Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?

[distracted]

Peccavi;4571131:

I went to an anti-death penalty rally where there was also an anti-abortion rally. I got pulled over by a reporter who asked rather sarcastically, “If they’re so pro-life, get them to join you.” I just told her, I’m against abortion too and she was just dumbfounded.

Seriously, I agree with you. Yes, aborting babies is wrong. That’s because killing people in general is usually wrong (except in self-defense/defense of others).

People may criticize the Church and even bash it, but when all they see is the inconsistencies, the lack of sincerity among many Catholics and the judgmental attitudes of others, I can understand it. It really confuses a lot of non-Christians and it’s sad.

i see no inconsistency in the Church’s teachings whatsoever… In fact, that is why i would choose to be Catholic if there were no other reason(s)…

 

[distracted]

God entrusted His work to all of us–imperfect, miserable, fallible human beings. Naturally, we’re going to fall short of the goal–we do our best, but will never attain His perfection in this life. Our churches are imperfect because they are composed of us! Bashers seem to expect perfection in Christians and their church, so the bashing can be directed towards the Christian church and God in general when they don’t see the perfection they expect that you, as a Christian, should emulate.

the Church members are imperfect, the “official” ex cathedra teachings of the Church ARE perfect… becaues they are, as the Bible, from God…

Also… i try not to pay much attention to Catholic bashers when they expect perfection because this is blatant hypocracy… their assumption being that they are “perfect enough” themselves to pass such judgment…

 

[distracted]

I didn’t want to start an untopical debate, but I happen to believe man is intended to make the earth fruitful, not plant eucalyptus trees on farmland needed by others in order to reduce one’s “carbon footprint” while one flies about in a private jet and heats seven houses.

I think Catholic Bashing is popular because the Church asks a lot of people, and some resent that. And the Church is a known quantity in that regard in a way that many religions and denominations are not; being hugely varied in their beliefs and mores. If someone wanted to bash, e.g., Methodists, what particular kind of Methodists would one target for the bashing?

Finally, I think the very size of the Church is distressing to people who don’t like what the Church teaches. The next largest denomination in the U.S. is the Southern Baptist Convention. But compared to Catholicism, it’s pretty small, varies in its beliefs from congregation to congregation, and is not really worldwide. I once had a conversation with a Southern Baptist minister who acknowledged that without the Catholic Church in the U.S., Christianity would stand no chance of prevailing against secular humanism. It’s like Al Qaeda attacking the U.S. It’s the big representative of all they hate. Why attack Lichtenstein?

actually, as you may know, Catholilcism is not a denomination… but anyway… if it was, the second largest would be, not Southern Bapt but fallen away Catholics… but anyway… i think you hit the nail on the head when you said people attack the RCC because of the demands it makes on people…

(then, on the other hand, Catholics ARE allowed to drink, to dance… etc…) so in some ways, other churches are more restrictive… but i guess the RCC stand on birth control, for one, more than makes up for that … lack of restriction…):hypno:

 

[Triciacat]

the Church members are imperfect, the “official” ex cathedra teachings of the Church ARE perfect… becaues they are, as the Bible, from God…

Also… i try not to pay much attention to Catholic bashers when they expect perfection because this is blatant hypocracy… their assumption being that they are “perfect enough” themselves to pass such judgment…

Yes, that was what I said…we are imperfect and unable to live up to the perfection of Christ’s teachings. Actually, I see the opposite from you concerning Catholic bashers; atheists, for example–they know and say they aren’t perfect and therefore will not ascribe to any doctrine of perfection, but expect much higher standards from Christians who do, and often come across as the hypocrital ones. They’re often disappointed with God, too. Philip Yancy discusses this in detail in his book, "Disappointment with God." They don’t realize the church is composed of sinners, not perfect people.

 

[distracted]

Yes, that was what I said…we are imperfect and unable to live up to the perfection of Christ’s teachings. Actually, I see the opposite from you concerning Catholic bashers; atheists, for example–they know and say they aren’t perfect and therefore will not ascribe to any doctrine of perfection, but expect much higher standards from Christians who do, and often come across as the hypocrital ones. They’re often disappointed with God, too. Philip Yancy discusses this in detail in his book, "Disappointment with God." They don’t realize the church is composed of sinners, not perfect people.

that reminds me of this comment Scott Peck (Road Less Travelled…) said to a priest (Scott P is something of a closet Catholic but, in my opinion, has some reservations/criticisms of the Church & so is some kind of Episcopalian or something ). He saidto the priest that many evil people are in the Church, using the Church to hide their evil. After all, who would suspect a devout Catholic (Christian) to be doing evil? The priest said something to the effect that the Church is, therefore, just the right place for them…

Perfect answer…

 

[Triciacat]

that reminds me of this comment Scott Peck (Road Less Travelled…) said to a priest (Scott P is something of a closet Catholic but, in my opinion, has some reservations/criticisms of the Church & so is some kind of Episcopalian or something ). He saidto the priest that many evil people are in the Church, using the Church to hide their evil. After all, who would suspect a devout Catholic (Christian) to be doing evil? The priest said something to the effect that the Church is, therefore, just the right place for them…

Perfect answer…

Yes! Good one!

I heard a comment once that the Church was perfect before you and I walked in the door!

 

[distracted]

Yes! Good one!

I heard a comment once that the Church was perfect before you and I walked in the door!

 

[Katrina5]

there’s a big difference between punishing a mass murderer who has taken the lives of innocent people… with the deaht penalty and

and murdering a helpless unborn child…

Maybe when/if abortion is ever done away with, i will turn my time and efforts to stopping capital punishment… (in most cirucumstances… as they exist in this world currently. cap pun is not always wrong… )

The problem with this logic is:
If you believe in Original Sin, no one is “innocent”. By our nature, we are prone to sin.
There was a myth recently that the number of criminals went down in correlation with the 1973 Roe v. Wade Decision. About 15- 20 years later, those babies who were killed in the womb, didn’t get born, and therefore weren’t around to commit crimes. This is assuming that “unwanted” children become criminals.
This is not true, but there are people who think we are saving people from the death penalty by killing them before they are born and growing up and have a chance to commit a crime and die at the hands of the state!
What logic! How tragic!
The other problem with the death penalty, and I used to believe in it until Timothy McVeigh was killed in my home state of Indiana. As I watched the list of his victims scroll down the tv screen, through tear filled eyes, I knew that his death was not going to make anything right, not going to bring closure to the families, and prayed that our merciful and loving God would forgive him.
He did ask for a Catholic priest at the end. There were people who wrote to the paper and said “He didn’t deserve to see a priest!” Really!
I hope that he, too is in heaven, with those he killed, in the presence of a loving and merciful God, who is much more understanding and forgiving than we are-- which He is. Timothy McVeigh was once an innocent unborn baby, then a child, then a murderer, who died at age 33. What could he have done with his life to make up for his crimes, had he lived? Isn’t his life worth something? (I like to think it is: he changed my mind about the death penalty.)
If it weren’t for FORGIVENESS, where would any of us be?
God will save all of us. God would save Satan, if he asked for it. (To quote the late M.Scott Peck)

 

[Iwant_2_believe]

Lone Atheist,

If you’re going to be an atheist, you should really treat all religions the same - don’t just include the various Christian sects.

I don’t actually bash other religions. Just a play on the title of the thread is all.

If you feel it necessary.

i think people are atheist (or say they are) jsut because they wnat to be able to do wahtever they want without consequences… as if thinking something makes it so…

Aside from the numerous typos, I can tell you that’s horribly wrong. Many atheists believe that the afterlife is more how you will be remembered than an eternity of judgment; that might be called existentialism, but I’m bad with titles…

On the contrary, I feel Christianity and religions were invented to allow people to do not whatever they want, but to overcome a fear of death, allowing them to do more, knowing they’ll have eternity after they die.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Ridgerunner]

actually, as you may know, Catholilcism is not a denomination… but anyway… if it was, the second largest would be, not Southern Bapt but fallen away Catholics… but anyway… i think you hit the nail on the head when you said people attack the RCC because of the demands it makes on people…

(then, on the other hand, Catholics ARE allowed to drink, to dance… etc…) so in some ways, other churches are more restrictive… but i guess the RCC stand on birth control, for one, more than makes up for that … lack of restriction…):hypno:

It’s not a matter of dancing and drinking. It’s the fact that the Catholic Church purports to have teaching authority and doctrinal integrity. It does not accept the relativism or subjectivity that is pervasive not only in secularism, but in virtually every other religious group in the U.S. Granted, many Catholics nowadays are relativists and reject Church doctrines and mores. But the Church itself does not waver on those things, no matter who wants them to be otherwise. When the Church declares something, it’s not “optional” or “advisory”.

 

[wynnejj]

On the contrary, I feel Christianity and religions were invented to allow people to do not whatever they want, but to overcome a fear of death, allowing them to do more, knowing they’ll have eternity after they die.

Halloween ‘gag’ lawn tombstone inscription…
“Here Lies an Atheist. All dressed up and nowhere to go”.

As a Christian, this struck me as funny but, how many Christians, me included, KNOW that the joke is not on us?

I choose to believe Jesus on faith that includes reason. I choose to conform my behaviour and belief systems according to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. I choose the Catholic Church because of its teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist at the point of Consecration in the Holy Mass. I choose this cornerstone element of faith upon which the whole structure depends because Jesus’ assertion that He is the Bread of Life, and unless you eat of His Body and drink of His Blood, you shall not have life within you. Many disciples left him on this one point, even though they believed He was a Great Teacher. I believe Jesus, because He makes sense to me and strikes my heart as I study His Life in the Bible. It is through His Word as I study it, that the credibility of Jesus takes root. Much in the actions of the support group of sinners that is the Catholic Church often leads one astray as they fail miserably at various points throughout its history. Nevertheless, it may fall many times in its journey, but its Way of the Cross leads inevitably & unwaveringly to the Resurrection.

I remember watching the movie “The Song of Bernadette” where they started it with the statement:

“For those who believe, no explanation is necessary;
for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible”.

To me, this seemed illogical because it misses the people who want to believe. The Bible says to ask, seek, and knock, and you will find the Truth That Is Out There. You can picture me at home with a poster “I Want To Believe”, but instead of a UFO there is the Host, the Real Presence, which many understandably find incredible and ascribe the attribute Hoax.

 

[Chancellare]

On the contrary, I feel Christianity and religions were invented to allow people to do not whatever they want, but to overcome a fear of death, allowing them to do more, knowing they’ll have eternity after they die.

On the other hand you are also inviting the obverse side if the coin:

Atheism was invented to allow people to do what they want and to fear death knowing they don’t have anything after they die.

 

[Sir_Anthony]

Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?

---

Anyone who has read more than a dozen post on CA Forum is aware of the intensity of “Catholic Bashing.”

Why do you think this is?

God bless,
PJM m.c.

Well, just read John 15:18, and you will see why Catholic Bashing is so popular.

Another reason beside the un-chic teachings of the modern age is that there is such a hierarchy that is visible and stands out (try to point out a Baptist minister in a crowd), they honestly think they can change the Church, or destroy it. I am just interested at how secularist view Protestants and Catholics. Most of these people would just laugh at the fundamentalist or the baptist, saying that he is ignorant or close-minded. However there is almost a virulent hatred of practicing Catholics, mocking the clergy, descretion of the Eucharist, insulting the Holy Mother, minimalizing Jesus. I feel like I am living in third century Rome.

 

[sauce]

Atheists always need something to Athe-iate. Very telling.

 

[distracted]

It’s not a matter of dancing and drinking. It’s the fact that the Catholic Church purports to have teaching authority and doctrinal integrity. It does not accept the relativism or subjectivity that is pervasive not only in secularism, but in virtually every other religious group in the U.S. Granted, many Catholics nowadays are relativists and reject Church doctrines and mores. But the Church itself does not waver on those things, no matter who wants them to be otherwise. When the Church declares something, it’s not “optional” or “advisory”.

also, what many don’t realize is that the teachings of the Church apply to everyone (universal)… What is immoral for one person (Catholic) is not moral for a non-C… but some think that because they are not Catholic, the rules don’t apply to them… or maybe they don’t think that … they just try to convince themselves of it. I think more people get to Hell by lying to themselves than just about anything else… Once you believe one lie you’ve told yourself, its so much easier to believe another and then another and etc… until you are totally lost…

 

[distracted]

Another reason beside the un-chic teachings of the modern age is that there is such a hierarchy that is visible and stands out (try to point out a Baptist minister in a crowd), they honestly think they can change the Church, or destroy it. I am just interested at how secularist view Protestants and Catholics. Most of these people would just laugh at the fundamentalist or the baptist, saying that he is ignorant or close-minded. However there is almost a virulent hatred of practicing Catholics, mocking the clergy, descretion of the Eucharist, insulting the Holy Mother, minimalizing Jesus. I feel like I am living in third century Rome.

did you know that in some small towns, Catholic Churches are not even listed in the phone book??? Not in the yellor OR the white pages… Weird…

 

[anon5216]

also, what many don’t realize is that the teachings of the Church apply to everyone (universal)… What is immoral for one person (Catholic) is not moral for a non-C… but some think that because they are not Catholic, the rules don’t apply to them… or maybe they don’t think that … they just try to convince themselves of it. I think more people get to Hell by lying to themselves than just about anything else… Once you believe one lie you’ve told yourself, its so much easier to believe another and then another and etc… until you are totally lost…

I realize that since you appear to be a serious Catholic, you would believe all the Church’s teachings to be valid, and by the Church’s definition, applicable to all people.

The thing is, to those of us who don’t believe the Church is valid, it’s rules simply don’t apply. The consequences (and expected rewards for that matter) are all post death - with no proof any of it is accurately described by the Church - you just have your belief. And while beliefs, especially strongly held beliefs, are a good predictor of a person’s behavior and reactions to stimuli, belief in and of itself is hardly “proof” of anything.

Right there is a huge reason for “Catholic bashing”. This insistence that what you merely believe applies to everyone else with this “you’re going to hell” nonsense. It’s these claims that can’t be backed up or “proven” until after death. No, I don’t accept the Bible as being the undistorted “Word of God” (or any scripture or spiritual writing of any religion or philosophy for that matter). Without that assumption, you have nothing.

In light of that, a lot of the comments here complaining about being picked on for being Catholic appear as so much whining. To be clear, I do believe there are a lot of people who simple “bash” for no good reason and those you have every justification for complaining about. There are others, like myself, who honestly feel that Catholic Church leaders have overstepped the bounds of believability and made many simply unsupportable claims. Except for their continual pressure to impose their so called teachings on non-Catholics, there wouldn’t be nearly the same level of backlash.

So, challenging and disputing Catholic teachings/beliefs can not automatically be considered “bashing”. Try thinking of intelligent confrontations as stimulating your own spiritual growth into digging deeper into your faith. By this, I certainly don’t mean to simply find more quotes to use as comebacks. Dig beyond the words to get to the substance. This would benefit everyone, regardless of which “side” they’re on or what conclusions they come to.

While I don’t have any reason to ever rejoin the Catholic Church, I don’t feel everyone should leave it either. I feel everyone should dig deeper into their spiritual lives, getting more and more into the substance beyond all these superficial words and teachings and rules and dogmas and beliefs. Some people will invariably decide to leave the Church, some with become stronger in their faith and some outsiders will join. In any case, mere membership and belief - no matter how strongly held - guarantees you absolutely nothing after death.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[wynnejj]

I realize that since you appear to be a serious Catholic, you would believe all the Church’s teachings to be valid, and by the Church’s definition, applicable to all people.

The thing is, to those of us who don’t believe the Church is valid, it’s rules simply don’t apply. The consequences (and expected rewards for that matter) are all post death - with no proof any of it is accurately described by the Church - you just have your belief. And while beliefs, especially strongly held beliefs, are a good predictor of a person’s behavior and reactions to stimuli, belief in and of itself is hardly “proof” of anything.

The rules apply if they are true, regardless if you believe them. If I say don’t go swimming there because there are pirhanna in the waters, and you say that’s nonsense because pirhanna are unknown in these water, you swim at your peril if you don’t do proper investigation.

Right there is a huge reason for “Catholic bashing”. This insistence that what you merely believe applies to everyone else with this “you’re going to hell” nonsense. It’s these claims that can’t be backed up or “proven” until after death. No, I don’t accept the Bible as being the undistorted “Word of God” (or any scripture or spiritual writing of any religion or philosophy for that matter). Without that assumption, you have nothing.

The Catholic Church has much documented evidence of miracles associated with canonized saints that gives credence to its assertions due the incredible events that are associated with its most ardent practitioners. One may discount this as hoax, but like the pirhanna example shouldn’t it be investigated?

In light of that, a lot of the comments here complaining about being picked on for being Catholic appear as so much whining. To be clear, I do believe there are a lot of people who simple “bash” for no good reason and those you have every justification for complaining about. There are others, like myself, who honestly feel that Catholic Church leaders have overstepped the bounds of believability and made many simply unsupportable claims. Except for their continual pressure to impose their so called teachings on non-Catholics, there wouldn’t be nearly the same level of backlash.

Here I believe that you go over the top in your criticisms. The Catholic Church teaches its beliefs and invites non-Catholics to investigate their beliefs. On the political scene, their objection to Catholic politicians who support serious intrinsic evils as exemplified by the human life issues, the Catholic Church is simply saying such a politician is giving scandal by receiving the Holy Eucharist. In this case, the Catholic Church is simply enforcing house rules on house members regarding sacred practices. If you are talking about instructing Catholics on how to form their consciences when voting for candidates against what it deems as grave evils in our society, then you are asking the Catholic to rescind his voting privileges on matters of society that are of great concern. The mantra “Freedom from Religion” is nonsense if one inspects the whole set of laws that exist today. In fact, all the laws are an enforcement of religion or morality of the majority consensus. To remove all laws that hint of imposition of religion & morality would be the removal of all law.

So, challenging and disputing Catholic teachings/beliefs can not automatically be considered “bashing”. Try thinking of intelligent confrontations as stimulating your own spiritual growth into digging deeper into your faith. By this, I certainly don’t mean to simply find more quotes to use as comebacks. Dig beyond the words to get to the substance. This would benefit everyone, regardless of which “side” they’re on or what conclusions they come to.

I, for one, have found your criticisms sound and not bashing, though colored by your worldview as are my views, throughout this thread. Your criticisms about questioning authority are well founded, but like the pirhanna example, should be investigated thoroughly with an open mind, which I hope and suspect you are doing.

While I don’t have any reason to ever rejoin the Catholic Church, I don’t feel everyone should leave it either. I feel everyone should dig deeper into their spiritual lives, getting more and more into the substance beyond all these superficial words and teachings and rules and dogmas and beliefs. Some people will invariably decide to leave the Church, some with become stronger in their faith and some outsiders will join. In any case, mere membership and belief - no matter how strongly held - guarantees you absolutely nothing after death.

Membership, belief, and practice guarantees you life eternal in heaven, if Jesus is God and the Bible is substantively the inspired Word of God, allowing for the human portrayal factor. The “Do as I say, not as I do” problem of man’s tendency to sin which affects every member of the Church will be the greatest enemy the Catholic Church has in drawing people to the incredible facts of our belief system. Maybe that is why so little is attributed to the words of Joseph and Mary in the Bible. Maybe evangelization is exactly “Preach the Gospel. If necessary, use words.”

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[PJM]

QUESTION!

I have asked this question on different threads but with no response. I might even have included this thread but I do not remember and am not about to search the thread. Please - if anyone can answer I would be most grateful.

I became aware of the great number of books written against the Catholic Church and our beliefs when I read Karl Keating’s book “Fundamentalism and Catholicism”. It seems that there are people who have made it their career to write and propagate lies about the Catholic Church. Quite amazing really. Now, my question is, is there a single book written by a serious Catholic writing lies about non-Catholics. )This would not include a book by a Catholic refuting the lies of books by non-Catholics obviouly. That wouldn’t be a hate book - it would be defending the Church against lies.)

Can anyone please answer that question even if it to say that such a book does not exist.

Thank you
Cinette

Reply:

I read a book a few years ago that had as at least part of it’s title, “Catholic Answers” that did precisely what you are asking.

May I suggest that you do a search of “Catholic Apolpgetics” which too would fill your need.

Third. you might address your querry to one of CA’s originators.

God bless and Merry Christmas

PJM m.c.

 

[PJM]

I realize that since you appear to be a serious Catholic, you would believe all the Church’s teachings to be valid, and by the Church’s definition, applicable to all people.

Indeed this is true of my personal beliefs, BUT only after **extensive **study and research.

the thing is, to those of us who don’t believe the Church is valid, it’s rules simply don’t apply. The consequences (and expected rewards for that matter) are all post death - with no proof any of it is accurately described by the Church

May I humbly suggest that your are quite possibly uninformed or misinformed? If you would be so kind as to be more specific, I would be most happy to enter into an open dialog with you. One other question: What is your understanding of the validity and authority of God’s Word shared in the bible?

Right there is a huge reason for “Catholic bashing”. This insistence that what you merely believe applies to everyone else with this “you’re going to hell” nonsense. It’s these claims that can’t be backed up or “proven” until after death. No, I don’t accept the Bible as being the undistorted “Word of God” (or any scripture or spiritual writing of any religion or philosophy for that matter). Without that assumption, you have nothing.

So my friend, are you saying that you do not believe in the existance of God, or that Jesus isn’t God? What is your understanding of god, if you believe that there is one?

There are others, like myself, who honestly feel that Catholic Church leaders have overstepped the bounds of believability and made many simply unsupportable claims. Except for their continual pressure to impose their so called teachings on non-Catholics, there wouldn’t be nearly the same level of backlash.]

What claims are unsupportable?

My dear friend, there is no “imposing” of anything in the Catholic Church. There are doctrines, dogmas, and Sacred Traditions, but one can choose (at there own peril) to not accept them. And OH! So very many have chosen to do just that.

Heaven and Hell are real ! You and I decide for OURSELVES where we will spend eternity. Not God, you and me.

Keep in fact two very important facts: 1. On any issue there can only be ONE truth, otherwise there would no truth. 2. The Catholic Church has been around for some two-thousand years! Most of Her doctrines and a great many dogma’s are traceable to our historically provable roots.

We invite everyone to join the only, I repeat, the only Christian Church actually founded by Jesus Himself. How many martyr’s have died for your beliefs? Countless thousands have died for mine!

“Many are called, but few are chosen” is not because God does not make the offer of Salvation to everyone, RATHER, it is because God gave us “free-wills and an intellect” so that we could decide for ourselves," and either prove that we Love Him the way He wants to be loved, or we prove that we love ourselves, our own persoanl opinions more than we Love Him.

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one does not “HAVE TO BE a Catholic,” in order to be saved!

However the person who in humility accepts, knows and obey’s the Catholic Church teachings, put’s them into chairitable and loving practice, have an “inside track.”

So, challenging and disputing Catholic teachings/beliefs can not automatically be considered “bashing”. Try thinking of intelligent confrontations as stimulating your own spiritual growth into digging deeper into your faith. By this, I certainly don’t mean to simply find more quotes to use as comebacks. Dig beyond the words to get to the substance. This would benefit everyone, regardless of which “side” they’re on or what conclusions they come to.

While I agree with what you seem to be saying,why are you opposed to quotes that speak THE TRUTH?

While I don’t have any reason to ever rejoin the Catholic Church, I don’t feel everyone should leave it either. I feel everyone should dig deeper into their spiritual lives, getting more and more into the substance beyond all these superficial words and teachings and rules and dogmas and beliefs. Some people will invariably decide to leave the Church, some with become stronger in their faith and some outsiders will join. In any case, mere membership and belief - no matter how strongly held - guarantees you absolutely nothing after death.]

My dear friend in Christ, I wonder if you have any idea how frightning your above quote is? You obviously have little or no true understanding of the Catholic Religion **Where else on Planet Earth is one offered the opportunity to meet the very Real Jesus Christ in person, outside of the Catholic and Orthodox communions? And you freely chose to leave Jesus for??? **

What reason? He loves you so very much that He let’s you do it.

Jesus to Peter:“Would you too leave me?” And Peter replied, "we ahve come to know that you are THE CHRIST (savior)! Amen!

God Bless you and yours, Merry Christmas

PJM m.c.