in such severe ways, and able to cause temporal harm to others, or both temporal & intemporal harm to oneself… But, it is still worth it, and to an infinite degree.
 
phil_at_dayboro said:
Is it possible to have good without bad ?

Doubt it , simply because you can’t have action without reaction
You can’t have a positive without a negative ,
Basic science,
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The number of possible universe, what it could be if we have done so and so, is infinite. The number of universes which we always do good is a lot if not infinite. Just consider one of those universe and tell me why God didn’t create that universe.
 
friardchips said:
God did make the world, the Universe, “good”. And without evil.

The Fall came about due to the temptation at the hands of Satan.

Evil is not an opposite force but a turn by degrees, away from the light.

Evil is lesser degrees of good.

And disobedience chooses the lesser good.

In order for creatures to freely choose God they need to face Him.

He knows all possibilities but does not force us to love Him.

From all bad can come good because with God all things are possible.

God desires us to freely love Him and all of creation is ordered this way that we might.
Click to expand...
I didn’t mean a universe without evil only in starting. I mean a universe that people always avoid evil. That is a possible universe. So the question is why God did’t create that universe.
 
Vico said:
In order to love there must be the opposite, and free will to choose.
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You didn’t get my argument. People can have free will and always do good in a hypothetical universe. That is a possibility which God didn’t create.
 
TK421 said:
God desired a moral universe over an amoral universe.

Morality - beyond algorithmic/Calvinistic actions and reactions - requires a reasoning & deciding person, which means there must be the possibility to decide immorally. “Sin is bound to come into the world, but woe to the one through whom it comes”.

The cost of a moral universe is high; incomprehensibly high. The will may be abused in such severe ways, and able to cause temporal harm to others, or both temporal & intemporal harm to oneself… But, it is still worth it, and to an infinite degree.
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I agree with all you said but I think you didn’t get my argument.
 
STT said:
So you are saying that God is responsible for creating evil?

It is not really beyond imagination. People just shouldn’t do evil.
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God didn’t have to create evil for it to exist, it is a byproduct of the creation, God created Lucifer, and he became the opposite of God - evil as we call it. Lucifer was not created evil to begin with.

Your second statement does not eliminate evil, it just means people choose good over evil, evil will still exist, just not manifest.
 
Crusaderbear said:
God created Lucifer, and he became the opposite of God - evil as we call it. Lucifer was not created evil to begin with.
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Hi. Satan is not the opposite to God.
friardchips said:
God did make the world, the Universe, “good”. And without evil.

The Fall came about due to the temptation at the hands of Satan.

Evil is not an opposite force but a turn by degrees, away from the light.

Evil is lesser degrees of good.

And disobedience chooses the lesser good.

In order for creatures to freely choose God they need to face Him.

He knows all possibilities but does not force us to love Him.

From all bad can come good because with God all things are possible.

God desires us to freely love Him and all of creation is ordered this way that we might.
Click to expand...
STT said:
I didn’t mean a universe without evil only in starting. I mean a universe that people always avoid evil. That is a possible universe. So the question is why God did’t create that universe.
Click to expand...
Let’s try determining what ‘evil’ actually is. Before we can determine the why, we have to understand the what is.

So, I put the question back to you: what is evil? Try and sum it up. Doesn’t have to be complicated language. What is ‘evil’, in simple terms?
 
Crusaderbear said:
God didn’t have to create evil for it to exist, it is a byproduct of the creation, God created Lucifer, and he became the opposite of God - evil as we call it. Lucifer was not created evil to begin with.
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It was possible that Lucifer didn’t become opposite of God. Therefore we could have a universe without sin. Assuming that the second universe is a possibility, why God didn’t create it?
Crusaderbear said:
Your second statement does not eliminate evil, it just means people choose good over evil, evil will still exist, just not manifest.
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I agree with you.
 
friardchips said:
Let’s try determining what ‘evil’ actually is. Before we can determine the why, we have to understand the what is.

So, I put the question back to you: what is evil? Try and sum it up. Doesn’t have to be complicated language. What is ‘evil’, in simple terms?
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Evil: profoundly immoral and malevolent.
 
STT said:
Evil: profoundly immoral
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  • this is the relational aspect of evil as a measure of moral judgment in intention and will.
…and malevolent.
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  • this is concerning the intention of the Will in doing evil and the effect of evil in existence.
First, what is evil, itself, spiritually?
 
friardchips said:
  • this is the relational aspect of evil as a measure of moral judgment in intention and will.
  • this is concerning the intention of the Will in doing evil and the effect of evil in existence.
First, what is evil, itself, spiritually?
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To do something against will of God.
 
STT said:
You didn’t get my argument. People can have free will and always do good in a hypothetical universe. That is a possibility which God didn’t create.
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Without evil there is also no good.
 
STT said:
To do something against will of God.
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  • this is the action of the will as a response to God directly and/or the good in existence which He has Willed.
But we need to go simpler still. I am not about human actions. Think in terms of light. What is evil, in itself?
 
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