Why I reject Jesus

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uglygal said:
I reject Jesus – I do not believe in him. Do I intellectually acknowledge he exists … yes. But do I believe in him … no.
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The Lord finds you more acceptable than one who is lukewarm in their faith. “Oh, that you were hot or cold. But since you are lukewarm, I spew you out of my mouth”

I know that you are in a spiritual desert. This has nothing to do with a particular faith, but rather your spirit. I would guess that, since everything went bad for you, one of two things is occurring:
  1. God has found you worthy and is allowing a severe test of you. Remember that He drove His beloved people of the covenant into the desert for 40 years - after 400 years of slavery in Egypt.
  2. You had unreasonable requests, expectations, or lacked faith.
Your negativity requires energy. More energy than to have a positive attitude. Something or someone sustained you all those 24 years. For that you should be content, if not exactly delighted. Many of the Saints had similar experiences, some worse.

As long as you keep searching for the truth, wherever it leads, you will be well.
 
Please dont take this the wrong way, but please talk to someone that can help you. I really dont think that any of us are able to give you the answers you need or the help you to get the peace I know Jesus wants you to have. Please if its a Priest, Just someone who can help you. Everyone on this site has given you the best advice and really want this for you. But I think you need some one better qualified. I will pray for you.
 
uglygal said:
but … physical depression comes from Jesus who tests you to see how much you love him and sends you crosses? 🤷
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Yes, we do have our crosses to bear in life as suffering has redemptive power in uniting our suffering with Jesus Christ BUT if you are suicidal and mutilate your body (like cutting yourself which can come from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder…to use just one example) this is NOT what Jesus Christ wants for us. As I had mentioned before this is where a Spiritual Director comes in handy. And if you look into the lives of the Saints they did do bodily mortifications** but not in order to mutilate the body **. They underwent bodily mortifications under the guide of a Spiritual Director.

**Have you ever had a Spiritual Director while your were a practicing Catholic and believed/prayed to Jesus? ** If you were mutilating yourself without having a Spiritual Director to speak to and allowing other Catholics false views on the faith to dictate your relationship with Our Lord Jesus Christ then your faith was built on a shaky foundation.

Everyone suffers UglyGal, no one is immune to this fact. How you deal with that suffering is what is key. If you are suicidal and wanting to take your own life or mutilate your body that is NOT from Jesus Christ.

You seriously need a good spiritual director to help you separate what is suffering acceptable to God and what is suffering that is brought on by physical depression which is treatable through therapy and medication.

Please stop blaming Our Lord Jesus Christ for illnesses such as physical depression which are treatable… I could blame Our Lord Jesus Christ all day long for every negative depressing thought I ever had, suicidal feelings and so on… but if I don’t recognize that I need treatment or the source of those suicidal feelings then I will just go on blaming Jesus and my spiritual life will go round and round in circles… Being Catholic, not Catholic, Being Catholic, not Catholic

I am sorry if I am seem a bit too tough with you but I know how depression can blur ones thinking and make one put all the blame on Jesus when it comes to spiritual matters that in reality have a solution in the physical world (medical treatment).

Peace to you.
 
uglygal, is there a remote chance you are in the Phoenix, Arizona, US of A area?
 
I am not doing such things anymore, nor do I feel such things - they were the fruits bought about during my faith and interaction with Jesus.

I am not in USA
 
Too bad. There was a cup of coffee with your name on it at the local cafe if you were…

I’m still praying for you though.
 
UglyGal I never said you are doing these things now. This thread is about your rejecting Jesus and what caused your rejection of Our Lord. All of my questions to you regarding the Catholic faith have been in the PAST tense.

I asked you questions and made comments such as these all in the PAST tense: "while your were a practicing Catholic and believed/prayed to Jesus?" “That doesn’t make much sense to blame Our Lord for your suffering with depression when you did believe in Him.” “because if that were so you would not be having your spiritual revelations from the “God” you are following now.”

I ask you then. If this is in the past why are you posting in a Catholic forum about your rejection of Jesus now? If the God you follow now makes you so happy why would you care to post about your rejection of Jesus in a Catholic forum? Please reflect hard on these questions in private.

At least when I was at 0% faith I never could blame Jesus or the Catholic Church for the bad stuff that was happening to me. My problem was more along the lines of why would God let suffering happen, creation and other theological questions I had that I couldn’t find an answer to so it was more convenient that God didn’t exist but in reality it is better to just realize that certain spiritual matters are mysteries.

This thread doesn’t make any sense to me and because of that I will just stop participating in it.

My prayers for you. Peace.
 
I posted it to discuss it. I also stated
How do you explain this Jesus I have experienced? He is not consistent with the Jesus others describe here … why the difference?
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… this is the purpose of the thread

I’m sorry if I don’t make sense to you.
 
If there’s one thing that the Bible and the past 3,000 years have made clear, it is that God occurs differently to different people at different times.

If one needs proof of this, they can look to the 4 Gospels giving 4 different accounts of how Jesus appeared to the writer. Or you can look at a variety of biblical passages in the Jewish Bible. Look at God’s relationship with Moses. He tells Moses to go free the Israelites and then as soon as Moses leaves to do it, He tries to kill him!

IF our biblical protagonists can question, argue, fight and even prevail against God, then we should certainly be permitted to do the same.
 
I hope so. I like arguing with God (arguing in a good way of course) because it teaches you about God and yourself. I believe God likes us to interact with him and tell him were confused or angry when we are. We have experiences and I believe God wants to be a part of them.
The concept of a God so transcendent that He becomes a fluffy cloud somewhere in space is difficult for me. Why would a God who is so distant concern Himself with little me? He wouldn’t 🤷 it would be beyond Him. I think therefore that God is much closer … he is close and he doesn’t mind that I am human 🙂
 
uglygal said:
I hope so. I like arguing with God (arguing in a good way of course) because it teaches you about God and yourself. I believe God likes us to interact with him and tell him were confused or angry when we are. We have experiences and I believe God wants to be a part of them.
The concept of a God so transcendent that He becomes a fluffy cloud somewhere in space is difficult for me. Why would a God who is so distant concern Himself with little me? He wouldn’t 🤷 it would be beyond Him. I think therefore that God is much closer … he is close and he doesn’t mind that I am human 🙂
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Well, that’s paradox for you. An omnipotent, omnipresent being who walks with Moses, talks with us, created the heavens and is interested in whether we are kind to our neighbors. Go figure.

Your post reminds me of a story I read about someone who used to carry two quotes – one in each pocket. In one pocket he had “For me, God created the world.” In the other pocket he had “I am but dust and ashes.” The trick, he said, was knowing when to pull out each note.
 
Valke2 said:
If there’s one thing that the Bible and the past 3,000 years have made clear, it is that God occurs differently to different people at different times.

If one needs proof of this, they can look to the 4 Gospels giving 4 different accounts of how Jesus appeared to the writer. Or you can look at a variety of biblical passages in the Jewish Bible. Look at God’s relationship with Moses. He tells Moses to go free the Israelites and then as soon as Moses leaves to do it, He tries to kill him!

IF our biblical protagonists can question, argue, fight and even prevail against God, then we should certainly be permitted to do the same.
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Good points.
I immediately thought of Job. He certainly had a “testy” relationship with the Almighty did he not?

James
 
For me, it comes down to this:
“Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.”
 
uglygal said:
I too have very major depression - I think at times I was born with it, and without taking medication I can’t function day to day. I don’t share your experiences, but in regards to major life-crippling depression, anxiety and avpd - I do understand

but … physical depression comes from Jesus who tests you to see how much you love him and sends you crosses? 🤷
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This seems to be one of the misunderstanding someone or something taught you. Jesus does not send us trials to see how much we love Him. He knows how much we love Him. He knows everything because He is God.

Yes, we do believe that God/Jesus sometime sends us difficulties in order to teach us something or strengthen us. But He never wants us to suffer merely for the sake of suffering.

Illness, depression, suffering, and death came into the world because of mankind’s disobedience, not because God or Jesus wanted them for us.

:hug1:
 
uglygal said:
I hope so. I like arguing with God (arguing in a good way of course) because it teaches you about God and yourself. I believe God likes us to interact with him and tell him were confused or angry when we are. We have experiences and I believe God wants to be a part of them.
The concept of a God so transcendent that He becomes a fluffy cloud somewhere in space is difficult for me. Why would a God who is so distant concern Himself with little me? He wouldn’t 🤷 it would be beyond Him. I think therefore that God is much closer … he is close and he doesn’t mind that I am human 🙂
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Jesus is very close. When I go to sleep at night I ask Jesus to let me sleep at his feet. Then I leave all to Him. I believe He actually holds me as I sleep. I don’t see visions, but I experience Him. He knows me. I tell Him I love Him and ask Him to help me love Him more. Faith is a gift of God, ask Him for this gift if you want it. He will lead you, if you are willing to follow Him. God Bless you.
 
Boy…I would hate to wake up and face life each day with your outlook…You are in my prayers. I don’t know what all has hardened your heart…but I hope God will do something special in your life to change your mind.
uglygal said:
I reject Jesus – I do not believe in him. Do I intellectually acknowledge he exists … yes. But do I believe in him … no.
These are my reasons;
  1. I was a catholic for some 24 years – they were the emptiest, most miserable years of my life. Jesus was always far away, he was never there
  2. To pray to Jesus and be heard, a massive amount of hurdles had to be jumped … pray properly, kneel properly, go to adoration, go to communion properly – and of course you never did these things properly because you are inherently bad / wrong before Jesus and you are dead to him in sin
  3. All the novenas I ever prayed, never worked – Mary, Jesus and the Saints are deaf (and of course whenever I would say that to someone, they would turn around and say “I don’t know what you are talking about?” or “they always hear me, they don’t listen to you? Too bad”, shrug and who cares, or “you mustn’t be praying properly”, or “you might need to pray more” etc etc)
  4. The gates of hell are always open – wide and open just waiting for you to slip up, whist heaven is always closed
  5. The Eucharist is empty – I haven’t said this publicly before, but here I’ll say it – there is nothing there! There is no one and nothing there in the tabernacle. It is empty.
  6. Jesus is a betrayer – he abandons you in your darkest hour and pretends you don’t exist and he can’t hear you because he is “testing you to see how much you love him”. In your darkest hour he performs his “loving” disappearing act
  7. He provides false hope – “I am with you until the end of time” but I can’t stand you and abandon you in the darkest hour, “I came to give you life and life to the full” but the sorrow and injustice you suffer is MY doing, it is a cross I have specifically given to you to torment you with to test how much you love me
  8. Those who are holy and special to Him are the vilest people I have ever known
  9. He talks about love but these words are empty. The only reason I told him i love him at church was because if I didn’t I would automatically go to hell – his every command and every “kind” gesture must be paid for with human misery and damnation
  10. Jesus is never on your side - he will side with anyone against you, he will choose anyone over you, he will seize any reason to leave you … and say he loves you while he does it
These are the core reasons, as you can see they are not so much theological “bible quote” reasons but reasons of experience. If anyone chooses to respond, I must admit Bible quotes mean nothing to me because the Bible speaks nice words that i believe are empty. Words are nice and all, but actions speak louder. Part of the reason I trusted in Jesus so much was those nice words, which I see now are empty.
Perhaps no one can really help me, since in my experience that first thing that will probably cross a Christians mind is whether I am possessed, or oppressed by demons or involved in the occult, or in one way or another bad and wrong before Jesus who can do no wrong.
How do you explain this Jesus I have experienced? He is not consistent with the Jesus others describe here … why the difference? How do you justify how Jesus treated me or am I (as always) completely to blame and bad and wrong?
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michaeldaniels said:
Boy…I would hate to wake up and face life each day with your outlook…You are in my prayers. I don’t know what all has hardened your heart…but I hope God will do something special in your life to change your mind.
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This outlook is not healthy. That’s why I decided I had to leave - step back and re-examine what’s going on with my spiritual life and religion.
 
I am praying for you…if you ever need someone to talk to…maybe to help you on your journey, do not hesitate to ask. God Bless.

“We also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us.” (Romans 5:3-5)
uglygal said:
This outlook is not healthy. That’s why I decided I had to leave - step back and re-examine what’s going on with my spiritual life and religion.
Click to expand...
 
Keep in mind, that Jesus is God. He is the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity. Anyone who rejects Jesus, rejects God.

Jim
 
uglygal said:
I reject Jesus – I do not believe in him. Do I intellectually acknowledge he exists … yes. But do I believe in him … no.
These are my reasons;
  1. I was a catholic for some 24 years – they were the emptiest, most miserable years of my life. Jesus was always far away, he was never there
  2. To pray to Jesus and be heard, a massive amount of hurdles had to be jumped … pray properly, kneel properly, go to adoration, go to communion properly – and of course you never did these things properly because you are inherently bad / wrong before Jesus and you are dead to him in sin
  3. All the novenas I ever prayed, never worked – Mary, Jesus and the Saints are deaf (and of course whenever I would say that to someone, they would turn around and say “I don’t know what you are talking about?” or “they always hear me, they don’t listen to you? Too bad”, shrug and who cares, or “you mustn’t be praying properly”, or “you might need to pray more” etc etc)
  4. The gates of hell are always open – wide and open just waiting for you to slip up, whist heaven is always closed
  5. The Eucharist is empty – I haven’t said this publicly before, but here I’ll say it – there is nothing there! There is no one and nothing there in the tabernacle. It is empty.
  6. Jesus is a betrayer – he abandons you in your darkest hour and pretends you don’t exist and he can’t hear you because he is “testing you to see how much you love him”. In your darkest hour he performs his “loving” disappearing act
  7. He provides false hope – “I am with you until the end of time” but I can’t stand you and abandon you in the darkest hour, “I came to give you life and life to the full” but the sorrow and injustice you suffer is MY doing, it is a cross I have specifically given to you to torment you with to test how much you love me
  8. Those who are holy and special to Him are the vilest people I have ever known
  9. He talks about love but these words are empty. The only reason I told him i love him at church was because if I didn’t I would automatically go to hell – his every command and every “kind” gesture must be paid for with human misery and damnation
  10. Jesus is never on your side - he will side with anyone against you, he will choose anyone over you, he will seize any reason to leave you … and say he loves you while he does it
These are the core reasons, as you can see they are not so much theological “bible quote” reasons but reasons of experience. If anyone chooses to respond, I must admit Bible quotes mean nothing to me because the Bible speaks nice words that i believe are empty. Words are nice and all, but actions speak louder. Part of the reason I trusted in Jesus so much was those nice words, which I see now are empty.
Perhaps no one can really help me, since in my experience that first thing that will probably cross a Christians mind is whether I am possessed, or oppressed by demons or involved in the occult, or in one way or another bad and wrong before Jesus who can do no wrong.
How do you explain this Jesus I have experienced? He is not consistent with the Jesus others describe here … why the difference? How do you justify how Jesus treated me or am I (as always) completely to blame and bad and wrong?
Click to expand...
Let me tell you. I have been angry at God for these very same things before. In fact, I let him know how angry I was. I, in a sense told him off. Now that may be stupid of me because in an instant if he wanted, I could cease to exist. But he kept me around. LOL. The point is, after I told God exactly how I felt, I softened. I told God that I didn’t undstand how to love him because he didn’t seem loveble but if he wanted me to love him, he would have to show me how. After praying this prayre for a while, I began to experience a softening of the heart and fell deeply in love with God. That does not mean I understand him or why he allows us to go through all the bad stuff, but I do know he loves me.
 
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