Why I reject Jesus

[JRKH]

I really need to say thankyou for the replies. I was expecting a backlash to putting these things forward but your response to me has been one of kindness and I am thankful to each everyone of you for it.

You are welcome.

These things have been gnawing at me for a while, and now that I have said it and not been excommunicated for it, I feel a lot lighter.

Honestly, you are among friends. I think God wants us both here on these boards. Not because we always get answers but because we are always inspired to think and learn.

I am find(ing) my transition out of catholicism / christianity very hard, as if the process is akin to killing a part of yourself … but in a way I am, and this is related to the question James asked;

Could you tell us the positive side of your spirit? Forget Jesus for a moment, forget the Church etc, Do you believe in a diety? How do you view this diety? things like that. It would certainly help to understand the things you do believe in rather than just what you don’t.

I believe in God my Father - for christian’s that would be the Father in the trinity, Allah in Islam, Amun Ra in Kemetic, Yahweh for Jews etc. I recognize Him as the God who has been in my life all along. When I pray to Him I can feel Him there … there is no emptiness like with Jesus, there is the very real presence of a Great God. When I tried to suicide some time ago, it was HIM that I saw (I saw no Jesus). I love this deity with all my heart and I have decided to live for Him. He gives me no visions, no promises, no ecstasies, no apparitions - just his constant presence in my everyday life. In christianity I was always told Jesus loves me so much he died for me, but in the everyday toil he was never anywhere to be found.
My Father who is my god now, won me over not by dying, not by holocaust, not by crucifixion … but by little things. For example, I left my car in a parking lot to go to a psychologist and I didn’t have change to get a ticket. I asked my Father to look after my car so I don’t get a $150 fine upon my return. When I did return, there was a paid ticket for the parking tucked under the windscreen wiper on the front window of my car. I knew that was God. Little things like this that attest to his presence with me in my everyday little life. There is no hell with Him … just trust and loyalty. Trust that the God who loved me enough to create me despite all my faults, and cares for me during this whole life, will in turn care for me in the next.

I can’t talk everything about the God I know cause he brings joy to me just thinking about him and in turn I could talk about him forever.
I don’t have a “scripture” for Him or a big religion with buildings and priests (from which christians learn who their God is) but i KNOW him through relationship. I don’t know everything about what he is (ie: think theology doctrines that most people don;t understand anyway) but I know *who *he is

I love this. God has not abandoned you and, in all likelyhood is trying to help you find your way back to the real Jesus. But that will be for later.
The one thing I will point up here is this. Most of the time in the Gospels Jesus is directing peoples attentions to The Father, and not to Himself.
He gave us the “Our Father”
He said His brothers and sisters are those who do “The Father’s” will.
He Himself was only able to do what He did because of the power “The Father” gave Him.
I sometimes think we have done Jesus a disservice by dwelling on His divinity and not enough on His Humanity. Making Him too much our God and not enough our Brother. (And believe me, brothers can fight a lot and still love one another.)

I should have said why I bothered with a post like this, and it is because Jesus won’t leave me alone, and I feel tempted to give him one more go, but then I can’t because I don;t trust him anymore. I feel that if I turn to him i will get burned again. He pops up and then he interferes with my relationship with God, and I get anxious and hell surfaces its head and he makes me angry - it’s complicated but I want to severe him once and for all or sort him out once and for all, and ignoring him doesn’t work for long.

As I started to say above, maybe it would be helpful to think of Jesus as “a brother” instead of “a god”. God is our Father. Jesus is his son and therefore our brother. It might be worth exploring the Gospels in this light.
But don’t let anyone here push you. Take you time dear one.
You have “The Father” to hang onto, so hold on tight.

I appreciate everyone’s kindness, I will try to respond to more questions etc later, I am just mind-boggled at the moment and need time to re-read and think. i’m sorry.

Nothing to be sorry for. We’ll be here to try and help.

Peace
James

 

[cecilia97]

I am find my transition out of catholicism / christianity very hard, as if the process is akin to killing a part of yourself

That’s the Trinity, or however you think of God, talking to you right there.

I hope you find the peace you’re looking for. It makes me sad that you somehow did not learn of the same merciful, loving Jesus Christ that some others did. He didn’t die for us so we could go straight to hell at the first mistake. There would be no point to that. He died to shower us with God’s mercy.

Praying that you can love yourself as Christ loves you. It’s a long road and takes a lifetime of practice…we all mess up but it’s worth it to keep trying!

 

[cheeto1]

Dear uglygal,

You are mistaken to name yourself uglygal. Did you make
yourself? How is it that you insult the work of God your Father
with this name? He has named you “beautiful girl”. Yes, you
are beautiful, no matter who thinks so or not. Do not listen to
the wrong people, they can’t get you to heaven, only God can.
Stay away from bad music and TV.

 

[fhansen]

Dear Gal, this sounds like a matter of God vs. religion. God is real and alive to you while Jesus is connected to religion-including whatever baggage it may have. Not all of the external customs of Catholicism are essential to the faith. A religion should have the purpose of bringing us to God-that should be its target. Like when Jesus said, “When you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father”. Jesus’ purpose is to show us God’s nature and bring us to Him- like one of the other posters said. So Catholicism is a message about God. It’s easy to confuse the message and the messenger with the goal. We don’t worship the Church-we worship God. And you’re right; we shouldn’t worship anything, including Jesus, until we believe for ourselves that He’s God. The bible shows us who Jesus is perhaps better than any other place. There, through Him, we learn of God’s mercy, love, humility, servanthood, fatherhood, forgiveness, etc. Where else is that kind of God echoed-except deep within ourselves where His image resides? The Apostles were aware of that same Presence when they were near Jesus. Jesus is much simpler, in a way, than the one you’ve known. Anyway, for what it’s worth, I had to sort of start over and search out truth on my own before I recognized God in Jesus-before I found that truth in Him.

 

[JRKH]

Dear Gal, this sounds like a matter of God vs. religion. God is real and alive to you while Jesus is connected to religion-including whatever baggage it may have. Not all of the external customs of Catholicism are essential to the faith. A religion should have the purpose of bringing us to God-that should be its target. Like when Jesus said, “When you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father”. Jesus’ purpose is to show us God’s nature and bring us to Him- like one of the other posters said. So Catholicism is a message about God. It’s easy to confuse the message and the messenger with the goal. We don’t worship the Church-we worship God. And you’re right; we shouldn’t worship anything, including Jesus, until we believe for ourselves that He’s God. The bible shows us who Jesus is perhaps better than any other place. There, through Him, we learn of God’s mercy, love, humility, servanthood, fatherhood, forgiveness, etc. Where else is that kind of God echoed-except deep within ourselves where His image resides? The Apostles were aware of that same Presence when they were near Jesus. Jesus is much simpler, in a way, than the one you’ve known. Anyway, for what it’s worth, I had to sort of start over and search out truth on my own before I recognized God in Jesus-before I found that truth in Him.

fhanson,
Nicely put.
It is unfortunate that religion can, too often, become a barrier in our relationship with God instead of a help. If those charged with teaching are too harsh, demanding, and negative it can have a devestating effect on those in their charge. Something we are witnessing here.

Peace
James

 

[LDNCatholic]

Yes I think the answer was no, because God was saying, I’m not there and I’m not going to answer your prayers through invoking Jesus, Mary, St Anne, St Jude etc … because I want you to invoke me - your Father

That’s the way I have come to understand the silence of the novenas

And that is unfortunate. Maybe (just a thought) you were praying for something that God did not want to grant you. Still, as I said, you are in my prayers.

 

[mark_a]

These are the core reasons, as you can see they are not so much theological “bible quote” reasons but reasons of experience. If anyone chooses to respond, I must admit Bible quotes mean nothing to me because the Bible speaks nice words that i believe are empty. Words are nice and all, but actions speak louder. Part of the reason I trusted in Jesus so much was those nice words, which I see now are empty.
Perhaps no one can really help me, since in my experience that first thing that will probably cross a Christians mind is whether I am possessed, or oppressed by demons or involved in the occult, or in one way or another bad and wrong before Jesus who can do no wrong.
How do you explain this Jesus I have experienced? He is not consistent with the Jesus others describe here … why the difference? How do you justify how Jesus treated me or am I (as always) completely to blame and bad and wrong?

Are you at all familiar with the Church’s teachings on suffering?

 

[EphelDuath]

Footprints in the Sand

One night I had a dream. I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord, and Across the sky flashed scenes from my life. For each scene I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand;

One belonged to me, and the other to the Lord. When the last scene of my life flashed before us, I looked back at the footprints in the sand. I noticed that many times along the path of my life,There was only one set of footprints.

I also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in my life. This really bothered me, and I questioned the Lord about it. "Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, You would walk with me all the way; But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, There is only one set of footprints. I don’t understand why in times when I needed you the most, you should leave me.

The Lord replied, "My precious, precious child. I love you, and I would never, never leave you during your times of trial and suffering. When you saw only one set of footprints, It was then that I carried you."

---

by Mary Stevenson

That is beautiful.

 

[BlaineTog]

All I can do that might be helpful is suggest reading “A Grief Observed” by C.S. Lewis. It’s basically his journal entries during the time after his wife died of cancer. It’s pretty short and shouldn’t take long to read, but it speaks to what it seems like you’re experiencing.

 

[JRKH]

All I can do that might be helpful is suggest reading “A Grief Observed” by C.S. Lewis. It’s basically his journal entries during the time after his wife died of cancer. It’s pretty short and shouldn’t take long to read, but it speaks to what it seems like you’re experiencing.

Interesting sugestion since he was agnostic before his conversion.

James

 

[timotheos]

Hello, Beautifulgal

Hoo, boy does your post hit home; how I felt many years ago. Since then, I have learned two things.

1. Suffering happens. To everyone. No exceptions.
2. We can decide that suffering has no meaning, and no one cares, and Jesus is irrelevant. Or we can decide that suffering has a meaning, a mysterious meaning, that God himself in the person of Jesus chose to suffer horribly, and that this suffering, both His and ours, has profound ramifications.

I don’t claim to have the answers. But, like it or not, the entire truth of suffering is somehow, somewhere in Jesus. My prayers are with you.

-Tim

 

[JReducation]

I wonder what would happen if we separate this into complementary parts. Would this be helpful?

FIRST

Let’s take a closer look at suffering. It is part of the human condition. No one is exempt from it. It comes in many forms: psychological, social, material, physical and spiritual. Some kinds of suffering we can avoid and some take us by surprise. I believe it’s those that take us by surprise that knock us off our feet.

That being said, suffering of any kind requires that we cope. There is effective coping in which we look for solutions to our suffering. If we cannot eliminate it altogether, we try to minimize its negative impact in our lives. There is also ineffective coping, the type where we throw the responsibility for our suffering on someone else. This places the burden of resolving the problem on the perceived cause. This can be God or another person. It’s called finger pointing. Sometimes suffering can be caused by forces outside of us. However, finding a way to minimize the suffering is a shared responsibility. Some people work through suffering with the help of a professional, a relative, a good friend or a religious guide. The bottom line is that suffering does not go away unless we do two things, actively look for solutions and reach out to others to walk the journey with us.

SECOND

Let’s take a closer look at the nature of God. To keep this practical, I’ll skip all of the metaphysics and so forth. We believe that God exists and that there is an indwelling Trinity in God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If we look at our lives we will always find times when things were going wrong in every possible way. Nonetheless, we’re still here. We made it this far. God has provided for us. He has given us strength to deal with the tough times, opened up new doors or gifted us with intelligence and common sense to solve some of these issues.

It’s easy to say that everything good in our lives comes from God and the bad from some other dude. That’s a kind of over simplification of life. The real issue is that it is in God’s nature to provide for his sons and daughters. He may provide intelligence and vision to one, while he provides social resources to another. It’s the old parable of the talents. God does not give the same talents to each one. The talents are measured out according to our needs and our abilities.

While it’s in God’s nature to give us the gifts that we need to make it through life, it is also in his nature to demand that we use those gifts. Not to use them is like throwing a gift back into the gift-giver’s face and saying that it’s not enough. There is an old saying that God will never give us more than we can handle. Well he also never gives us more than what we need, what for?

As to Jesus Christ, as the incarnate second person of the Trinity we see two aspects that require intense attention. On the one hand he comes to draw all people to the Father. This is his Divine mission. He comes to save us. But he also has a very human or earthly mission. This side of Jesus may have been missed by the OP. He shows us how to face life…

Jesus was an incredible human being. He stood up for what was right. He prayed over his concerns and fears. He laughed with children. Why else would they want to approach him? He judged people’s choices, but was warm and totally charming toward humble sinners. Look at the dialogue with the woman at the well. He could also be quite stubborn and cocky when he knew that he was right. Look at his debates with the leaders of his time and his silence toward Pilate. Even if you deny this man is God, how could you not fall in love with a man who seems to have it so well put together? How can you not see him as a role model?

In my mind, the convincing factor of his Divinity is his psychic makeup. He was too well hinged. His humanity definitely co-existed alongside a divine nature in one person. That helped my conversion from Judaism to Christianity, it was Jesus’ charm. The theological stuff came later.

 

[Godlovestrength]

THere is no person who could love another person they wanted to unless they were to let go of some of their own ways of living, of thinking, of responding. Their relationship would not work if it were only run on one persons thought patterns or desires.

Well Jesus, you and I know, accepts us as we are. So that means that it is you and I who have to respond to the relationship in such a way that allows for breathing space. We are the ones who have to accept Jesus you can say you once did but as we know if we are the persn who wants the worldly things and Jesus, then we will end up with neither. Why ? because we will be about two different minds.
Chose who you will follow, Jesus who is Love who tell’s you He cannot promis you a bed of roses in this world but He WILL give you “peace of mind” if you choose Him.

If you should choose the world, then remember God made it and He in the long run decides what happens to it and those who follow it.

God did not make His people to be computers, that is just how much God loves His creation. so each one has a heart and mind to choose who they will follow.

Godbless

 

[Tietjen]

Dear Uglygal,

I’m sorry that you continue to perceive so much negativity coming from God and His Church. I’ve read many of your posts and have found none that give thanks to God or praise Him. Despite how you feel, the simple fact that you draw breathe, that you were chosen for life, and that you yearn to understand and love God proves that He cares about you. I mean no disrespect and I hope that you do not take this the wrong way, but perhaps you should seek professional help. You always seem to be down on everything God has given you in life. Even the nickname you use here in the forms suggests that you are somewhat negative towards yourself. I assure you that if God created you, YOU are worth something and He does love and care about you. I’ll continue to pray for you. God bless.

 

[LSK]

At the risk of hurting your feelings, which is not my attention, your post was one of the most self-centered and selfish expressions of why someone would reject Jesus Christ and His Church that I have read in many years.

The fact that you may have been poorly catechized may be part of the problem. However, the inherent message of your objections to Jesus is all about you. God did not create you for any other reason than Love - so that you may know Him and Love Him and do His work on earth.

To reject the teachings of His Church because YOU could not fullfill its standards, YOU did not like all you had to do, YOU did not get what you wanted is indicative of the kind of inward turning that so many of us did - trying desperately to be happy we went to OURSELVES rather than outward.

I have suffered many tragedies in my life. In my own selfishness and self-centeredness I blamed God for the evil perpetrated against me, demanded like a child that I be freed of all suffering and basically decided that since my life was hard it had to be because there is no God.

What I have come to learn is that life happens, and God has given me such incredibly tools to use when horror strikes that I am foolish to turn them down.

The good news in all of this is, of course, that you can reject Jesus all you want - He however has not rejected you and anytime you want to start looking OUTWARD instead of INWARD for happiness He will be right there, arms open wide, ready to welcome you home.

I would also suggest that you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Some of your ‘rejection reasons’ are obviously based on ignorance of the Truth.

May God guide you to where you are supposed to be; you are in my prayers.

 

[Larry1700]

Your post is probably not that uncommon, but as stated by others, you may be able to take some comfort that your experience is shared by some of the greatest saints.

I went backpacking to Crater Lake in Colorado once, and saw an amazingly beautiful sight once I got there. The trip up the mountain, was grueling, but more than worth the effort. I pray that your rough journey will ultimately be rewarded, as well.

As for the “proper way” to pray, etc., your post reminded me of when my daughter said that the Church has too many “rules.” I thought about it for a long time, then explained that it depends on how you perceive them. They are intended to be helps on your spiritual journey, not impediments. I like to use analogies, so I would compare it to the rules we’re taught by our parents, such as don’t touch a fire, look both ways before crossing the street, always turn in your homework on time, etc., etc. Those rules seemed burdensome when I was young, but now that I’ve matured, I realize how important and helpful they were.

Using another analogy I heard recently, there was a man who wrote a letter to the editor saying how he was considering not going to church any more. He reasoned that since he could not remember a single one of the hundreds of sermons he had heard the pastor give in all the years he’d been attending church, it was obvious that church was not serving any useful purpose in his life. A few days later, someone else wrote a letter to the editor, and suggested that the man was wrong. They suggested that the man probably didn’t remember all the thousands of meals his wife had cooked for him, but that each meal did serve an important purpose in the man’s life.

 

[uglygal]

:nope:

I’m too tired for this conversation - I’m evil and wrong and selfish and that’s the end of it.I could have seen it coming, but how can I resist the pain? every bit of misery atones for my sins

i am self-centered in speaking out loud the injuries done to me, I should keep quiet.

If someone wants to delete the post, go ahead … this faith, its reasons, its logic is far too painful for me

 

[LDNCatholic]

:nope:

I’m too tired for this conversation - I’m evil and wrong and selfish and that’s the end of it.I could have seen it coming, but how can I resist the pain? every bit of misery atones for my sins

i am self-centered in speaking out loud the injuries done to me, I should keep quiet.

If someone wants to delete the post, go ahead … this faith, its reasons, its logic is far too painful for me

You’re not evil, and it doesn’t sound like you’re selfish at all. You’re doing this anonymously over the internet, it isn’t like you’re standing at a street corner with a loudspeaker.

Everyone who is posting is trying to help you, even if some of the posts (including my own) seem less than charitable.

God Bless

Peter

 

[JRKH]

:nope:

I’m too tired for this conversation - I’m evil and wrong and selfish and that’s the end of it.I could have seen it coming, but how can I resist the pain? every bit of misery atones for my sins

i am self-centered in speaking out loud the injuries done to me, I should keep quiet.

If someone wants to delete the post, go ahead … this faith, its reasons, its logic is far too painful for me

LovelyLady,
You just rest for now.

To those who posted criticisms here,
In the future please try to recognize when it would be best to keep quiet. This is a sad, tormented soul who is dealing with great sorrow, and you burst in with things like “self centered”, and accuse her of being too negative and expressing yourselves with CAPS. These things are totally counterproductive and only reenforces her negative outlook.
She came and posted this because she felt Jesus might be calling her again, and some of us respond in just the sort of negative, judgemental ways that drove her away from Jesus in the first place. Maybe you think that hard truths need to be said for her own good, but it must be in her time, not ours.
Sorry for the rant, and I know you meant well but, for crying out loud, read her posts with an open heart to a suffering child of God instead of with the teeth of a dogmatist.

Peace
James

 

[Tietjen]

LovelyLady,
You just rest for now.

To those who posted criticisms here,
In the future please try to recognize when it would be best to keep quiet. This is a sad, tormented soul who is dealing with great sorrow, and you burst in with things like “self centered”, and accuse her of being too negative and expressing yourselves with CAPS. These things are totally counterproductive and only reenforces her negative outlook.
She came and posted this because she felt Jesus might be calling her again, and some of us respond in just the sort of negative, judgemental ways that drove her away from Jesus in the first place. Maybe you think that hard truths need to be said for her own good, but it must be in her time, not ours.
Sorry for the rant, and I know you meant well but, for crying out loud, read her posts with an open heart to a suffering child of God instead of with the teeth of a dogmatist.

Peace
James

Dear James,

I can appreciate where you’re coming from and certainly your heart is in the right place. However, I don’t see where anyone here was responding in a cruel manner. All of us are offering prayers to the OP and want her to feel God’s love. Truth without charity is hard for anyone to embrace; however, charity without truth will not yield positive results in this case either. If others and I are at one end of the spectrum (and I don’t believe that we are) then possibly you may be viewed as being on the other end. The fact is no one here can accurately assess the OP’s situation. We only know what information she has given us and she came here seeking truth, not to be told to “just rest for now.” I have read many posts by the OP and based on those posts, I believe that the OP may be suffering from depression and low self-esteem. I’m not a doctor, but if the OP is telling the truth and truly feels that God is out to get her, perhaps she needs more than to “just rest.” She may need to speak to a professional about these feelings.

God bless.