Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?

[ForMary]

I mean no disrespect by this, but let me ask how many of you could tell the difference between a Presbyterian and a Methodist by watching them pray…oh…say…the Lord’s Prayer?

What about a Catholic? …uh huh…yep…we’d start by making the sign of the cross without even thinking about it.

Catholics have an identity, we stand out. People pick on the ones who stand out, it’s easier. It is also true that many cradle Catholics do not learn they simply follow. Confirmation is supposed to be that turning point when we take the faith that was handed down to us and make it our own, but that doesn’t always happen. People pick on these people and they are sitting ducks.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by Cinette
A book on Protestant bashing, if it did exist, could never fall under the category of “Apologetics”. Instead it would fall under the category of “Bigotery”.

Please don’t take this wrong, but your response gave me the best laugh I’ve had in a long time. Thanks!

It’s refreshing to see one who has such strong opinions on an issue.

But refuting ones beliefs with anothers beliefs, especailly if done with TRUTH and Charity, is hardly “Bigotery.” Or can only Catholism as the only Christian Chruch actually founded by Jesus Himself, and with a two thousand year history, and the largest Christian denomination, be “fair game” for Bashing and Bigotery?

I would hope that we can discuss our differences and still respect each others positions. Simply because you disagree with me, or I with you, does not mean that I’m bashing or that I am prejudicied against your position. It only means that I have a different understanding, and different evidence to present in defense of my positions.

God bless you my friend in Christ,
Merry Christmas,

PJM m.c

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Anyone who has read more than a dozen post on ***CA Forum ***is aware of the intensity of “Catholic Bashing.”

Why do you think this is?

God bless,
PJM m.c.

I post this without having read all of the posts. Catholic bashing is popular because the wolf (Satan) does not attack the false sheep. (non-Catholics)

 

[distracted]

The other problem with the death penalty, and I used to believe in it until Timothy McVeigh was killed in my home state of Indiana. As I watched the list of his victims scroll down the tv screen, through tear filled eyes, I knew that his death was not going to make anything right, not going to bring closure to the families, and prayed that our merciful and loving God would forgive him.
He did ask for a Catholic priest at the end. There were people who wrote to the paper and said “He didn’t deserve to see a priest!” Really!
I hope that he, too is in heaven, with those he killed, in the presence of a loving and merciful God, who is much more understanding and forgiving than we are-- which He is. Timothy McVeigh was once an innocent unborn baby, then a child, then a murderer, who died at age 33. What could he have done with his life to make up for his crimes, had he lived? Isn’t his life worth something? (I like to think it is: he changed my mind about the death penalty.)
If it weren’t for FORGIVENESS, where would any of us be?
God will save all of us. God would save Satan, if he asked for it. (To quote the late M.Scott Peck)

i totally agree with what you say here. I have prayed for peple like OJ Simpson (not very comfortable to do but i feel we Christians are obligated to pray for everyone, maybe ESPECIALLY those kinds of offenders…). He wasn’t raisd Catholic. God knows where i would be now if i had not been so blessed…

There but for the grace of God go I…

I’m not so sure i agree w/ Mr. Peck, though… that satan could be forgiven if he would ask… God knows, though…

i think its a safe bet he committed that unforgivable sin of blashphemy agianst the Holy Ghost… I mean, he was in Heaven with God… and went against Him… I can’t even imagine such a thing… .

 

[erinelf88]

At Catholic Student Outreach this past quarter, we discussed redemption and Satan. I’ll give the brief version of the very lengthy conclusion:

Satan cannot be forgiven, and cannot ask for forgiveness because of his very nature. Angels, were created with a nature different from ours- their knowledge transcends ours. Their wisdom is infinite, they know the consequences, all of them, of every action before they act. So when God made the heavens and earth, He brought the angels before them, explained His plan for the humans, and told them to make a choice: follow Me, or don’t.

Satan and his followers were offended that God chose to become man, and not angel- Satan thought God should become like HIM. So St. Michael and the other holy angels cast them from heaven. When they made that choice, they knew exactly what would happen to them. They did so anyway. We, as humans, don’t have that kind of knowledge- we can learn at a later date that the consequences are far more vast than we originally thought, so we can ask for God’s help and mercy, and He will give it to us.

When one sees the face of God the Father, one is done with deciding things. That’s why no one can ever see His face, until the day of their judgement- no one in Heaven can suddenly change their minds and go to Hell, and vice versa. That’s why there isn’t a second chance after death- you are given that angelic knowledge and wisdom simply by seeing the face of God, so your chances at redemption are done.

That’s the explanation we were given, at any rate. If I’m wrong on a point, a more informed Catholic should feel free to correct me.

 

[RosaryGirl_777]

Satan cannot be forgiven, and cannot ask for forgiveness because of his very nature. Angels, were created with a nature different from ours- their knowledge transcends ours. Their wisdom is infinite, they know the consequences, all of them, of every action before they act. So when God made the heavens and earth, He brought the angels before them, explained His plan for the humans, and told them to make a choice: follow Me, or don’t.

Satan and his followers were offended that God chose to become man, and not angel- Satan thought God should become like HIM. So St. Michael and the other holy angels cast them from heaven. When they made that choice, they knew exactly what would happen to them. They did so anyway. We, as humans, don’t have that kind of knowledge- we can learn at a later date that the consequences are far more vast than we originally thought, so we can ask for God’s help and mercy, and He will give it to us.

When one sees the face of God the Father, one is done with deciding things. That’s why no one can ever see His face, until the day of their judgement- no one in Heaven can suddenly change their minds and go to Hell, and vice versa. That’s why there isn’t a second chance after death- you are given that angelic knowledge and wisdom simply by seeing the face of God, so your chances at redemption are done.

That’s the explanation we were given, at any rate. If I’m wrong on a point, a more informed Catholic should feel free to correct me.

This this very interesting I would love to go to a class that teaches things like this. Angels are so cool.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

In one sad way I’ll call it healthy for Catholics, it helps us stay strong and aware of our faith. It is sad that some people try to argue against our faith and it is generally so easy to see through.

For the people misled by these misrepresentations I pray for.

 

[wynnejj]

At Catholic Student Outreach this past quarter, we discussed redemption and Satan. I’ll give the brief version of the very lengthy conclusion:

Satan cannot be forgiven, and cannot ask for forgiveness because of his very nature. Angels, were created with a nature different from ours- their knowledge transcends ours. Their wisdom is infinite, they know the consequences, all of them, of every action before they act. So when God made the heavens and earth, He brought the angels before them, explained His plan for the humans, and told them to make a choice: follow Me, or don’t.

Satan and his followers were offended that God chose to become man, and not angel- Satan thought God should become like HIM. So St. Michael and the other holy angels cast them from heaven. When they made that choice, they knew exactly what would happen to them. They did so anyway. We, as humans, don’t have that kind of knowledge- we can learn at a later date that the consequences are far more vast than we originally thought, so we can ask for God’s help and mercy, and He will give it to us.

When one sees the face of God the Father, one is done with deciding things. That’s why no one can ever see His face, until the day of their judgement- no one in Heaven can suddenly change their minds and go to Hell, and vice versa. That’s why there isn’t a second chance after death- you are given that angelic knowledge and wisdom simply by seeing the face of God, so your chances at redemption are done.

That’s the explanation we were given, at any rate. If I’m wrong on a point, a more informed Catholic should feel free to correct me.

This is a very interesting story but, I’m wondering where the story comes from. I’m not aware of any Biblical corroboration, so I’m wondering if this information came from a saint or some other source. The reason that I ask is that my mother has been a real fan of “The Poem of the Man-God”, only to find out that it is not on the approved Catholic reading list. But the stories are very interesting, very inspiring. As for myself, my favorite patron saint is Saint Joseph. There is a website out there about Saint Joseph that alleges all kinds of wonderful things about what we don’t know about this quiet saint and, how we will learn so much more about how key he is to the story of man. A lot of very interesting, very inspiring insights, but alas it is not approved.

This brings up another important reason that people engage in Catholic bashing. They are concerned about what they perceive as our worship of graven images, which is a big taboo in the Protestant rites. In fact their Ten Commandments do not correspond to ours because of the addition of a commandment against graven images which is so constantly decried in the Old Testament. There is a suspicion that we get so gah-gah about our hero worship that we make it up as we go along like some good science fiction story. I believe in the Catholic faith, but I also believe that this aspect of Catholic bashing is valid criticism in many cases.

 

[Salonika]

PJM:

But refuting ones beliefs with anothers beliefs, especailly if done with TRUTH and Charity, is hardly “Bigotery” …

I would hope that we can discuss our differences and still respect each others positions. Simply because you disagree with me, or I with you, does not mean that I’m bashing or that I am prejudicied against your position. It only means that I have a different understanding, and different evidence to present in defense of my positions.

Agree this isn’t bashing, but it can become bashing when either one or both parties in a discussion come to it with a closed mind and with the intention of getting the other person to change their mind.

This change is often signalled by one or both telling the other “you must believe this …” especially if they give the reason as authority that the other person does not recognise.

 

[NonCatholic]

Very simple, because the Catholic Church is one of the last major institutions in the world supporting traditional morality (particularly sexual morality) in this secular and relativistic age.

People want to engage in fornication, homosexuality, adultery, contraception, abortion, pornography, etc., and they want everyone else to approve of their “lifestyle choice”.

The Church refuses to do this, so She is attacked. She calls sin sin, and the relativists can’t stand it, b/c deep down in their souls, they know the Church is right.

God Bless

If this was true and the unity I see on this thread, most political elections would be decisive because of the unity of the Catholic Church. If you were truly united, then you would dominate every state and national election all the time - strength in numbers…right?, which is what the Pope would like to see starting with the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

If this was true and the unity I see on this thread, most political elections would be decisive because of the unity of the Catholic Church. If you were truly united, then you would dominate every state and national election all the time - strength in numbers…right?, which is what the Pope would like to see starting with the Roman Catholic Church.

You have made a very good observation. Unfortunately too many Catholics are poorly catechized. As a result many do not fully know our faith and what it teaches. Or we have those like Pelosi or Biden who make erroneous statements about what the Church believes and teaches. We as Americans have freedom of choice, and some think this applies to what it is that they must believe as Catholics. Such is not the case. Consequently, we have many who are termed “Cafeteria Catholics”, picking and choosing what it is they want to believe as if going through a cafeteria line picking food. I will reiterate again a statement that many reject to their own peril. To be truly Catholic, one must believe and practice all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches. If they do not, they are not truly Catholic.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[PJM]

This is a very interesting story but, I’m wondering where the story comes from. I’m not aware of any Biblical corroboration, so I’m wondering if this information came from a saint or some other source. The reason that I ask is that my mother has been a real fan of “The Poem of the Man-God”, only to find out that it is not on the approved Catholic reading list. But the stories are very interesting, very inspiring. As for myself, my favorite patron saint is Saint Joseph. There is a website out there about Saint Joseph that alleges all kinds of wonderful things about what we don’t know about this quiet saint and, how we will learn so much more about how key he is to the story of man. A lot of very interesting, very inspiring insights, but alas it is not approved.

This brings up another important reason that people engage in Catholic bashing. They are concerned about what they perceive as our worship of graven images, which is a big taboo in the Protestant rites. In fact their Ten Commandments do not correspond to ours because of the addition of a commandment against graven images which is so constantly decried in the Old Testament. There is a suspicion that we get so gah-gah about our hero worship that we make it up as we go along like some good science fiction story. I believe in the Catholic faith, but I also believe that this aspect of Catholic bashing is valid criticism in many cases.

Reply:

I believe that anything that that is not contrary to RCC Doctrinal, Dogmatic or Sacred Tradition, AND brings us somehow in closer relationship with God, is OK with the RCC and God.

We need not believe in Divine Appearances, nor must we accept undefined miracles. There is an element of applying our God given intellect and free-wills to these issues.

However, Satan is real, and realy tricky, so take care. Bring any concerns to your priest, who God willing, will give your proper advice.

God bless and Merry Christmas,

PJM m.c.

 

[wynnejj]

Reply:

I believe that anything that that is not contrary to RCC Doctrinal, Dogmatic or Sacred Tradition, AND brings us somehow in closer relationship with God, is OK with the RCC and God.

We need not believe in Divine Appearances, nor must we accept undefined miracles. There is an element of applying our God given intellect and free-wills to these issues.

However, Satan is real, and realy tricky, so take care. Bring any concerns to your priest, who God willing, will give your proper advice.

God bless and Merry Christmas,

PJM m.c.

It may be OK personally or to write a book about one’s theories if disclaimed as theory, but it is very bad form to evangelize with made-up stories. No wonder that skeptics think evangelicals are just travelling salesman who will hook you with whatever works.

 

[PJM]

Agree this isn’t bashing, but it can become bashing when either one or both parties in a discussion come to it with a closed mind and with the intention of getting the other person to change their mind.

My dear friend in Christ,

The reason I participate in this forum is precisely to get non-Catholic-Christians to change there minds, so that they can come to a fuller and intimate relationship with our God.

**I do not insist that others accept our beliefs and practices, **however I do try to share The truth, (there can only be one truth for any specific issue, otherwise there would be no truth) and to support it with bibical evidence. In fact I am morrally accountable to do so. Mt. 28:19-20

“19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

This change is often signalled by one or both telling the other “you must believe this …” especially if they give the reason as authority that the other person does not recognise.

The issue of not accepting authority is at times devisisve, however
if one chooses not to accept, for example The Bible, or the authority of the Pope, as an informed, practicing Roman Catholic, I MUST hold to my understanding of the truth, knowing full well that I can support my position wirh Bibical Evidence, even using the KJV. One must always share THE truth. You don’t have to accept it but I do have to share it.

**Telling someone that they should believe is not telling someone that they must believe. **Having said this, there are however Doctrines and Dogma’s that MUST be believed if one desires to be an informed, fully practcing Roman Catholic. But even here I couch the mandate as a personal choice, one that can be accepted, as God Himself would have us do, or rejected, which is always an option, albiet a poor and dangerious one, for we alone
use and apply our God given intellects and free-wills.

Page One in the *Baltimore Catechism *ask: “Why did God Create us?” The answer given is: “to know, love and serve God in this world so that we may be happy with Him in the next.”

So you see, our “free-will” isn’t completely “free.” God has given it to us for a single purpose: To Know, Love and Serve Him! Amen!

You are completely correct in that we should not be unnecessarly confrontational, and we should respect the other persons position even if we do not, or cannot accept it.

Because someone presents a position different than ours shouls be an open door, with an open mind, allowing for evidence of the stated position.

God bless you my friend, Merry Christmas,
PJM m.c.

 

[anon5216]

Quote:
Originally Posted by anon5216
I realize that since you appear to be a serious Catholic, you would believe all the Church’s teachings to be valid, and by the Church’s definition, applicable to all people.
Indeed this is true of my personal beliefs, BUT only after extensive study and research.
As are my conclusions.

Quote:
the thing is, to those of us who don’t believe the Church is valid, it’s rules simply don’t apply. The consequences (and expected rewards for that matter) are all post death - with no proof any of it is accurately described by the Church.
May I humbly suggest that your are quite possibly uninformed or misinformed? While your suggestion is valid, it can also be applied to your position. If you would be so kind as to be more specific, I would be most happy to enter into an open dialog with you. One other question: What is your understanding of the validity and authority of God’s Word shared in the bible?
I do not believe that the collected writings we refer to as the Bible are the undistorted “Word of God”. Therefore, all the Church’s theology, rules and teachings based on interpreting those writings cannot be taken as indisputable.

Quote:
Right there is a huge reason for “Catholic bashing”. This insistence that what you merely believe applies to everyone else with this “you’re going to hell” nonsense. It’s these claims that can’t be backed up or “proven” until after death. No, I don’t accept the Bible as being the undistorted “Word of God” (or any scripture or spiritual writing of any religion or philosophy for that matter). Without that assumption, you have nothing.
So my friend, are you saying that you do not believe in the existance of God, or that Jesus isn’t God? What is your understanding of god, if you believe that there is one?
I do believe in the existence of God, however am not satisfied with mere belief - not mine and certainly not someone else’s. Regarding Jesus: No, I do not believe in the way Christians believe. However, Jesus does fit within the Hindu concept of Divine Incarnations quite well. I certainly can accept that. But again, mere belief is not Truth - it can be but a vague shadowy hint at best. As to my understanding of God, I’m actually working on transcending a mere mental understanding (whether my own invention or derived from some scripture or other, etc.). That makes it quite meaningless to discuss my “understanding”.

There are others, like myself, who honestly feel that Catholic Church leaders have overstepped the bounds of believability and made many simply unsupportable claims. Except for their continual pressure to impose their so called teachings on non-Catholics, there wouldn’t be nearly the same level of backlash.]
What claims are unsupportable?
Anything and everything based on the assumption that biblical writings are the undistorted “Word of God” and therefore any claim presented as being indisputably 100% consistent with the “Will of God”.

My dear friend, there is no “imposing” of anything in the Catholic Church. There are doctrines, dogmas, and Sacred Traditions, but one can choose (at there own peril) to not accept them. And OH! So very many have chosen to do just that.

Heaven and Hell are real ! You and I decide for OURSELVES where we will spend eternity. Not God, you and me.
Not the Church or the Church’s teachings either.

Keep in fact two very important facts: 1. On any issue there can only be ONE truth, otherwise there would no truth. 2. The Catholic Church has been around for some two-thousand years! Most of Her doctrines and a great many dogma’s are traceable to our historically provable roots.

1. Truth (with a capital ‘T’) is beyond words. As soon as you attempt to translate it into words, you’ve already distorted it in one way or another. If you’re referring to more mundane human things, there it requires a completeness that most intentionally avoid. Even multiple eyewitnesses to the same event don’t report the event as truth - they can only (potentially) report their perception and reaction to the event truthfully. The two are not the same. What we have in the biblical writings can only honestly be seen as human perceptions and reactions - not the source itself. 2. As a continuation of my previous sentence, the Church can only be traced to human perceptions and reactions.

continued…

 

[anon5216]

…continued

We invite everyone to join the only, I repeat, the only Christian Church actually founded by Jesus Himself. How many martyr’s have died for your beliefs? Since my beliefs are not part of any organized religion and I haven’t already “died for my beliefs”, then zero. Countless thousands have died for mine! People die for strongly held beliefs. They also die because of other peoples strongly held beliefs. None of that requires any of those beliefs to actually be true (and certainly doesn’t prove it).

“Many are called, but few are chosen” is not because God does not make the offer of Salvation to everyone, RATHER, it is because God gave us “free-wills and an intellect” so that we could decide for ourselves," and either prove that we Love Him the way He wants to be loved, or we prove that we love ourselves, our own persoanl opinions more than we Love Him.
Unfortunately, there’s also the scenario of loving a mere idea of God in accord with someone’s idea of how that should be defined. The Catholic Church doesn’t go beyond this from my perspective. I do respect your right to have a different perspective and to behave accordingly.

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one does not “HAVE TO BE a Catholic,” in order to be saved!
I’m glad that’s at least tokenly acknowledged. I don’t suppose the Church teaches that an equal proportion of non-Catholics and non-Christians will reach “Heaven” as Catholics?

However the person who in humility accepts, knows and obey’s the Catholic Church teachings, put’s them into chairitable and loving practice, have an “inside track.”
I sincerely doubt that, since I sincerely doubt the validity of Church teachings.

Quote:
So, challenging and disputing Catholic teachings/beliefs can not automatically be considered “bashing”. Try thinking of intelligent confrontations as stimulating your own spiritual growth into digging deeper into your faith. By this, I certainly don’t mean to simply find more quotes to use as comebacks. Dig beyond the words to get to the substance. This would benefit everyone, regardless of which “side” they’re on or what conclusions they come to.

While I agree with what you seem to be saying,why are you opposed to quotes that speak THE TRUTH?
I don’t believe “THE TRUTH” can be quoted in human language.

Quote:
While I don’t have any reason to ever rejoin the Catholic Church, I don’t feel everyone should leave it either. I feel everyone should dig deeper into their spiritual lives, getting more and more into the substance beyond all these superficial words and teachings and rules and dogmas and beliefs. Some people will invariably decide to leave the Church, some with become stronger in their faith and some outsiders will join. In any case, mere membership and belief - no matter how strongly held - guarantees you absolutely nothing after death.]

My dear friend in Christ, I wonder if you have any idea how frightning your above quote is? Why do you say that? What specifically is so frightening? If you truly believed your Catholic Faith, why would you be afraid of digging deeper into your spiritual life, getting beyond superficial words and teachings etc.? Didn’t Padre Pio do that?
You obviously have little or no true understanding of the Catholic Religion Where else on Planet Earth is one offered the opportunity to meet the very Real Jesus Christ in person, outside of the Catholic and Orthodox communions? Everywhere.
And you freely chose to leave Jesus for??? To be precise, I’ve left certain mental conceptions of Jesus. And also, I don’t see the need for exclusivity here. God has interacted with humanity many more times than this. “The only son of God” concept is a human myth.
What reason? Conceptions of the Divine are not the Divine itself. I can never be satisfied by mere belief.
He loves you so very much that He let’s you do it.

Jesus to Peter:“Would you too leave me?” And Peter replied, "we ahve come to know that you are THE CHRIST (savior)! Amen!

God Bless you and yours, Merry Christmas

PJM m.c.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[benedictus2]

I realize that since you appear to be a serious Catholic, you would believe all the Church’s teachings to be valid, and by the Church’s definition, applicable to all people

.

anon5216:

PJM:

Indeed this is true of my personal beliefs, BUT only after extensive study and research.

As are my conclusions.

All the Church’s teachings are valid whether we believe them or not and yes they apply to all because Christ established only one Church upon Peter to whom He gave the power to bind and lose.

A country’s laws does not apply only to those who believe in the laws. Every citizen is subject to that country’s laws with consequences if you get caught. Just because someone does not believe that killing someone is bad does not mean that they get exempted from the consequences of this criminal act.
There are instances when what we believe or not believe does not matter.

Violation of the Church’s laws also has consequences and though not immediate, they are eternal. In a sense, you are always caught. You just don’t know it yet.

God, however is Just and Merciful and deals with us according to our culpability which depends on our levels of ignorance and knowledge. Ignorance in this case is an excuse.

However, there is also such a thing as wilfull ignorance. And this has a lot to do with pride; that sin that says “I” will decide for myself on all matters. Humility is a totally under rated virtue these days.

So as I have posted before, the disputes regarding Mary, the Real Presence, Purgatory,Confession, etc is really only secondary to the question of infallibility.

If it can be established that the Church is who she claims to be (that is divinely instituted by Christ) then all her teachings are True and binding.

The Church that Christ established is still here today through all those years because He gave the promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail and that He will send her the Holy Spirit to guide her into all truth.

Therefore, any seeker of Truth should address that question first and foremost.

Is the Catholic Church the Church that Christ founded on Peter? The answer to that is not elusive.

Once the we say yes to that, then all the other dogmas follow suit. We can then affirm with St Augustine that faith is believing what we do not see (or to paraphrase what we do not comprehend), the gift of faith is seeing (comprehending) what we believe.

At some stage we need to let go of the hegemoney of the "I’ so that in humility, our hearts and mind will be opened enough, to be taught.

 

[anon5216]

All the Church’s teachings are valid whether we believe them or not and yes they apply to all because Christ established only one Church upon Peter to whom He gave the power to bind and lose.
The validity or invalidity of the Church’s teachings are what they are, independent of your belief or my disbelief. The second half of your claim assumes the collected writings we call the “Bible” are accurately the undistorted “Word of God”. That has never, and can never be proven. All Church theologies, teaches, rules, dogmas, etc. therefore have no solid foundation.

A country’s laws does not apply only to those who believe in the laws. Every citizen is subject to that country’s laws with consequences if you get caught. Just because someone does not believe that killing someone is bad does not mean that they get exempted from the consequences of this criminal act.
There are instances when what we believe or not believe does not matter.
The Catholic Church is not a country that everyone is living in. And yes, what we believe or not believe does not matter.

Violation of the Church’s laws also has consequences and though not immediate, they are eternal. In a sense, you are always caught. You just don’t know it yet.
The Church hides behind the veil of death. Its claims can’t be proven while living and when found false after death - it’s too late. Its laws are scare tactics and control manipulation of the living. There is nothing eternal about its so called laws.

God, however is Just and Merciful and deals with us according to our culpability which depends on our levels of ignorance and knowledge. Ignorance in this case is an excuse.
If so, then lucky for the Church hierarchy.

However, there is also such a thing as wilfull ignorance. And this has a lot to do with pride; that sin that says “I” will decide for myself on all matters. Humility is a totally under rated virtue these days.
Agreed. Perhaps Church leaders could start following that advice for once in 2000 years.

So as I have posted before, the disputes regarding Mary, the Real Presence, Purgatory,Confession, etc is really only secondary to the question of infallibility.
Sound logic.

If it can be established that the Church is who she claims to be (that is divinely instituted by Christ) then all her teachings are True and binding.
That’s a huge “IF”, if you ask me.

The Church that Christ established is still here today through all those years because He gave the promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail and that He will send her the Holy Spirit to guide her into all truth.
You are making rather unprovable grand assumptions - regardless of how many people also make the same.

Therefore, any seeker of Truth should address that question first and foremost.
Agreed.

Is the Catholic Church the Church that Christ founded on Peter?The answer to that is not elusive.
I beg to differ on this one. You are assuming infallibility on the part of generally accepted biblical writings. No such assumption can honestly be made.

Once the we say yes to that, then all the other dogmas follow suit. We can then affirm with St Augustine that faith is believing what we do not see (or to paraphrase what we do not comprehend), the gift of faith is seeing (comprehending) what we believe.
Once we realize that no such assumption can honestly be made, the other dogmas crumble as well.

At some stage we need to let go of the hegemoney of the "I’ so that in humility, our hearts and mind will be opened enough, to be taught.
Would that the Catholic Church hierarchy follow that advice.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[Angela_Tate]

SECOND WARNING:

Please keep this thread on topic.
This side debate does not belong here. Please open a thread in Apologetics if those participating in it wish to continue.

The topic is “Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?” for anyone wishing to continue the original discussion.

 

[benedictus2]

SECOND WARNING:

Please keep this thread on topic.
This side debate does not belong here. Please open a thread in Apologetics if those participating in it wish to continue.

The topic is “Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?” for anyone wishing to continue the original discussion.

SORRY.