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Scottgun
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Yeah, this goes back to the silly idea that the Church’s CDW is this massive apparatus rivaling the KGB making sure every layperson is toeing the party line.
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Soutane
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Amen.
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Sabbath_Keeper
Guest
Right take the intended subtle humor out of the text and you get what you discribe above, thanks for reinterepreting what I presented.Actually, this is a wonderful example of our enemies being so eager to attack Christ’s Church that they don’t mind contradicting themselves to do it. That is to say, on Monday they will rail about how the Church controls the faithful with an iron grip, hauls them before merciless inquiries, and metes out harsh punishment. On Tuesday they complain about how liberal the Church is because the Holy Father himself doesn’t fly to Bumhole, Arkansas with twelve Swiss guards in tow to correct a parish priest with some fluffy ideas about the Trinity.
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Sabbath_Keeper
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Hmm, I could have made the same comment on a “Baptist” forum regarding a “violation” of doctrine in the same manner (intended subtle humor). However, this is not a Baptist forum.Right, because if you were a Baptist pastor and decided to start teaching the Immaculate Conception from the pulpit, the SBC would just smile and leave it be.
All churches have their “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith”. Ours is just more organized. It has to be. There are lots and lots of us.
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Ingram
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This is an important post. Being an evangelical protestant, I’ve heard the same arguments from a host of people, many of them pastors.
As you write, the argument could be self refuting: I’ve consulted the Catechism and Catholic Answers whenever a fellow protestant has shared with me his “knowledge” of what Catholics truly believe. Inevitable–I’ve yet to be disappointed–I’ve fount their teaching false.
I am aghast at the tracts out there spewing forth lies. Lies, yes I say it plainly. I am now questioning my historical stance with the prostestants. If what we believe is true, then why do the Bob Jones’s of the world need to lie about it?
I do not implicate everyone in my circle: my pastors are good people; they simply won’t find the time to look this stuff up. They think they know the truth. The original post-er would know the truth too if he/she simply took the time.
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Sabbath_Keeper
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Absolutely right. Many who come in here, and I admit I was guilty of this to start, do so with already misconceived ideas and thus are refuted and made disreputable because they do not take the time to search for themselves and take what someone, whom they believe maybe in agreement with them, else says as “fact”. I have since begun the habit of using documentation to support my stand, and much of what I use comes from the RCC and compared to written scripture, for as we all should know, the Apostles would not have verbally taught something in contradiction to what they had written.
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ChristianKnight
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I liked the op topic. I am not a Catholic for some reasons. I’d list them, but not really related to the topic at hand.
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johnnydigit
Guest
bravo! that is the proper way to learn, investigate, “knock on the door”. we don’t ask you to believe off the bat, but to consider the true facts of what we believe, then it is your choice to go from there.
whether or not you come home to the Church, you will be that much stronger as a Christian. you will know the actual history of Christianity. you will be informed enough to proceed with God’s will for you.
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PatV
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You know, I can have my own disagreements with what comes out of Rome, but, it hurts when someone disparages my Church. Our liturgy, the saints, the Creed, are so very much a part of us. So sorry that you have such a negative view of the things that are so much a part of our lives. I will keep you in prayer, not for your conversion, but so that you might find some peace in your faith journey.
God bless and keep you!
God bless and keep you!
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peary
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Actually, we’re the ones laughing.
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PatV
Guest
Ah yes, but I am the one praying. Remember: “…for the joy of the Lord is your strength”. So be joyful in the Lord.
God bless!
God bless!
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Linda777
Guest
I am a Pentecostal and my older brother and sister were Catholics. My parents were saved when they were already grown. I was raised Pentecostal. They were raised Catholic. I grew up getting a firsthand look at a Pentecostal and Catholic lives.
MY sister & brother grew up not knowing the Bible. I grew up learning it. She was never able to see any changes in her life or her kids. Nor my brother. My dad kept praying for them and so did I. I was filled with the Holy Spirit and have seen so many wonderful things the Lord has done in our family. The Lord is everything to me and I live my life for Jesus. When my dad was a Catholic he was not a good guy but when he was saved I saw how Jesus made all the difference in his life. He went from a drinking man to a godly man. He prayed and read the Bible everyday. God made him into a wonderful kind and loving daddy.
I grew to hate the RCC for what its practices did to my brother and sister. They were not happy in life and resisted what is good for them, which is the Lord. They were Catholics in their hearts and were two unhappy souls. My dad kept praying for them. I would hear him on his knees crying and praying and seeking God for them.
I love the Lord and am extremely grateful he saved my Catholic daddy one day. My dad changed like from night to day.
God healed me of a liver disease when two ministers anointed me with oil in the name of the Lord Jesus. I have perfect health from God. I saw the difference in my own home with my poor sister and brother who started to ask for help from my Pentecostal daddy. One day the Lord saved my sister’s soul and she died with Christ in her life.
My brother got cancer and on his deathbed asked for salvation the Pentecostal way.
Knowing God’s word has given me all I need to get through life. My siblings didn’t even know anything about the Bible or God.
I also knew many other Catholics who were wicked sinners and died that way. The Pentecostals I knew lived lives of fine conduct. Not being judgmental, but the Pentecostals I knew were close to God whereas the Catholics never showed even one good fruit for Jesus.
This is what I saw growing up with Catholics. Sad but true.
I love the Lord and am so glad he saved me at an early age, It has kept me and my family and we have seen so many wonderful things from God’s gentle hands to us.
Thank God for a Christian praying daddy.
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sambos671
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They should at least be properly catechised. Which is my point. How many catholics don’t even know their own faith sarcasm asside.Yeah, this goes back to the silly idea that the Church’s CDW is this massive apparatus rivaling the KGB making sure every layperson is toeing the party line.
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happymommy
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Sounds to me that the parish let them down. But isn’t it up to the person to read their Bible? Does an adult really need to be told to do it or is this just another case of people not taking responsibilty for themselves and blaming someone or something else.
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sambos671
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Yes it is but as the Catholic faith says in it’s Catachism; Christianity is about community. That is the whole point of the Liturgy to celebrate the Eucharist in community. The fact is for many parishes the community ends after the Eucharist is taken. Cain’s point is taken in this type of statement (am I my brother’s keeper?) I would say yes you are. This failure of many catholics needs to be fixed and honestly it is becoming fixed in some places. But I would say this (including myself) is the major reason people leave the RCC.
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cazayoux
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The story is, unfortunately, all too common, but is not a complete picture of Catholicism today.
I have seen such a great renewal in the Catholic Church over the last 10 years. The parish is no longer just a place where we attend mass. It is OUR parish and it is very active. I think it will take time for this to reach all corners, but it is definitely happening.
The young men joining the priesthood today are on fire and are not the liberalistic, relativistic priests that we received in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
I’m am so very hopeful!
It’s my bloodtype, B+ (be positive)!!
michel
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johnnydigit
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actually that is one of the serious errors about the Mass nowadays. it is NOT primarily about community. the Eucharist is more about the sacrifice on Calvary, His true body and blood being present, the worship of God directly in a more vertical structure, while the horizontal structure of being in community is, if anything, secondary. if people knew this, truly believed, and had the reverence for the Eucharist that our holy fathers have been talking about, the community aspect would flow automatically.
my assumption is that this backwards perspective is why it seems like we are failing. protestants seem to do much better because the focus is more on the gathering, so they are able to focus more on what the people want, which unfortunately is often the quality of preaching, music, etc. with us, the source and summit are not these things, it is the actual presence of God coming to meet us, the Eucharist, heaven actually coming down to earth to be with us. it doesn’t matter how bad the preaching is, how bad the music is, or how much money is given. all of Salvation History, all of Creation, the entire Bible, unfolds before our eyes and in our presence. if people don’t see these things, it is just a boring gathering.
forgive me if i am explaining it very poorly, but the deeper you go, the more this becomes apparent, the more God’s splendor and the awesomeness of our faith comes alive 100-fold. when this becomes apparent, the entertaining Sunday service of the non-Catholic becomes a spec of dust in comparison. (although fellowship, praise and worship, Bible study, and community activities are wonderful ways of living the faith outside of the highest form of church worship - the Holy Mass.)
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Linda777
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I know for a fact God didn’t let them down. They had no interest in whatever was taught them. No fruit was in their lives. Sadly every Catholic I have ever known knows nothing about the Bible. I see now that many Catholics are not as others. I don’t know any, but have heard of some. My siblings didn’t receive what they needed obviously. They didn’t blame anyone. They simply did not know God. My sister’s belief in praying to saints never helped her. She had a strange way of looking at God. She didn’t know he could be known through the witness of his written word.
Her religion was all statues and beads and praying to dead people.
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chris_molter
Guest
Just a small quibble, but no Catholic prays to dead people.
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happymommy
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I’m sorry that your family did not get the guidance they needed. But please don’t lump all Catholics together. We are very blessed in our Parish. We are all about the Bible, we have several weekly Bible studies for all age groups as well as a wonderful Why Catholic study program where we discuss our faith. We work on different ways of praying and reading the scripture. Through all of this we still get the, well Catholics aren’t Christians. Which just makes me sick. I was raised Presbyterian. My husband was willing to leave the Catholic Church for me, something I am so ashamed that I ever suggested. And my church still treated him terribly. But I was welcomed into the Catholic Church with open arms, and they didn’t care if I joined. I did become Catholic 7 years ago and I have more faith now and Christ truly is in my heart now. It’s like nothing I have ever experienced before. I had someone just last week, a person I have been friends with for 13 years, tell me that Catholics aren’t really Christians, but that my husband and I are the exception! I’m not sure how someone who is a Christian can make a blanket statement like that other than to say it is just ignorance. I think we are the only Catholic people she really knows, she’s just believing what others tell her. We are not to judge. And no one will never know what is in the heart of another. But in my experience with the Presbyterian faith, I saw an awful display of “Christian behavior”, far worse than I have ever witnessed in the Catholic Church. Is it fair for me to lump all Protestants together with the closed minded one’s I went to Church with, No. But we have 26 Churches in our town, 1 of them Catholic. They all act like this towards us. Not very Christian like if you ask me. But we just keep praying for them. What else can we do.
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