Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?

[twb1621]

Those who do leave the Catholic Faith for another Faith do so because they find the Catholic Faith a little too difficult to live by so they go for a faith that “better fits” their way of thinking, as though you can select that way. That goes along with the thought process that led to so many “Christian faiths” today. If you don’t believe, start a new one” or “if it works for me, it works for God”.
However, it must be said that the Catholic Faith is both the largest and the original Christian Faith founded by Jesus Christ with over one billion members. The larger the target the more visible and the more visible the more she’s shot at. In order for any self proclaimed “Christian faith” to attract members, it must proclaim itself the “right faith” and discredit the original Christian Church at the same time. Seeing as how the Bible is of the Catholic Faith, changes and deletions were necessary for the new Christian faith to seem credible. Even so, the average non-practicing Catholic still realizes the CC as the true Church and has enough sense to know that there is no point in going from Catholicism to another denomination so they stay Catholic inactively. A great deal of those inactive became that way over the last 40 to 50 years beginning with the so called "sex, drugs, and rock and roll” philosophy. The mind frame that “… as long as you are doing the right thing in your heart, it must be acceptable with God…” . I came back from this culture, unfortunately. And look at what has happened to self respect and morality in our society over that period.

 

[Appleby]

Simply because we where the first Christian movement and the Pope our spiritual leader here in the mortal world. Is why others feels that because we are on the top of the pile they feel the need to have ago… It is called envy!

Because for some people the Catholic church’s NO is the first NO they have ever heard, and they cannot believe that No means No. Just like your two-year-old, the basher has to keep pushing the envelope to see if you will budge. Once you get to the stage in life where you understand that Popularity is not the be-all and end-all of life, and that we don’t set our values by taking a vote, this kind of behaviour becomes merely amusing – as you watch the basher exhaust herself trying to get you to give in. The final satisfaction is when she tosses her hair and says “FINE!” and stomps off into the other room.

 

[mark_a]

Anyone who has read more than a dozen post on ***CA Forum ***is aware of the intensity of “Catholic Bashing.”

Why do you think this is?

God bless,
PJM m.c.

The Catholic Church is the big dog on the porch.

Wanna-be’s can slap their bibles all they want, but it doesn’t change that fact.

 

[anon5216]

This is a perfect example of the endemic nature of anti-Catholicism in the United States. Notice ther is no evidence for any claim. The Church does not push its views on anyone. Show me the disparity between talk and walk. The sex abuse scandal is not evidence. It is a case of the media attcking the Church without any comparitive statistics!! I am nod defending the guilty parties, but looking at the statistics, more people are abused by teachers than priests. Where is the call to arms aginst our public education system? More people are abused by their own family members, yet the mainstream media is silent. Even individual Catholics are not as invasive as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, of Fundamental Evangelicals, with their door-to-door evangelization schemes. Comparitavely I would say Catholics are a relatively laid-back faith. So I want evidence! Where is the “aggressively pushing agenda”? Where?

If you only compare door-to-door evangelization in the U.S., yes, I’ve never encountered a Catholic knocking on my door, but have encountered Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would agree in that area, local Catholics are relatively laid back.

However.
Historically, you honestly don’t think the Inquisition was not an example of the Church pushing its views, or the whole era when European royalty was very much tied to the Church? Not to mention all the missionary activity through the centuries where indigenous peoples were brutally murdered for not converting. (Granted, not all those cases were sanctioned by the Pope, but nonetheless, people died at the hands of Catholics). Even today, Catholic missionaries have a reputation in India that is less than flattering.

Contemporarily, in the U.S., can you honestly claim that when Catholic politicians are ostracized for not imposing Catholic values on non-Catholics, that this is not an example of the Church pushing its views?

Regarding the “walk vs. talk”, the sex abuse scandal is supremely relevant evidence. The comparative statistics you mention - 1% to 4% of priests (depending on whose statistics are used), being equivalent to other “professions” - so far a reasonable statement. (There are ~400,000 priests world wide. That gives a range of 4,000 to 16,000 pedophile Catholic priests).

Where your reasoning falls apart is here:
How many elementary school teachers do you know about that were caught as pedophiles and just transfered to another elementary school? How many pediatrician pedophiles have you heard about who just were transfered to another hospital? How many policeman pedophiles do you think were just transfered to another precinct? The scandal of not walking the talk is not that there exist pedophile priests - it’s that the Church hierarchy facilitated their perversions by simply moving them to different parishes when they were found out - where they had a whole new crop of unsuspecting victims waiting for them. The Church leaders allowed this to continue for decades! Even Cardinal Ratzinger is guilty of letting this go on while in his prior position before becoming Pope. What other profession that you know of has had to pay $2 BILLION to victims. That $2 BILLION comes out of your personal donations. Doesn’t it bother you that at least 99% of that money could have been saved by the Church permanently removing pedophiles from positions of interaction with laity when they were first caught?

 

[Appleby]

If you only compare door-to-door evangelization in the U.S., yes, I’ve never encountered a Catholic knocking on my door, but have encountered Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would agree in that area, local Catholics are relatively laid back.

However.
Historically, you honestly don’t think the Inquisition was not an example of the Church pushing its views, or the whole era when European royalty was very much tied to the Church? Not to mention all the missionary activity through the centuries where indigenous peoples were brutally murdered for not converting. (Granted, not all those cases were sanctioned by the Pope, but nonetheless, people died at the hands of Catholics). Even today, Catholic missionaries have a reputation in India that is less than flattering.

Contemporarily, in the U.S., can you honestly claim that when Catholic politicians are ostracized for not imposing Catholic values on non-Catholics, that this is not an example of the Church pushing its views?

Regarding the “walk vs. talk”, the sex abuse scandal is supremely relevant evidence. The comparative statistics you mention - 1% to 4% of priests (depending on whose statistics are used), being equivalent to other “professions” - so far a reasonable statement. (There are ~400,000 priests world wide. That gives a range of 4,000 to 16,000 pedophile Catholic priests).

Where your reasoning falls apart is here:
How many elementary school teachers do you know about that were caught as pedophiles and just transfered to another elementary school? How many pediatrician pedophiles have you heard about who just were transfered to another hospital? How many policeman pedophiles do you think were just transfered to another precinct? The scandal of not walking the talk is not that there exist pedophile priests - it’s that the Church hierarchy facilitated their perversions by simply moving them to different parishes when they were found out - where they had a whole new crop of unsuspecting victims waiting for them. The Church leaders allowed this to continue for decades! Even Cardinal Ratzinger is guilty of letting this go on while in his prior position before becoming Pope. What other profession that you know of has had to pay $2 BILLION to victims. That $2 BILLION comes out of your personal donations. Doesn’t it bother you that at least 99% of that money could have been saved by the Church permanently removing pedophiles from positions of interaction with laity when they were first caught?

Almost everything you mention here happened anywhere from hundreds to a thousand years ago. if you are going to start blaming modern people for things that happened a thousand years ago, nobody is going to come out looking good. Your own people probably committed atrocities of all kinds back in the day,for which you personally take no responsibility and rightly so.

As for pedophile teachers in unionized public schools, they are routinely transferred from school to school; a search of the archives in any town in America or Canada will turn up a dozen of them without any difficulty at all. In Canada the Residential School scandals are extremely well known and have nothing whatever to do with the Catholic church. Google is your friend in that regard. Very recently there has been a rash of female teachers who go after young boys – one of whom even ran off to Mexico with a 14 year old --who after being arrested have proved to have long records. You can probably name some of them. Boys like you giggle when you read these stories. In fact, any unionized or government employed person, who literally cannot be fired, is simply quietly transferred, and frequently anyone who complains is called a liar.

And as for Catholic politicians being pressured to remember that they are Catholic first and politicians afterward, they have the choice to be one or the other – if they wish to not follow the tenets of the Catholic church, they are free to LEAVE the Catholic church and sit in Reverend Wrights Church instead where their god speaks only to Black people. But if they want to be Catholics, they have to BE Catholics, 100% and all the way. Unlike some things in life, Catholicism is not a cafeteria. You have to eat everything that is on your plate. You would have no problem at all with a Black Liberation preacher forcing his Black congregation to hew to the party line – can you guess what would happen to anybody in Rev. Wrights church who did not support Obama 100%? – would you?

 

[CWBetts]

If you only compare door-to-door evangelization in the U.S., yes, I’ve never encountered a Catholic knocking on my door, but have encountered Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would agree in that area, local Catholics are relatively laid back.

However.
Historically, you honestly don’t think the Inquisition was not an example of the Church pushing its views, or the whole era when European royalty was very much tied to the Church? Not to mention all the missionary activity through the centuries where indigenous peoples were brutally murdered for not converting. (Granted, not all those cases were sanctioned by the Pope, but nonetheless, people died at the hands of Catholics). Even today, Catholic missionaries have a reputation in India that is less than flattering.

Contemporarily, in the U.S., can you honestly claim that when Catholic politicians are ostracized for not imposing Catholic values on non-Catholics, that this is not an example of the Church pushing its views?

Regarding the “walk vs. talk”, the sex abuse scandal is supremely relevant evidence. The comparative statistics you mention - 1% to 4% of priests (depending on whose statistics are used), being equivalent to other “professions” - so far a reasonable statement. (There are ~400,000 priests world wide. That gives a range of 4,000 to 16,000 pedophile Catholic priests).

Where your reasoning falls apart is here:
How many elementary school teachers do you know about that were caught as pedophiles and just transfered to another elementary school? How many pediatrician pedophiles have you heard about who just were transfered to another hospital? How many policeman pedophiles do you think were just transfered to another precinct? The scandal of not walking the talk is not that there exist pedophile priests - it’s that the Church hierarchy facilitated their perversions by simply moving them to different parishes when they were found out - where they had a whole new crop of unsuspecting victims waiting for them. The Church leaders allowed this to continue for decades! Even Cardinal Ratzinger is guilty of letting this go on while in his prior position before becoming Pope. What other profession that you know of has had to pay $2 BILLION to victims. That $2 BILLION comes out of your personal donations. Doesn’t it bother you that at least 99% of that money could have been saved by the Church permanently removing pedophiles from positions of interaction with laity when they were first caught?

Ther reason we don’t HEAR about other professions and pedophelia is the endemic anti-catholicism in this country. catholics in general, and priests in particular, are held in contempt as hypocrites. The mainstram media doesn’t report the other cases with the same fervor. And as far as the priests “just being shuffled around” you are displaying your ignorance of what rreally occurred. The priests were sent to councelling, during which time they were removed from their position, though noy defrocked. When the therapist assured the bisop they were “cured,” they were given a different parish. So you see its not as lurid as a cover up as you seem to think, unlike what happens in our schools, which rarely get the attention, because to do so would crticize modern seculrization, which goes against their agenda to remove God from America. Your statistic of 1-4% of Catholic priests being pedophiles doesnt was either. sis you take a simple random sample? hat was the sample size? Or did you just get this number from some biased news source, and accept it wthout question?

Now to address the historical issues. The inquisitions rooted out heresy, and largly confined to France and Spain. They were not ubiquitous. The forced conversion of indigineous people came at the hands of not only Catholics, but Protestants as well. And in the Spanish Colonies, it was the Catholic missions the natives who did not convert could go for safety to protecthem from the overly aggressive laity. The Catholic church was the first to speak out aginst slavery, daclaring it to be a mortal sin to participate in the slave trade in the 16th century. ANd during the reformation, many Catholics were martyred at the hands of Protestants. In England to be CAtholic was to be a traitor under Elizabeth I. More recently, during World War II, Pope Pius XII was the loudest voice in Europe condemning Adolf Hitler’s “Final Solution” THe Church is responsible for saving tousands of Jews from slaughter.
And finally, India. Catholic missions are being bombed by radical Hindus. Priests are being murdered, nuns are being raped. Again, these reports are absent from the mainstream media because the victims are not ones they want to see protected. So I stand by my assessment that Catholics are not the evil that you seem to think they are.

 

[twb1621]

If you only compare door-to-door evangelization in the U.S., yes, I’ve never encountered a Catholic knocking on my door, but have encountered Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would agree in that area, local Catholics are relatively laid back.

However.
Historically, you honestly don’t think the Inquisition was not an example of the Church pushing its views, or the whole era when European royalty was very much tied to the Church? Not to mention all the missionary activity through the centuries where indigenous peoples were brutally murdered for not converting. (Granted, not all those cases were sanctioned by the Pope, but nonetheless, people died at the hands of Catholics). Even today, Catholic missionaries have a reputation in India that is less than flattering.
Historically, those of the Catholic Church were defending themselves during the inquisition but it got out of control and the church then interceded against those who became abusive. That is weakness of Human kind, not the Church. As far as the accusations against missionaries I would expect you to provide credible support for that, especially considering all the missionaries who have been martyred in the name of God through out History AND TODAY including those in India.

Contemporarily, in the U.S., can you honestly claim that when Catholic politicians are ostracized for not imposing Catholic values on non-Catholics, that this is not an example of the Church pushing its views?

Wrong, Catholics regardless of whether they are politicians or not, cannot, must not support issues that are in defiance of God. If they do they betray God. Their faith calls for them and for ALL who proclaim themselves Christians to follow God’s commandments and teachings. That is not over-ridden nor is it acceptable to do otherwise due to the weaknesses of humanity. That’s All “Christians”. If a Catholic Politician can not remain devoted to his or her Catholic Faith in the most fundamental issues and betrays his devotion for the sake of man’s weaknesses, he is no longer Christian let alone Catholic. The fact is, whether someone likes it or not, the only way that any issue under vote can be swayed by Christian vote or Catholic vote is if the vote is of the majority and isn’t that exactly the purpose of voting, that the majority rules?

Regarding the “walk vs. talk”, the sex abuse scandal is supremely relevant evidence. The comparative statistics you mention - 1% to 4% of priests (depending on whose statistics are used), being equivalent to other “professions” - so far a reasonable statement. (There are ~400,000 priests world wide. That gives a range of 4,000 to 16,000 pedophile Catholic priests).
If you are in tune with the gospels you will not be surprised to know that Jesus Himself warned us that there would be corruption and evil within His Church at times just as He Himself had Judas. All priests are human and susceptible to human failure and sin. The best way for Satan to attack the Church is from within, isn’t it? And for thousands of years she has survived these attacks just as He promised and as He also proclaimed, those who “persevere” will see salvation. As far as statistics are concerned, there are over one billion Catholics, the largest of all Christian Faiths. If you want to know the real statistics compare all “Christian” denominations in the same manner the Catholic Church is compared. You may be appalled to find out just how bad “statistically” the other denominations fair.

Where your reasoning falls apart is here:
How many elementary school teachers do you know about that were caught as pedophiles and just transfered to another elementary school? How many pediatrician pedophiles have you heard about who just were transfered to another hospital? How many policeman pedophiles do you think were just transfered to another precinct? The scandal of not walking the talk is not that there exist pedophile priests - it’s that the Church hierarchy facilitated their perversions by simply moving them to different parishes when they were found out - where they had a whole new crop of unsuspecting victims waiting for them. The Church leaders allowed this to continue for decades! Even Cardinal Ratzinger is guilty of letting this go on while in his prior position before becoming Pope. What other profession that you know of has had to pay $2 BILLION to victims. That $2 BILLION comes out of your personal donations. Doesn’t it bother you that at least 99% of that money could have been saved by the Church permanently removing pedophiles from positions of interaction with laity when they were first caught?

here again, refer to the previous response.

 

[KingAlfred]

Anyone who has read more than a dozen post on ***CA Forum ***is aware of the intensity of “Catholic Bashing.”

Why do you think this is?

God bless,
PJM m.c.

We’re not taken seriously by huge segments of our society. There are no official consequences (i.e., Equal Opportunity sanctions) of Catholic-bashing. Protestant America has never respected us much – secular society even less.

 

[AlwaysAsking]

Protestant America has never respected us much – secular society even less.

Actually, I think that’s an excellent point. Religious friction was probably endemic to the territorial disputes during the colonization of the Americas by Spain, England, France, Portugal, etc. as these countries had official religions.

After America’s independence, waves of immigrants from Catholic countries challenged America’s Protestant identity. The Irish, Italians, Poles, and even Latin Americans today have all been considered more strange and different for being Catholic. I don’t think xenophobia is a conscious motivation for anti-Catholicism now, but most people inherit their prejudices.

 

[anon5216]

… When the therapist assured the bisop they were “cured,” they were given a different parish. … Your statistic of 1-4% of Catholic priests being pedophiles doesnt was either. sis you take a simple random sample? hat was the sample size? Or did you just get this number from some biased news source, and accept it wthout question?

Now to address the historical issues. The inquisitions rooted out heresy, and largly confined to France and Spain. They were not ubiquitous. The forced conversion of indigineous people came at the hands of not only Catholics, but Protestants as well. And in the Spanish Colonies, it was the Catholic missions the natives who did not convert could go for safety to protecthem from the overly aggressive laity. The Catholic church was the first to speak out aginst slavery, daclaring it to be a mortal sin to participate in the slave trade in the 16th century. ANd during the reformation, many Catholics were martyred at the hands of Protestants. In England to be CAtholic was to be a traitor under Elizabeth I. More recently, during World War II, Pope Pius XII was the loudest voice in Europe condemning Adolf Hitler’s “Final Solution” THe Church is responsible for saving tousands of Jews from slaughter.
And finally, India. Catholic missions are being bombed by radical Hindus. Priests are being murdered, nuns are being raped. Again, these reports are absent from the mainstream media because the victims are not ones they want to see protected. So I stand by my assessment that Catholics are not the evil that you seem to think they are.

“Cured” - right. Bottom line: $2 BILLION in payments to victims says the Church handled it very badly.
My statistic from some biased news source? Try the Catholic News Service: In 2002, then Cardinal Ratzinger indicated to the Catholic News Service that “…less than 1% of priests are guilty of acts of this type…”
Other sources indicate 4% of priests have been accused. That gives a range of 4,000 to 16,000 out of ~400,000 Catholic priests worldwide. The Pope has admitted to ~4,000 of those. (And any leader of any organization is going to attempt to minimize fallout from scandal - He wasn’t talking under oath in a court of law when admitting to the 1%).

I certainly don’t approve of the forced conversion by non-Catholic christians either - laity or priests or ‘religious’. Your claim of “but Johnny was doing it too - not just me” just doesn’t wash. Your admission of various ‘Christian’ sects murdering each other (reformation, not to mention Ireland) hardly speaks well of Christianity either. Pius XII’s record during WWII is not nearly as ‘holy’ as you make out. In India - yes other religions have their share of violent nut cases as well. Perhaps organized religion in general is evil?

And quit taking it personally. I’m not claiming all Catholics are evil. I’m saying that being Catholic doesn’t guarantee holiness - there have been, and currently are, plenty of evil people in the Catholic Church - from laity all the way up to Popes. If you truly care for your religion and your soul, you will want to cut out the evil where it crops up instead of blindly defending the organization as a whole and pretending there are no problems or that the problems don’t count.

 

[anon5216]

(in Blue)

Historically, those of the Catholic Church were defending themselves during the inquisition but it got out of control and the church then interceded against those who became abusive. That is weakness of Human kind, not the Church. As far as the accusations against missionaries I would expect you to provide credible support for that, especially considering all the missionaries who have been martyred in the name of God through out History AND TODAY including those in India.

“but Johnny was doing it too - not just me” just doesn’t cut the mustard.

Contemporarily, in the U.S., can you honestly claim that when Catholic politicians are ostracized for not imposing Catholic values on non-Catholics, that this is not an example of the Church pushing its views?

Wrong, Catholics regardless of whether they are politicians or not, cannot, must not support issues that are in defiance of God. If they do they betray God. Their faith calls for them and for ALL who proclaim themselves Christians to follow God’s commandments and teachings. That is not over-ridden nor is it acceptable to do otherwise due to the weaknesses of humanity. That’s All “Christians”. If a Catholic Politician can not remain devoted to his or her Catholic Faith in the most fundamental issues and betrays his devotion for the sake of man’s weaknesses, he is no longer Christian let alone Catholic. The fact is, whether someone likes it or not, the only way that any issue under vote can be swayed by Christian vote or Catholic vote is if the vote is of the majority and isn’t that exactly the purpose of voting, that the majority rules?

Sorry, but I hope you realize you just confirmed rather explicitly that the Church DOES try to push its views on non-members. You go so far as to claim a Catholic politician who doesn’t do this is “no longer Christian let alone Catholic”.

Regarding the “walk vs. talk”, the sex abuse scandal is supremely relevant evidence. The comparative statistics you mention - 1% to 4% of priests (depending on whose statistics are used), being equivalent to other “professions” - so far a reasonable statement. (There are ~400,000 priests world wide. That gives a range of 4,000 to 16,000 pedophile Catholic priests).

If you are in tune with the gospels you will not be surprised to know that Jesus Himself warned us that there would be corruption and evil within His Church at times just as He Himself had Judas. All priests are human and susceptible to human failure and sin. The best way for Satan to attack the Church is from within, isn’t it? And for thousands of years she has survived these attacks just as He promised and as He also proclaimed, those who “persevere” will see salvation. As far as statistics are concerned, there are over one billion Catholics, the largest of all Christian Faiths. If you want to know the real statistics compare all “Christian” denominations in the same manner the Catholic Church is compared. You may be appalled to find out just how bad “statistically” the other denominations fair.

OK, so you say that Satan attacks the Church from within. I can’t understand, that having said that, you don’t want to attack back and get Satan out of the Church. When you voice blind loyalty to the organization as a whole and that organization has Satan freely running amok inside it, you are also voicing blind loyalty to Satan by virtue of your all-inclusive loyalty. I can’t believe you try to justify the workings of Satan in the Catholic Church by saying Satan also runs amok in the non-Catholic Christian communities. Do you honestly want to help save the Church? Then it should be Catholics themselves who who fight the hardest to remove Satan’s influence when it hits home. The thought of receiving sacraments from a priest who is under the influence of Satan should make your blood chill to the bone.

 

[twb1621]

“but Johnny was doing it too - not just me” just doesn’t cut the mustard.
There’s a credible rebuttal.

Contemporarily, in the U.S., can you honestly claim that when Catholic politicians are ostracized for not imposing Catholic values on non-Catholics, that this is not an example of the Church pushing its views?
yes I can, Catholics regardless of whether they are politicians or not, cannot, must not support issues that are in defiance of God. If they do they betray God. Their faith calls for them and for ALL who proclaim themselves Christians to follow God’s commandments and teachings. That is not over-ridden nor is it acceptable to do otherwise due to the weaknesses of humanity. That’s All “Christians”. If a Catholic Politician can not remain devoted to his or her Catholic Faith in the most fundamental issues and betrays his devotion for the sake of man’s weaknesses, he is no longer Christian let alone Catholic. The fact is, whether someone likes it or not, the only way that any issue under vote can be swayed by Christian vote or Catholic vote is if the vote is of the majority and isn’t that exactly the purpose of voting, that the majority rules?

Sorry, but I hope you realize you just confirmed rather explicitly that the Church DOES try to push its views on non-members. You go so far as to claim a Catholic politician who doesn’t do this is “no longer Christian let alone Catholic”.

You do not understand very well what you are reading if that is your conclusion. They (the Catholic politicians) are Catholic before all else and no man including you or I should have a devotion stronger than that devotion to God. Secondly, regardless of what “Christian Faith” a person belongs to, there should be no difference when it comes to the practices via the teachings of the OT or the NT especially in regard to your issues stated. Thirdly, I don’t care what factors determine a particular politician’s support for a given issue, it will always be based on that individual’s opinion based on His teachings and life circumstances or Faith. I would rather a man vote based in favor of Christianity than self gain or convenience in life’s choices, but that’s me. Finally, and again, law is voted in based on majority rule. If the majority should vote against abortion for instance, and it is defeated, it is not only Catholics who defeated it. Your thought process supports the philosophy that all can vote except Catholics. Let’s use Abortion for an example. You tell me why the overwhelming majority of the population of the U.S. is suppose to be Christian, (not just Catholic) yet the populous voted in not only politicians who support abortion but so called Christians who support abortion themselves. If you believe Catholics as you seem so concerned forcing their beliefs on you, you are delusional. I stand on the premise that non-God fearing people who are suppose to be the minority in this country are forcing their non-beliefs on true Christians. This use to be a Christian based society however it is now a society supporting the god of convenience and materialism.
Regarding the “walk vs. talk”, the sex abuse scandal is supremely relevant evidence.
If you are in tune with the gospels you will not be surprised to know that Jesus Himself warned us that there would be corruption and evil within His Church at times just as He Himself had Judas. All priests are human and susceptible to human failure and sin. The best way for Satan to attack the Church is from within, isn’t it? And for thousands of years she has survived these attacks just as He promised and as He also proclaimed, those who “persevere” will see salvation. As far as statistics are concerned, there are over one billion Catholics, the largest of all Christian Faiths. If you want to know the real statistics compare all “Christian” denominations in the same manner the Catholic Church is compared. You may be appalled to find out just how bad “statistically” the other denominations fair.

OK, so you say that Satan attacks the Church from within. I can’t understand, that having said that, you don’t want to attack back and get Satan out of the Church. When you voice blind loyalty to the organization as a whole and that organization has Satan freely running amok inside it, you are also voicing blind loyalty to Satan by virtue of your all-inclusive loyalty. I can’t believe you try to justify the workings of Satan in the Catholic Church by saying Satan also runs amok in the non-Catholic Christian communities. Do you honestly want to help save the Church? Then it should be Catholics themselves who who fight the hardest to remove Satan’s influence when it hits home. The thought of receiving sacraments from a priest who is under the influence of Satan should make your blood chill to the bone.

It is foolish and a display of a lack of knowledge to state the claims you have here. You have no idea what went on within the Church in regard to this issue but you make all kinds of judgments on everyone in the Catholic Church in trying to belittle that which you do not know or understand. Of course the Church should take care of the sinful within her. DO you not believe in the covenant Jesus made in regard to His Church? Do you belittle Jesus for allowing one like Judas within His apostles? Or do you believe Jesus failed to handle things correctly by not “excommunicating” Him before the passion could occur? I bet you you have.

 

[twb1621]

Originally Posted by anon5216

Based on your religion you claim to be a former Catholic. Thats like saying you are a former hungarian or irishman. If you know the Bible and Christianity you know there is no such thing as an “ex-Catholic”. As our Lord said, those have been given more, more is expected of them. Maybe you chose another Christian faith that agreed more to your way of thinking. Or maybe you couldn’t stand strong in your faith and you let others drive you out. Regardless, you sound very bitter as though you personally were involved. Perhaps you are condemning all for the sins of a few. Maybe our Lord hasn’t written in the dirt in front of you yet. Trust me, it will raise your awareness.

 

[anon5216]

(in Red)

Sorry, but I hope you realize you just confirmed rather explicitly that the Church DOES try to push its views on non-members. You go so far as to claim a Catholic politician who doesn’t do this is “no longer Christian let alone Catholic”.

You do not understand very well what you are reading if that is your conclusion. They (the Catholic politicians) are Catholic before all else and no man including you or I should have a devotion stronger than that devotion to God. Secondly, regardless of what “Christian Faith” a person belongs to, there should be no difference when it comes to the practices via the teachings of the OT or the NT especially in regard to your issues stated. Thirdly, I don’t care what factors determine a particular politician’s support for a given issue, it will always be based on that individual’s opinion based on His teachings and life circumstances or Faith. I would rather a man vote based in favor of Christianity than self gain or convenience in life’s choices, but that’s me. Finally, and again, law is voted in based on majority rule. If the majority should vote against abortion for instance, and it is defeated, it is not only Catholics who defeated it. Your thought process supports the philosophy that all can vote except Catholics. Let’s use Abortion for an example. You tell me why the overwhelming majority of the population of the U.S. is suppose to be Christian, (not just Catholic) yet the populous voted in not only politicians who support abortion but so called Christians who support abortion themselves. If you believe Catholics as you seem so concerned forcing their beliefs on you, you are delusional. I stand on the premise that non-God fearing people who are suppose to be the minority in this country are forcing their non-beliefs on true Christians. This use to be a Christian based society however it is now a society supporting the god of convenience and materialism.

I understand very clearly. What you are saying is that the American political system is set up for citizen groups (including Catholics) to exert influence commensurate with their numbers and influence. I have not disputed that in any of my posts.

Whether it’s legal or not is not the point. I’m not saying Catholics should not be able to vote their beliefs. The point is that you can’t say Catholics have to impose their beliefs politically and in the same breath say Catholics don’t try to impose their beliefs on non-Catholics. Why don’t you just admit you feel that Catholics have a democratic and legal basis for attempting to impose their beliefs on non-Catholics.

Under current law, no one is forcing Catholics to have abortions. Obviously you are free to propagate as much as you’re able. I do agree, however, that forcing Catholic hospitals and/or medical professionals to participate in abortions is wrong. I believe it should be clearly legally stated that no one, regardless of religious affiliation, should be forced to commit actions that are contrary to their conscience.

It is foolish and a display of a lack of knowledge to state the claims you have here. You have no idea what went on within the Church in regard to this issue but you make all kinds of judgments on everyone in the Catholic Church in trying to belittle that which you do not know or understand. Of course the Church should take care of the sinful within her. 1) DO you not believe in the covenant Jesus made in regard to His Church? 2) Do you belittle Jesus for allowing one like Judas within His apostles? 3) Or do you believe Jesus failed to handle things correctly by not “excommunicating” Him before the passion could occur? 4) I bet you you have.

Shuffling pedophiles around to various parishes is public knowledge. The $2 BILLION in payoffs to victims is fact, not rumor and innuendo.

Because I don’t believe what you believe, don’t be so arrogant as to presume I’m the one who doesn’t understand.

And as I posted previously: “And quit taking it personally. I’m not claiming all Catholics are evil. I’m saying that being Catholic doesn’t guarantee holiness - there have been, and currently are, plenty of evil people in the Catholic Church - from laity all the way up to Popes. If you truly care for your religion and your soul, you will want to cut out the evil where it crops up instead of blindly defending the organization as a whole and pretending there are no problems or that the problems don’t count.” To your credit, you agree that the Church should be handling the sinful. My argument is all about those “holier than thou” Catholics who try to deny the cancers in the Church while simultaneously trying to tell non-Catholics how to live their lives. I have respect for Catholics who demonstrate their faith through their actions. I will never respect Catholics (from laity all the way up to whoever happens to be Pope at the time) who voice their faith in a “do as I say, not as I do” manner while not acting consistently with their preaching.

Regarding your questions at the end: 1) I do not believe that Jesus wrote anything down personally that has survived. Therefore, as a fact, everything is second hand at best. Therefore, I do not believe the detailed accuracy of every line in the Bible has or can ever be proven. Therefore, the Church’s detailed interpretations can never be proven “infallible”. 2) No. 3) No 4) You’re making assumptions that go far beyond the text I’ve posted - a mistake many Church leaders and theologians have been making regarding Jesus for 2,000 years.

 

[anon5216]

Originally Posted by anon5216

Based on your religion you claim to be a former Catholic. Thats like saying you are a former hungarian or irishman. If you know the Bible and Christianity you know there is no such thing as an “ex-Catholic”. As our Lord said, those have been given more, more is expected of them. Maybe you chose another Christian faith that agreed more to your way of thinking. Or maybe you couldn’t stand strong in your faith and you let others drive you out. Regardless, you sound very bitter as though you personally were involved. Perhaps you are condemning all for the sins of a few. Maybe our Lord hasn’t written in the dirt in front of you yet. Trust me, it will raise your awareness.

To be clear, my parents raised me as Catholic. When I reached legal adulthood, I dropped it as I never actually bought into it - rather saw it as a social convention my parents followed. As I do not now, nor ever did believe that the Catholic Church actually has/had a monopoly on Truth, or that everything they teach was “God’s word” or even necessarily consistent with “God’s word”, it would not be unreasonable for you to say I never was Catholic to begin with. Although, since the Church appears to favor form over substance, and I did receive the usual sacraments while growing up, saying I was Catholic for 18 years would also be consistent from your perspective. (As a side note, I’ve never attempted to influence my parents to quit being Catholics).

I did not chose another Christian faith at that point in my life. When I did start a serious pursuit of spiritual seeking, I did not merely look for a group or organization that matched an already formed way of thinking (regarding the Divine) I may have had. Nor did I “let others drive me out” because of a lack of ability to stand strong - as I said, I never did have a genuine faith in Catholicism. I was not personally involved, nor do I know anyone personally involved in the pedophile scandal. All those are fair conjectures on your part - they just don’t happen to fit my case. However, at one point in my life I had leaned towards voicing a rigid standard of spiritual integrity when my personal life did not manifest that same standard. Having (hopefully) learned my lesson in that regard, I am guilty of having no patience with those who haven’t.

I am not condemning all Catholics for the sins of a few. But I am condemning those that try to hide or minimize the sins of “the few” and protect them, for the crime of hypocrisy.

I have had some spiritual experiences that did raise my awareness - just not connected to the Catholic Church.

 

[CWBetts]

I did not ignore or try to minimize the misdeeds of a few. But you most certainly are condemning the Church, the one founded by CHrist, on ath whole based on ttese crimes. For whatever reasons you chose to leave the One True Church. Fine. That was your decision. I cannot accept your decree that the Catholic Church is cancer-ridden. In doing so you have placed yourself in the same camp as Catholic-hating radicals. Some that hold these views can be excused, as many act out of ignorance, not knowing the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Church. But being raised Catholic, you have know excuse. You KNOW what the CHurch teaches. You KNOW the good that the Church does. Yet you disregard this for the wrongs committed by a microspic few. I’m guessing that is what you have to do to justify to yourself abondoning the Church.

 

[Katrina5]

I am a cradle Catholic who felt left out at Mass, since I’m single and have no children. So I quit going, for a number of years.
Someone referred to me as a “fallen away Catholic”, and I cringed. (No! Not me!)
I had a very close friend who is an evangelical, under-educated person, and I had to give up the friendship due to her constant Catholic bashing.
But she didn’t even realize she was doing it. She knows no history, and every time her church has a disagreement, they splinter off and form a new church.
She used to quote the Bible, which made me feel stupid.
I went back to Mass and realized that almost the entire Mass is from the Bible, backed by Tradition. We just don’t do the chapter and verse.
We had traveled to Europe several times and I was amazed at what she DIDN’T know-- like in Bath, England, (pre-Christian) she was disgusted because the people who created the baths “weren’t Christian.”
Once, at some function I attended at her “church” (looks like a warehouse to me) I was practically beat up by one of the women flipping through her Bible finding all the things that “prove the Catholic Church is in error”. I was so taken aback I couldn’t respond.
HOWEVER: ALL of this is what got me BACK to my FAITH!!! Because I had to start searching for answers, for them, and for myself. I started reading.
Catholic Answers was a little newsletter back then. I moved on to Scott Hahn’s Rome Sweet Home, and took off from there.
I have a large library of books now-- Hilaire Belloc, anyone? And a great collection of Bibles!
I am still single and childless, and my church is small and cozy, filled with wonderful people. I learned that I had to be the one to reach out to them and participate. It wasn’t easy, but I knew I was where God wanted me.
God loves those Catholic bashers, but I am more comfortable being around other Catholics. So when a Basher starts saying something that is really just ignorant-- they don’t know any better-- I can answer them.
Sometimes I know the Holy Spirit helps me say just the right Truth, and to say it in a Loving Way.
I am so blessed.
“God writes straight with crooked lines.” fits to a T.

 

[Katrina5]

Well, it appears that someone is using this forum to do some Catholic bashing!
I only hope we will continue to pray for them, and not join in on the same level of ignorance and unkindness.
“Forgive them, Father. They do not know what they are doing.” – Jesus, as he died on the Cross

 

[Katrina5]

I hope that the “Anonymous” Catholic basher who is posting here will search his/her past and find out what it was that the Church did to make him/her so HURT and ANGRY.
Most people in this situation can figure it out, from a psychological viewpoint, and then let it go.
Please, let it go.
If it was a priest who said something, or your parents, or some other Catholic who hurt you, forgive them and then come home.
I will definitely be praying for you.
There is a reason you logged on to Catholic Answers. You must be searching for something.
God bless you.

 

[Highwayhound]

Most of my questions have been asked by others. Catholic Answers has some great information on the inquisitions if anyone is interested.

catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp

My only question follows.

On one hand Catholics are being told to be aggressive to stamp out the evil within, but with the opposite hand Catholics are told they are wrong to aggressively support excommunication of people/politicians which support evil.

So which should it be?