Why I reject Jesus

[uglygal]

I just want anyone who reads this to know that I do not want people to lose their faith through reading this thread.
I don’t want to cause scandal to people’s faith in God, so I hope if that’s what this thread is doing, that it will be removed and deleted.

I have been thinking alot and I have taken to heart the advice people have given me, and I have prayed about this.

I think I *may *have identified the cause of my problems - in my faith and the guidance I have received in it, I was always told that God *will * do something if …
eg: Charismatic prayer meetings - God will heal you *if *you believe in him
God *will * comfort you if you trust him
God will deduct 300 days from your stay in purgatory if you say this prayer
God will love you if you imitate Jesus perfectly

The root of this I think began when I was 16 and experienced a very great personal tragedy and became very very ill which involved alot of pain. I was taken to prayer meetings (where people are slayed in the spirit, babble in tongues, are ‘healed’ when the leader touched their head etc) and I was told Jesus loves you and will heal you *if * … and so the list started.

I was desperate at that time and I fell for it. I believed what the religious leaders told me, that Jesus loves me and will heal me if I do this and that. And so I believed Jesus loved me and would heal me if I believed in Him, called on his name etc. When Jesus didn’t heal me it was indication of him not loving me or me not doing things properly.

The Father revealed this to me today as I was praying and thinking. I’m really quiet disappointed as this seems to be a small thing, but this ‘false hopes’ caused me a lot of suffering and damage.

Everything is ok now (maybe not everything but the issue I raised in this thread at least) … christian zealots, well-intentioned of course - peddled a false god to me

This is hard to say due to the implications that run from it, but the Father revealed to me and helped me understand that I have been worshiping a false god all along.

My ‘Jesus’ was a false God and so I was right in rejecting Him. This God bore the trappings of ‘Jesus’ but he was alien in his relation.

This seems to be the end of this it’s quiet anti-climax really

ps: I had a headache this morning and I offered it to God as penance for sins - and by the afternoon it became a full-blown migraine and I ended up passing out and vomiting (God seized the opportunity it seems )

 

[Godlovestrength]

I Believe …

• everyday is the Holy Day of God the Father - that’s why there’s no set feast for Him
• The Father is with you always, every ray of light during the day is His presence shone down upon you, every breath you breathe is His spirit in you (because you need the Spirit of God to live), every star at night is the eye of God gazing down to watch you during the night
• The Holy Spirit of God is His arms that reach down to pick you up and take you to heaven
• The worst torment of hell is separation from the Father and not loving + being loved by the Father
• The Father will provide - this life, the next life and ever after
• Suffering happens - but with the Father that which is ugly can be turned into something beautiful
• Love is the measure of your “holiness” and “righteousness”
• You can enter heaven by it’s gates … or you can take the easier route through the Father’s love
• Faith is not about ecstasies, revelations and miracles - it is about loyalty to One God and Trust in Him alone
• steadfast trust in the Father through adversity is a greater miracle than being healed of aids/cancer
• Loyalty to the Father when you have every reason to abandon him is a greater miracle than being risen from the dead
• To suffer with resignation to the Father’s care and will and remain beautiful (gentle, humble, charitable, loving) whilst suffering, is greater than heroics and big achievements
• the Father never tempts you or sets you up to fall - he ‘assigns’ you suffering / injustice sometimes so the fire of love in you heart can turn it into beauty for Him and others - thus you cooperate in His work and desire to annihilate evil and all that is ugly
• work and love of the Father should not be motivated by a desire for “heavenly glory” and “merit” - it should be motivated for love
• The love of the Father - to be loved by the Father is the greatest crown of glory
• The Father does not want me to run the good race and win (as St Paul teaches) because a race implies ‘winners’ and ‘losers’, those who are ‘first’ and those who will be ‘last’. The Father wants me to journey with Him and in the end the distance I walk will not matter - rather the number of steps I took* with *him
• sometimes religious people know a lot *about *God but they do not *know * God
  This is what I believe, this is the faith that brings me joy
  I’m actually smiling as I write this and feel as happy as a … um someone very happy I’m the type of person that God is everything to me - he is my best friend, my family, my provider, my protector, my joy.

You know I think of God as my best friend something like my manager who looks upon me like the world I am in is a big sports arrena, and God is up there in the grandstand watching me play my part in life. But is also my best friend who could will NEVER let me down and will love me for ever.

When I feel that he doesn’t love me anymore I fall into the deepest depression, anxiety and misery and I search for Him until I find Him again. You know I think that this section is where you are at as many times as others are. BUT the thing seems to be that you may not realise that it is satin who puts the doubt on you, and you may not be realising it at the time and therefore you become depressed thinking it is yourself.

Satin puts the feeling something like your having manic depression. but thats because satin would like you to think that way rather than your realising it is NOT depression but satin that is trying to do the damage. The key to it is to rebuke satin and clain the blood of Jesus over you and every time you feel down as bad as it may seem tell satin you rebuke it in the name of Jesus command it in the name of Jesus to go to the foot of Jesus on the cross and praise Jesus and keep on praising Jesus.

As much as I hate it, I think about Him all the time, everyday, my first thought upon waking is of Him. If i were separated from Him I would die a worst death than all the souls damned to hell put together. I am going to read my affirmation of faith every morning from now on, because it makes me feel happy and directs my attention to what is good in my life - my Father. ( sounds good to me )

Hey Godbless

 

[JRKH]

I just want anyone who reads this to know that I do not want people to lose their faith through reading this thread.
I don’t want to cause scandal to people’s faith in God, so I hope if that’s what this thread is doing, that it will be removed and deleted.

I have been thinking alot and I have taken to heart the advice people have given me, and I have prayed about this.

I think I *may *have identified the cause of my problems - in my faith and the guidance I have received in it, I was always told that God *will * do something if …
eg: Charismatic prayer meetings - God will heal you *if *you believe in him
God *will * comfort you if you trust him
God will deduct 300 days from your stay in purgatory if you say this prayer
God will love you if you imitate Jesus perfectly

The root of this I think began when I was 16 and experienced a very great personal tragedy and became very very ill which involved alot of pain. I was taken to prayer meetings (where people are slayed in the spirit, babble in tongues, are ‘healed’ when the leader touched their head etc) and I was told Jesus loves you and will heal you *if * … and so the list started.

I was desperate at that time and I fell for it. I believed what the religious leaders told me, that Jesus loves me and will heal me if I do this and that. And so I believed Jesus loved me and would heal me if I believed in Him, called on his name etc. When Jesus didn’t heal me it was indication of him not loving me or me not doing things properly.

The Father revealed this to me today as I was praying and thinking. I’m really quiet disappointed as this seems to be a small thing, but this ‘false hopes’ caused me a lot of suffering and damage.

Everything is ok now (maybe not everything but the issue I raised in this thread at least) … christian zealots, well-intentioned of course - peddled a false god to me

This is hard to say due to the implications that run from it, but the Father revealed to me and helped me understand that I have been worshiping a false god all along.

My ‘Jesus’ was a false God and so I was right in rejecting Him. This God bore the trappings of ‘Jesus’ but he was alien in his relation.

This seems to be the end of this it’s quiet anti-climax really

ps: I had a headache this morning and I offered it to God as penance for sins - and by the afternoon it became a full-blown migraine and I ended up passing out and vomiting (God seized the opportunity it seems )

LovelyLady,
Thank you for sharing this with us here.
And Praise be to God for revealing this to you.
He does work in the darndest ways, doesn’t He?
Please don’t be disappointed that the revelation seems small, after all it can be some oft he smallest “seeds” that grow the biggest trees, and it can be small things that create large troubles.

As I have said before, I believe you are on the right track and in the right place spiritually for now; resting in the Father’s arms and feeling His love.
Letting go of the hurt of the past will take time. But in this quiet time, I believe He will reveal more to you.
The reason I can say this is simple. You have returned to the most basic of Beliefs; and one many of us never quite get.
You believe in God because you must.
You Love God because He Deserves Love
Not because of any reward or punishment, but because of everything He is to us right now in this world.
Well, you’ve already said it better than I can. - But please know this -
I respect you and who you are. I have read your posts over the months and seen your struggle and growth. You are an inspiration to me in my own journey.
Thank you.

Peace
James

P.S. I don’t think anyone is having their faith challenged by this thread and certainly don’t think it needs deleted.

 

[reen12]

quote: uglygal

Thankyou very much for this

You’re welcome.

reen12

 

[JReducation]

I’m glad to see that things are looking better.

I stronlgy recommend that you read the biography of St. Teresa of Avila by Shirley du Boulay. You’ll see a lot of yourself in this remarkable woman.

Try it. You’ll like it.

JR

 

[rinnie]

You know when things dont go right in your life its so easy to blame others. the hardest thing to do is look within and admit wrong on our part. If you choose to reject Jesus that is your choice. But i believe deep down inside you are searching for a way to bring him back. Everyone thinks that if you ask Jesus for something and you dont get it hes not listening. Or answering. I learned myself the hard way he just sometimes says no. And sometimes is you are lucky and keep praying and reading the bible you will get your answers, sometimes he wont tell you until you meet him face to face why he said no. But i know he is always right. And i do know that even when he says NO he still loves me. And is doing what is best for me. Im not going to lie to you and say im happy he says no. But i still Love and obey him the best I can. But you cant demand anything of him. he wont help you that way. But if you ask and pray and he will help you. Sometimes it takes years to see how he did say yes. And did answer your prayers. You just didnt see it. or didnt see it yet. God Bless You.

 

[PazFeAmor]

UglyGal I can relate to some of your struggles and even had posted a thread called “My Faith is at 0%” about a week ago. I hope you don’t mind my sticking my nose and pointing out a few things that stand out to me in your posts.

It seems to me that you have been affected by other Catholics who have a horribly wrong misunderstanding of who Christ is and how God’s will works in our lives.

In one of your later posts you said

I think I may have identified the cause of my problems - in my faith and the guidance I have received in it, I was always told that God will do something if …
eg: Charismatic prayer meetings - God will heal you if you believe in him
God will comfort you if you trust him
God will deduct 300 days from your stay in purgatory if you say this prayer
God will love you if you imitate Jesus perfectly

I think this is the heart of your problem. You think that God is SUPPOSE to do something “if you do this” “if you pray this way” or “heal you” or “deduct 300 days” because other Catholics have told you this. No one can possibly know what “God’s will” will be regarding anyones prayer requests or the future outcome to ones present problems.

Just remember that as a Catholic:

1. There are no special prayers that will get you an automatic answer from God. You might get a yes response, you might get a no response or you may never notice any response at all.
2. There are no set days removed from your time in purgatory (if that be God’s will for you) if you say certain prayers. The Catholic Church no longer uses a number of days for indulgences that come from prayers or devotions.
3. You are not obligated as a Catholic to pray the rosary or have certain devotions.
4. God doesn’t allow bad things to happen, human beings make the choice to do bad things.

Just your stating that someone told you that you get 300 days deducted from purgatory makes it crystal clear to me that the people you have come across in Catholic circles are not very educated on their faith and have a skewered understanding of Christ’s love for us.

If you need to take a breather from the rosary and other Catholic devotions then do so. Sometimes as Catholics we overwhelm ourselves by having too many devotions at the same time and burn ourselves out. I really recommend your reading the writings of the Early Church Fathers, the Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence and of course reading the Bible.

In my thread that I mentioned earlier I had a very hard time dealing with the concept of the Christian God and couldn’t believe in Jesus. These attacks I suffered from all centered on how could God allow suffering in this world, why when I prayed He never would answer me and experienced a horrendous depression. (I have a history of suffering from depression so I can identify with you on this as well)

Thank God that through the prayers of others I came out of this 0% faith crisis and realized how I was being attacked spiritually. During these attacks as much as I wanted to deny Jesus as God I felt that I was all alone in the desert where in my delirium I would see a mirage of false help that I’d reach out for (Buddhism for example) that would appear to be the antidote and answer to my 0% faith crisis. My silly conclusion in my 0% faith crisis was that **there was no God ** so I was in a worse state than you!

You may now feel **a sense of freedom because you feel the burden of religion off your back **but that false freedom won’t last for long. You sound ALOT like me and I know how hard it is to wrap ones head around the problem of suffering, why it happens and why Jesus being God allows it to happen but its not that way at all. **Even with this God that is not Jesus **you are now finding comfort with there still exists the problem of suffering. You may have all these good feelings coming from this God now but sooner or later the question of suffering will rear its ugly head and torment you again.

Jesus being God loves us so much that he respects every human beings right to their free will even though the actions taken by some of humanity are downright horrifying.

You can try to find comfort in a nameless, faceless God but I am almost 100% certain that you will come back to the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church. No matter how many times you leave Christ and his Church He will always welcome you back.

I will pray for you and humbly ask for your prayers as well.

Peace

 

[LilyM]

I just want anyone who reads this to know that I do not want people to lose their faith through reading this thread.
I don’t want to cause scandal to people’s faith in God, so I hope if that’s what this thread is doing, that it will be removed and deleted.

I have been thinking alot and I have taken to heart the advice people have given me, and I have prayed about this.

I think I *may *have identified the cause of my problems - in my faith and the guidance I have received in it, I was always told that God *will * do something if …
eg: Charismatic prayer meetings - God will heal you *if *you believe in him
God *will * comfort you if you trust him
God will deduct 300 days from your stay in purgatory if you say this prayer
God will love you if you imitate Jesus perfectly

The root of this I think began when I was 16 and experienced a very great personal tragedy and became very very ill which involved alot of pain. I was taken to prayer meetings (where people are slayed in the spirit, babble in tongues, are ‘healed’ when the leader touched their head etc) and I was told Jesus loves you and will heal you *if * … and so the list started.

I was desperate at that time and I fell for it. I believed what the religious leaders told me, that Jesus loves me and will heal me if I do this and that. And so I believed Jesus loved me and would heal me if I believed in Him, called on his name etc. When Jesus didn’t heal me it was indication of him not loving me or me not doing things properly.

The Father revealed this to me today as I was praying and thinking. I’m really quiet disappointed as this seems to be a small thing, but this ‘false hopes’ caused me a lot of suffering and damage.

Everything is ok now (maybe not everything but the issue I raised in this thread at least) … christian zealots, well-intentioned of course - peddled a false god to me

This is hard to say due to the implications that run from it, but the Father revealed to me and helped me understand that I have been worshiping a false god all along.

My ‘Jesus’ was a false God and so I was right in rejecting Him. This God bore the trappings of ‘Jesus’ but he was alien in his relation.

This seems to be the end of this it’s quiet anti-climax really

ps: I had a headache this morning and I offered it to God as penance for sins - and by the afternoon it became a full-blown migraine and I ended up passing out and vomiting (God seized the opportunity it seems )

:console: hope you’re feeling well soon.

Sounds like you might indeed have been sold a false bill of goods.

For one thing whoever told you about 300 days off purgatory had their information wrong. For any prayer that had a ‘300 days’ indulgence, what that means is that the prayer was considered to be worth 300 days of penance under the old canonical style of penance where you might spend a certain amount of time fasting on bread and water.

Has nothing to do with ‘time off’ purgatory, which is most likely outside of time anyway. Think of all those people who are there at the Final Judgement who still have punishment left to serve. It can’t be temporal punishment because that very same instant ALL of us immediately go to our final destination (heaven or hell). So it sounds very much like purgatory would be outside of time.

Off topic, but the ‘300days/1 year/7 years’ system is no longer used, all indulgences now are simply ‘partial’ or ‘plenary’ (complete). Makes for fewer misunderstandings.

 

[rinnie]

I dont know if this will help you or not. But 3 years ago my brother was real sick. I begged God to heal him. I even tried to reason with God. Make a deal. Even though I know that you cant make deals with God. But things were not looking good for my brother so i begged God to take me instead so my brother could live. But God does what is right. Rather we like it or not. He is God He is perfect. Even if we dont agree with him at the time he is Perfect. He would never hurt us. And if we are hurting he will hurt with us. He is never away from us. God will never leave us we leave him but he wont leave us. All we have to do is ask.

 

[uglygal]

You may now feel **a sense of freedom because you feel the burden of religion off your back **but that false freedom won’t last for long.

I feel freedom because I feel free from the burden of a god that I came to not like very much at all - a god that looked like Jesus but was a false God constructed according to other peoples and my own idea of Him

You sound ALOT like me and I know how hard it is to wrap ones head around the problem of suffering, why it happens and why Jesus being God allows it to happen but its not that way at all. **Even with this God that is not Jesus **you are now finding comfort with there still exists the problem of suffering. You may have all these good feelings coming from this God now but sooner or later the question of suffering will rear its ugly head and torment you again.

This God that I believe in - my Father - is comparable to God the Father of the Trinity, so he isn’t or should not be foreign to you. He is the true God and I can recognize this by His fruit
The false Jesus god I had bought forth the fruits of depression, anxiety, a paralyzing fear of hell and damnation, hopelessness and misery.
God my Father brings forth fruits like happiness, joy, wisdom, perseverance and acceptance.

Suffering already has reared its ugly head and I have prayed to my Father about it. His response was not one of ‘why’ it happens etc. It was simply that the root of suffering and evil is disobedience, other times suffering just happens for no observable reason - but what he helped me understand is that what is important is to not try to avoid suffering or seek it but rather accept it and trust that it is occurring for some present or eventual good reason and He will give the strength to endure it. Did you know endurance is a fruit of true faith? sometimes suffering helps train and develop this (i think)

You can try to find comfort in a nameless, faceless God but I am almost 100% certain that you will come back to the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church. No matter how many times you leave Christ and his Church He will always welcome you back.

My God is not nameless and faceless - I asked Him what his name was and he told el ahava, el emet and that means God of Love and God of Truth in hebrew - and I don’t know hebrew so I didn’t make that up! I also felt in prayer “hashem” and I also found out that is how Jews refer to the sacred Name of God. I don’t know hebrew.

My God is the Father - besides he doesn’t have to have a name like ‘Jesus’ to be familiar and knowable.
Do you know what he taught me today?
He taught me and helped me understand that our relationship should and must be one of unconditional love - not just Him loving me unconditionally, but ME loving HIM unconditionally … even when I suffer, even when I’m miserable, even when I doubt AND to love unconditionally it to measure love by what you get in return. Our relationship has to be ideally one of unconditional love - he loves me despite my imperfections … now I have to love Him as the complete perfection, regardless of consolations or rewards.
I have to love Him even if I get nothing in return!

sorry, I’m rambling on now. These are why I know this God is real as opposed to the ‘Jesus’ I always knew

God the Father also revealed to me and helped me understand that I must love His Word and His spirit because His Word is like His Heart and His Spirit is like is soul

Please don’t tell me my Father is not a real God because He is:yup: :dancing:

 

[uglygal]

:console: hope you’re feeling well soon.

Sounds like you might indeed have been sold a false bill of goods.

For one thing whoever told you about 300 days off purgatory had their information wrong. For any prayer that had a ‘300 days’ indulgence, what that means is that the prayer was considered to be worth 300 days of penance under the old canonical style of penance where you might spend a certain amount of time fasting on bread and water.

Has nothing to do with ‘time off’ purgatory, which is most likely outside of time anyway. Think of all those people who are there at the Final Judgement who still have punishment left to serve. It can’t be temporal punishment because that very same instant ALL of us immediately go to our final destination (heaven or hell). So it sounds very much like purgatory would be outside of time.

Off topic, but the ‘300days/1 year/7 years’ system is no longer used, all indulgences now are simply ‘partial’ or ‘plenary’ (complete). Makes for fewer misunderstandings.

I have long felt in praying to God my Father that “purgatory” is not a place of punishment but mercy and is like the “changing / wash rooms” at the front of heaven’s gates where those who are not fully ready to enter heaven can “freshen up” as they say

In my catholic years it was a place of hellish suffering, where people are locked up for 500 - 1000 years and are kept in fires - whilst we on earth can “gather” prayers like pennies to ransom them

what do you think?

 

[BlaineTog]

I have long felt in praying to God my Father that “purgatory” is not a place of punishment but mercy and is like the “changing / wash rooms” at the front of heaven’s gates where those who are not fully ready to enter heaven can “freshen up” as they say

In my catholic years it was a place of hellish suffering, where people are locked up for 500 - 1000 years and are kept in fires - whilst we on earth can “gather” prayers like pennies to ransom them

what do you think?

The orthodox Roman Catholic view is of the former. Purgatory is a place where the effects of your sins are washed away.

 

[Valke2]

I don’t think He’d object to you seeing a doctor.

 

[JRKH]

sorry, I’m rambling on now. These are why I know this God is real as opposed to the ‘Jesus’ I always knew

God the Father also revealed to me and helped me understand that I must love His Word and His spirit because His Word is like His Heart and His Spirit is like is soul

I don’t think your rambling at all.

I note above that you have put ‘quotes’ on the word Jesus in several places. I wanted to clarify this for myself. Let me see if I understand your meaning here:
‘Jesus’ (with quotes) = The false Jesus that you were taught/understood
Jesus (without quotes) = Jesus as most of the posters here would understand Him.

I wanted to point this up because others may not recognize that when you are refering to ‘Jesus’ you are refering to something alien to most of our conceptions. That we really should not take offence. That you are not denegrating our understanding of Jesus, but rather trying to express your experience.

I hope I have not misinterpreted this but that is how it looks to me.

Also I really like the “explaination” of the trinity. Father, Word, Spirit.

Peace
James

 

[IrishBrigade]

Jesus Christ does not keep tabs on how many times we pray without kneeling, or if we said the wrong words…he is WAY bigger than that. Silly people care about that…

…you might want to be careful about being so condescending of people who observe sacred rituals and who love them…

 

[rinnie]

Hey guys on Catholic Exchange they have the Homily of the day. If you can go to it. Its deals with this exact thing. How ironic huh.

 

[JRKH]

Hey guys on Catholic Exchange they have the Homily of the day. If you can go to it. Its deals with this exact thing. How ironic huh.

Is this it?
catholicexchange.com/node/69320

 

[rinnie]

Is this it?
catholicexchange.com/node/69320

yeah when you go to the main page it will show you how to sign up. You will see different things. I get a few different readings sent to my email every day. Also i signed up for the bible study they have. Its an online thing. It should be here soon. If you have any trouble let me know. you will like it. its a good site too.

 

[Irish_Saints]

Relax in the Lord

February 12, 2008

Is 55:10-11 / Mt 6:7-15

If someone were to ask us what God is like, most of us would speak in terms of a very dear Father who loved us so much that He sent His son to die for us. And we’d be right. But if that same person were to listen to our prayers, he might wonder if we were talking to the same God.

Many of us pray as if God had been absent for quite awhile and needed to be brought up to date. Many of us also pray as if God were a miser or a hard-nosed policeman, who doesn’t much like us, who doesn’t really want to forgive us, and who certainly doesn’t want to give us what we need. So, as Jesus says in the gospel, we rattle on, we beg, plead, and implore, and we even resort to bribery: “Lord, if you’ll let me win this game, I’ll go to Mass every day for a month,” and so on. We project our own smallness and neediness on God, we shrink God down to our size, and then we try to manipulate Him! What an illusion and what waste of time!

God already wants what’s best for us, and He’s long since promised to give us what we need — not necessarily what we want, but what we need! Our task in prayer is to trust that basic fact and to open our minds and hearts to God’s way of seeing things. God’s mind doesn’t need changing. Our minds and hearts do. They need to be reshaped into God’s likeness.

So relax in the Lord. Trust His love for you, and let Him reshape your heart. Real contentment will be your reward.

Msgr. Dennis Clark, Ph.D.

 

[uglygal]

Jesus Christ does not keep tabs on how many times we pray without kneeling, or if we said the wrong words…he is WAY bigger than that. Silly people care about that…

…you might want to be careful about being so condescending of people who observe sacred rituals and who love them…

I’m sorry if I have come across like that, I don’t intend to be condescending to anyone, so I apologize if I have given that impression or upset anyone.

in turn, some catholics are condescending of people who don’t observe rituals. Just a general observation, not of anyone in this thread but just in general.