Why I reject Jesus

[uglygal]

I note above that you have put ‘quotes’ on the word Jesus in several places. I wanted to clarify this for myself. Let me see if I understand your meaning here:
‘Jesus’ (with quotes) = The false Jesus that you were taught/understood
Jesus (without quotes) = Jesus as most of the posters here would understand Him.

I wanted to point this up because others may not recognize that when you are refering to ‘Jesus’ you are refering to something alien to most of our conceptions. That we really should not take offence. That you are not denegrating our understanding of Jesus, but rather trying to express your experience.

yes that’s right

I have a question … what would a catholic think is wrong with God my Father? Why do you think His not the True God?

 

[rinnie]

Im not sure I understand what your question is. But yes a Catholic does call God, God the Father. And Yes he is the true God.

 

[JRKH]

yes that’s right

I have a question … what would a catholic think is wrong with God my Father? Why do you think His not the True God?

I wish I had the answer to that one.
I understand your concern that people don’t seem satisfied with your belief in God without an equally strong belief in Jesus.

Be that as it may, Jesus taught us to pray to the father, not to Him. He taught us to trust the Father. It was toward the father that he continually directed us.
Jesus is our savior, that I accept. He returned to us the Holy Spirit to be our comfort and guide. He demonstrated the great power of a man completely at God’s will.

Anyway, I guess I was just trying to clarify for the benefit of others since I’ve seen how some of the posts get sidetracked.

Peace
James

 

[fhansen]

yes that’s right

I have a question … what would a catholic think is wrong with God my Father? Why do you think His not the True God?

I think that if the truth be known, much of how you describe the Father has been revealed to the world through Jesus. In other words, if Jesus had not come, would the God you know look the same?

 

[uglygal]

I think that if the truth be known, much of how you describe the Father has been revealed to the world through Jesus. In other words, if Jesus had not come, would the God you know look the same?

Yes because I have come to know Him independent of ‘Jesus’. He is separate and very different to jesus

 

[InLight247]

Yes because I have come to know Him independent of ‘Jesus’. He is separate and very different to jesus

Questions to OP:

How did you come to know the Father God?
Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
When Jesus was baptized, didn’t Father God said, “This is my beloved Son”?
If you believe in Bible, and believe in the Father, why do you have problem to
believe the Father’s words?
Or, is this God you believe in is a totally different God from the one in the Bible?

I did not read every post on this thread, but just by reading your last post,
the above questions immediately popped into my mind, so I think to ask.

God bless.

 

[JRKH]

Questions to OP:

How did you come to know the Father God?
Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
When Jesus was baptized, didn’t Father God said, “This is my beloved Son”?
If you believe in Bible, and believe in the Father, why do you have problem to
believe the Father’s words?
Or, is this God you believe in is a totally different God from the one in the Bible?

I did not read every post on this thread, but just by reading your last post,
the above questions immediately popped into my mind, so I think to ask.

God bless.

Sorry to butt in, but I suggest that InLight should take the time to read all of the posts in this thread. Perhaps you would understand better.

James

 

[InLight247]

Sorry to butt in, but I suggest that InLight should take the time to read all of the posts in this thread. Perhaps you would understand better.

James

James, while I did not read every post, I did read OP’s posts, and quite a few others, including yours.

I came up the questions by reading **her **posts, and her latest one leads to my questions. I hope OP will answer these specific questions. Lot of times by answering questions, our thoghts and theories become more clear to both ourselves and to others.

 

[Valke2]

I’ve had quite a few conversations and experiences with God. He has yet to tell me or show me how to tell someone that how they communicate with God is wrong. Come to think of it, He never actually told me my way was right.

 

[cecilia97]

Jesus Christ does not keep tabs on how many times we pray without kneeling, or if we said the wrong words…he is WAY bigger than that. Silly people care about that…

…you might want to be careful about being so condescending of people who observe sacred rituals and who love them…

My meaning was that we’re ALL silly. I kneel when I pray so I’m in the boat with you! We may care and that’s OK if it’s not getting in the way of our faith. God, I think, does not care so much about the kneeling. He sees our hearts.

 

[cecilia97]

I’m sorry if I have come across like that, I don’t intend to be condescending to anyone, so I apologize if I have given that impression or upset anyone.

in turn, some catholics are condescending of people who don’t observe rituals. Just a general observation, not of anyone in this thread but just in general.

oh, no uglygal, he was complaining at me, not you. The meaning behind my post, that silly people care about the details and we’re all silly when compared to the Almighty, did not come across on the computer monitor as intended.

 

[uglygal]

I will try to answer the best I can …

Questions to OP: How did you come to know the Father God?

I didn’t know Him at first but He knew me and was always with me. He opened my eyes so I could see Him and he entered my life slowly so that I became familiar with Him not by names and doctrines but by His relationship to me. What I know of Him is what he has revealed to me in His relationship with me and my experiences … and what I have found, not by nice words and promises, but by action - is that He is always with me and does not leave me. He is loyal and faithful. I have come to know Him not because I have attained union with Him, but because He decided to unite Himself to me. This is a hard question to answer but I have done the best I can.

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

I did once. Now I think some passages of the Bible are beautiful and do speak of the Father, but the Father isn’t confined to a Holy Book. He exists and is who He is regardless if a Holy Book is written about Him or not. I believe the word of God is every law - physical and moral - that governs the universe. It is the Father’s will. In turn the word of God is not confined to a holy book either. To me the word of God isn’t written word on a piece of paper, but it is living and governing the whole world.

When Jesus was baptized, didn’t Father God said, “This is my beloved Son”?

… according to the Bible. One thing I know is that the ‘Jesus’ I knew had nothing to do with the Father. The fruits he bought forth in my life were anxiety, panic attacks, depression, fear of hell and damnation, self hatred, self mutilation, being suicidal etc. These things are not of God.

If you believe in Bible, and believe in the Father, why do you have problem to believe the Father’s words?

… assuming I believe in the Bible. Once again I do not believe the Father’s words are just words on a piece of paper. I believe His Word is living and is everywhere in this world, governing the physical world, spiritual and moral. They are the Word I believe in.

Or, is this God you believe in is a totally different God from the one in the Bible?

… if the God I have been describing throughout my posts is not like the one in the Bible then I suppose He is different. I believe my Father is the One God who revealed Himself as I AM to Moses and continues to reveal Himself to those who seek Him. He is the most loving of Father’s - firm but fair and just, compassionate, patient, gentle, merciful and forgiving. Accepting of my human frailty and patient with my failings. Instead of preaching to me self-hate and despising yourself - he teaches me to accept myself and love my human frailty and weakness because the weaker I am, the more broken my pride is and He loves those who are weak and humble. (I’m not implying that I am these things, just that humility is what He desires in people).

I hope that’s answered your questions

Be that as it may, Jesus taught us to pray to the father, not to Him. He taught us to trust the Father. It was toward the father that he continually directed us.

Then why don’t Catholic’s do this … you always pray to Jesus and mention the Father only in passing? Furthermore, if this were true, why would I get asked if the Father i believe in is a different God to your Christian one, if your Jesus directed you to pray to the Father ?
You have more novena’s to St Therese than to the Father, the only devotion to the Father I have come across is Mother Eugenia - the entire focus is Jesus - not the Father? This doesn’t make sense to me
(when I wrote ‘you’ it meant catholics/christians in general, not you specifically)

 

[Magicsilence]

I’m sorry if I have come across like that, I don’t intend to be condescending to anyone, so I apologize if I have given that impression or upset anyone.

in turn, some catholics are condescending of people who don’t observe rituals. Just a general observation, not of anyone in this thread but just in general.

Hey UG,

I get what you say too, being afraid of Jesus and hell etc…

But, it is slowly dawning on me, that it is my own visual impression of Christ, my imagination of him being ‘like this’ or ‘like that’ that fuels any fear.

I would often say to myself something like ‘Jesus wants me to pray 3 rosaries a day’, and then I would fail, and think 'I failed Jesus, and he is asking me to do unrealistic things!!", ‘Great, now I’m going to hell, and Jesus doesn’t care, or he does care and ‘loves’ me, but I’ll never be good enough for him and his perfect standards’.

But, loving Jesus is often like being exposed to a rich, purifying flame. It mighty hurts, and just when you want it to stop the most, it doesn’t, but at the end, the soul glistens with grace.

I know that whenever (and I truly mean whenever) I have felt that Jesus was being horrible, or being unreasonable, or not helping me out, it was his (in)action that led me to greater things, despite it feeling like the wrong thing at the time.

The closer I grow to Jesus, the bigger the gap I see between Him and I, but the more I learn to bridge the gap.

God Bless you,

 

[cecilia97]

yes that’s right

I have a question … what would a catholic think is wrong with God my Father? Why do you think His not the True God?

This isn’t “official”, this is one Catholic’s understanding. I think it’s great that you seem to know and understand God the Father. But Catholics believe that the Trinity is indivisible. i.e…wherever the Father is, the Son and Spirit are also there. Wherever Jesus is, the Father and the Spirit are with Him.

So even when you pray to God the Father, we believe you’re also praying to Jesus, whether you know it or not. And all the good things you’ve recieved from God and the prayers you’ve had answered and the love you feel…that comes from Jesus too. It’s just a little bit of a different idea for Catholics.

But please don’t let that scare you!

 

[JRKH]

Be that as it may, Jesus taught us to pray to the father, not to Him. He taught us to trust the Father. It was toward the father that he continually directed us.

Because Jesus (The Word made flesh) is the connection between God and man; The savior and intermediary. As someone else pointed out, Christians believe in a triune God (Though no one can understand it). Therefore praying to one is praying to all.

In the case of your experience we have this “Jesus” image that is negative. Unfortunately, no matter how much you explain it here there will be people who assume you and they are talking about the same “Jesus”…

Personally, I developed a habit of praying to my Father in Heaven when I was away from the Church. It really is the way Jesus directed us. I tend to look at the humanity of Jesus more than His divinity. To me, He is the conduit through which God returned the HS to man. His life, ministry and death are a model to follow on our journey to the Father.

Peace
James

 

[InLight247]

I will try to answer the best I can …

I did once. Now I think some passages of the Bible are beautiful and do speak of the Father, but the Father isn’t confined to a Holy Book. He exists and is who He is regardless if a Holy Book is written about Him or not. I believe the word of God is every law - physical and moral - that governs the universe. It is the Father’s will. In turn the word of God is not confined to a holy book either. To me the word of God isn’t written word on a piece of paper, but it is living and governing the whole world.

According to your profile, you put “Theist” as your religion.
I think that is the bottom line. You are not a Christian, no wonder you have problem with Jesus. As a Christian, we believe Bible is the Word of God. Of course God is not confined to a Holy Book, God is not confined to anything. But we believe Bible is Word of God, a love letter from Father to His children. Since you are not a Christian, you have a different view. But I think you have an interest in Christianity or Catholicism; otherwise you probably won’t get on CAF and discuss question to do with Jesus. And that is good. Inquiry is the beginning to deeper knowledge.

One thing I know is that the ‘Jesus’ I knew had nothing to do with the Father. The fruits he bought forth in my life were anxiety, panic attacks, depression, fear of hell and damnation, self hatred, self mutilation, being suicidal etc. These things are not of God.

You are right, these things are not of God. Anxiety, panic attacks, depression, fear, self hatred are the devil’s work. I don’t understand how you draw to conclusion that these negative things are from Jesus. Since you don’t know Jesus, how could you say these things are from Him? You don’t know Him, you are not familiar with Him, how could you conclude these terrible things are from Him?

To my experience, Jesus is love, peace, joy, way, truth, life and light. I say so because I know Him. I know his fruits from my intimate communion with Him.

I hope one day you will find the true Jesus, the true love and mercy. God bless!

 

[uglygal]

Since you don’t know Jesus, how could you say these things are from Him? You don’t know Him, you are not familiar with Him, how could you conclude these terrible things are from Him?

because they came directly from him / associated with him when I did believe in him and pray in his name

 

[dchet121272]

To the OP…uglygal…

I have read this thread with great interest in your story. I’m glad that you feel comfortable sharing this with us. You are seeking the truth, and that is good.

I just want to say to you to please do not despair…like you, I was sour on Christ and God in general and felt abandoned after what (to me at the time) was a major event. I was pissed at Him. I asked and prayed for death. It never came. I had to deal with the cards I was dealt and you know what? I came to realize that God wasn’t done with me yet. I hit bottom, had nowhere to look but up…

I stopped talking and started listening. Granted, it wasn’t a booming voice from the sky, but it was the suttle things. A smile. A chance encounter. A conversation. Small stuff that equalled something greater.

We must all go through our own personal crucifixions in order to get to some sort of resurrection. Sometimes it takes longer than we want, but that’s o.k…as long as you know and believe in your heart that God wants NOTHING but the BEST for you, you’ll be golden.

I hope that my words can in some way find their way into your search for the healing comfort you seek.

God Bless you…

David

 

[PazFeAmor]

because they came directly from him / associated with him when I did believe in him and pray in his name

That doesn’t make much sense to blame Our Lord for your suffering with depression when you did believe in Him. I’ve had a lifetime’s worth of suffering with depression and there is a big difference between suffering from spiritual depression and physical depression (due to chemical imbalance, past trauma…etc).

I don’t see that you are suffering from spiritual depression because if that were so you would not be having your spiritual revelations from the “God” you are following now. I am sorry to be harsh but as a sufferer of MAJOR depression I know how easy it is to blame Jesus when life seems out of control.

I am not a medical doctor but I honestly believe that you have let some ignorant Catholics fill your head with WRONG ideas as to who Jesus is and how one is to live out ones Catholic faith. This is where a Spiritual director would have come in handy to help you separate the truth from fiction as to the Catholic faith.

If you felt suicidal, had panic attacks and mutilated yourself when you did pray and believe in Jesus then that is NOT FROM JESUS!..but from physical depression which can make you become SCRUPULOUS and obsessed with sins, praying a mountain of rosaries, lumping a bunch of devotions together and burning yourself out spiritually.

I really hope that you are presently seeking therapy because I know how horrible it is when you get into a major depressive phase and then when out of it can’t put the finger on the true source of your depression and put the blame on the wrong source.

My prayer is that you seek help out in the real world, ignore your own thread and that others would not encourage the posts of the revelations of UglyGal’s God without looking at the whole picture.

God forgive me for my judgementalism but this is my feeling coming from experience with depression.

 

[uglygal]

That doesn’t make much sense to blame Our Lord for your suffering with depression when you did believe in Him. I’ve had a lifetime’s worth of suffering with depression and there is a big difference between suffering from spiritual depression and physical depression (due to chemical imbalance, past trauma…etc).

I don’t see that you are suffering from spiritual depression because if that were so you would not be having your spiritual revelations from the “God” you are following now. I am sorry to be harsh but as a sufferer of MAJOR depression I know how easy it is to blame Jesus when life seems out of control.

I am not a medical doctor but I honestly believe that you have let some ignorant Catholics fill your head with WRONG ideas as to who Jesus is and how one is to live out ones Catholic faith. This is where a Spiritual director would have come in handy to help you separate the truth from fiction as to the Catholic faith.

If you felt suicidal, had panic attacks and mutilated yourself when you did pray and believe in Jesus then that is NOT FROM JESUS!..but from physical depression which can make you become SCRUPULOUS and obsessed with sins, praying a mountain of rosaries, lumping a bunch of devotions together and burning yourself out spiritually.

I really hope that you are presently seeking therapy because I know how horrible it is when you get into a major depressive phase and then when out of it can’t put the finger on the true source of your depression and put the blame on the wrong source.

My prayer is that you seek help out in the real world, ignore your own thread and that others would not encourage the posts of the revelations of UglyGal’s God without looking at the whole picture.

God forgive me for my judgementalism but this is my feeling coming from experience with depression.

I too have very major depression - I think at times I was born with it, and without taking medication I can’t function day to day. I don’t share your experiences, but in regards to major life-crippling depression, anxiety and avpd - I do understand

If you felt suicidal, had panic attacks and mutilated yourself when you did pray and believe in Jesus then that is NOT FROM JESUS!..but from physical depression which can make you become SCRUPULOUS and obsessed with sins, praying a mountain of rosaries, lumping a bunch of devotions together and burning yourself out spiritually.

but … physical depression comes from Jesus who tests you to see how much you love him and sends you crosses?