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Bahman
Guest
Why doesn’t God to heal the sick individual? We do it all the time.
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blase6
Guest
Because your freedom is more precious to God than your well-being. Scary thought.Why doesn’t God to heal the sick individual? We do it all the time.
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Bahman
Guest
Is that the loving God you believe?Because your freedom is more precious to God than your well-being. Scary thought.
Why there should be a point without return, judgment upon death?
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blase6
Guest
Love is strange and scary.Is that the loving God you believe?
Why there should be a point without return, judgment upon death?
It is enough to make you question whether this world is real or an illusion. But I am not sure that I know the difference anymore.
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John_Martin
Guest
Since all that is flows from God’s Will, it is going to that destination (the goal of his will), not to the destinations that people think are the purpose of life, such as “an eternal temporal continuation of things as they are, but without troubles”.
As humans, our destination, purpose, is to be in the presence of God and know him as his friends, his children. This can and does happen in spite of (and perhaps often supported by) our suffering of pain and injustice temporally. In fact the central event of all time is the death of Jesus, God’s Son, and the resurrection of Jesus to ascend to the presence of his Father. So, God’s will succeeded with his own Son, and will succeed with us, united to his Son, and all who are with us (all who gave him a drink when thirsty, clothes when naked, etc.).
No one would succeed in this were there no personal freedom yet instead temporal “peace”. Instead you would live 80 years without fighting, then die and never be heard of again on earth or in eternity, but be somewhat like the dinosaurs. You would never know love (which requires freedom to join the beloved).
As humans, our destination, purpose, is to be in the presence of God and know him as his friends, his children. This can and does happen in spite of (and perhaps often supported by) our suffering of pain and injustice temporally. In fact the central event of all time is the death of Jesus, God’s Son, and the resurrection of Jesus to ascend to the presence of his Father. So, God’s will succeeded with his own Son, and will succeed with us, united to his Son, and all who are with us (all who gave him a drink when thirsty, clothes when naked, etc.).
No one would succeed in this were there no personal freedom yet instead temporal “peace”. Instead you would live 80 years without fighting, then die and never be heard of again on earth or in eternity, but be somewhat like the dinosaurs. You would never know love (which requires freedom to join the beloved).
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blase6
Guest
So you think people going to hell is part of God’s plan?Since all that is flows from God’s Will, it is going to that destination (the goal of his will), not to the destinations that people think are the purpose of life, such as “an eternal temporal continuation of things as they are, but without troubles”.
As humans, our destination, purpose, is to be in the presence of God and know him as his friends, his children. This can and does happen in spite of (and perhaps often supported by) our suffering of pain and injustice temporally. In fact the central event of all time is the death of Jesus, God’s Son, and the resurrection of Jesus to ascend to the presence of his Father. So, God’s will succeeded with his own Son, and will succeed with us, united to his Son, and all who are with us (all who gave him a drink when thirsty, clothes when naked, etc.).
No one would succeed in this were there no personal freedom yet instead temporal “peace”. Instead you would live 80 years without fighting, then die and never be heard of again on earth or in eternity, but be somewhat like the dinosaurs. You would never know love (which requires freedom to join the beloved).
J
John_Martin
Guest
That would be a contradiction.So you think people going to hell is part of God’s plan?
God does not love hell, nor that people go there, therefore he could not will it as a goal for anyone, since the will only moves to what is desired as desirable (or good).
Yet, if some one human person desires only what is temporal as if it were the meaning of life, they will have what they will (contrary to what God is doing), for hell is the place of only desiring what is temporal with nothing temporal available to satisfy the desire, thus its torment, eternal dissatisfaction.
Even still, since all creation flows from the will of God, as a whole it inclines to his goal of union and friendship with his creatures who are like him in his image, so this person who wants only what is temporal, in his grasping after it, will unwittingly benefit others in coming to their eternal union with God. Everything (including those who do not want God and kill the body of their neighbor, yet they cannot kill his soul) will work together for good to them that love God.
People are going to hell because that is the place of unending temporal desire of temporal goodness, which they want alone and now, and since temporal goodness is here today and vanishes, that is what they have, no goodness. But they have had impact on others finding beatitude.
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blase6
Guest
It amazes me that you would find this to be an example of a loving God. A God who would allow his creatures to destroy themselves eternally just because he wants them to ultimately make their own choices. This idea of freedom is madness.That would be a contradiction.
God does not love hell, nor that people go there, therefore he could not will it as a goal for anyone, since the will only moves to what is desired as desirable (or good).
Yet, if some one human person desires only what is temporal as if it were the meaning of life, they will have what they will (contrary to what God is doing), for hell is the place of only desiring what is temporal with nothing temporal available to satisfy the desire, thus its torment, eternal dissatisfaction.
Even still, since all creation flows from the will of God, as a whole it inclines to his goal of union and friendship with his creatures who are like him in his image, so this person who wants only what is temporal, in his grasping after it, will unwittingly benefit others in coming to their eternal union with God. Everything (including those who do not want God and kill the body of their neighbor, yet they cannot kill his soul) will work together for good to them that love God.
People are going to hell because that is the place of unending temporal desire of temporal goodness, which they want alone and now, and since temporal goodness is here today and vanishes, that is what they have, no goodness. But they have had impact on others finding beatitude.
What would even provoke God’s good creatures to destroy themselves eternally? Something that God has created, of course.
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fred_conty
Guest
How do we know that God sends anyone anywhere but rather God allows each to gravitate to the natural level to which each is suited for. Couldn’t there be levels from top to bottom in God’s kingdom. The top being levels of heaven cascading down to the bottom levels of hell. We will be at the place where we are suited for, at the level we qualify for, all giving glory to God in their own capacity.It amazes me that you would find this to be an example of a loving God. A God who would allow his creatures to destroy themselves eternally just because he wants them to ultimately make their own choices. This idea of freedom is madness.
What would even provoke God’s good creatures to destroy themselves eternally? Something that God has created, of course.
May the God of hope fill you with every joy.
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blase6
Guest
Ahh, the old “levels” theory which a lot of theologians hold to. It is a harmful idea which just creates anxiety. I reject it.How do we know that God sends anyone anywhere but rather God allows each to gravitate to the natural level to which each is suited for. Couldn’t there be levels from top to bottom in God’s kingdom. The top being levels of heaven cascading down to the bottom levels of hell. We will be at the place where we are suited for, at the level we qualify for, all giving glory to God in their own capacity.
May the God of hope fill you with every joy.
The thought that those in hell might be giving “glory” to God is not only wrong, it is absolutely psychotic. God just sounds more and more creepy the more you attempt to reason with me.
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fred_conty
Guest
First I’m sorry to hear that you are anxious about hell or freedom or grace or any other matter of our faith.Ahh, the old “levels” theory which a lot of theologians hold to. It is a harmful idea which just creates anxiety. I reject it.
The thought that those in hell might be giving “glory” to God is not only wrong, it is absolutely psychotic. God just sounds more and more creepy the more you attempt to reason with me.
But our faith is not built on avoiding anxiousness, it is about spreading the good news of Jesus Christ and his truth. Hell is one of Christ’s truths which he mentions more that heaven.
We can aleviate much of our anxieties about hell by always staying in the good graces of Our Lord and living in his presence which he has taken up within us.
As far as glory, those in heaven willfully give him the greatest glory, and find their own joy, as we find in the book of Revelation. But all creatures give him glory in some way by just being his creatures, if for no other reason than that they honor his requests. By their simple unwillful obedience they are glorifying him in their own way and by paying God his due respect for whom he is.
What I find creepy is when God is turned into an ordinary Joe when even the devils don’t even do that.
May God our Father give you grace and peace.
T
tonyrey
Guest
A really evil person isn’t concerned about anyone else. “Hallowed be **my **name! My kingdom come, my will be done in heaven, on earth and in hell!” Their misery is caused by their vices: pride, envy, greed, lust, ruthless ambition and selfishness. Their initial longing for God is replaced by the longing to be God, to be supreme and have absolute power over everyone else. Megalomaniacs are rare but they are not myths.Everyone has a deep longing for God. Just because they can ignore it and act against it does not mean that the longing will leave them. If the people in hell really had no longing to be with God they would not be suffering due to the loss of him.
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tonyrey
Guest
Many people have suffered and died for others because they loved them more than themselves. If that isn’t genuine love what more do you expect?Love is a mode of feeling. Reason is a mode of thought. Your reason can confirm your love but you cannot genuinely love.
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Aloysium
Guest
Well put. It describes sin as it exists within us all. Some people try to overcome it. Some people embrace it, and are better at it than others. Everyone has access to the Cure; some apparently refuse Him.. . . .Their initial longing for God is replaced by the longing to be God, to be supreme and have absolute power over everyone else. Megalomaniacs are rare but they are not myths.
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blase6
Guest
Yes but the desire to be God cannot remove the nature of the creature to long for God. Nothing can change the ultimate purpose of the creature, and that purpose will always be with the creature, urging it to be with God. Like I have said, how can someone who has no desire to be with God, suffer the loss of him?A really evil person isn’t concerned about anyone else. “Hallowed be **my **name! My kingdom come, my will be done in heaven, on earth and in hell!” Their misery is caused by their vices: pride, envy, greed, lust, ruthless ambition and selfishness. Their initial longing for God is replaced by the longing to be God, to be supreme and have absolute power over everyone else. Megalomaniacs are rare but they are not myths.
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davidv
Guest
What prevents one from fulfilling their nature? Could one of the personal failures be to defy ones onw nature and act completely contrary to it?Yes but the desire to be God cannot remove the nature of the creature to long for God. Nothing can change the ultimate purpose of the creature, and that purpose will always be with the creature, urging it to be with God. Like I have said, how can someone who has no desire to be with God, suffer the loss of him?
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Aloysium
Guest
We commune with God by surrendering ourselves to Him, to the Truth, to Love.. . . Nothing can change the ultimate purpose of the creature, and that purpose will always be with the creature, urging it to be with God. Like I have said, how can someone who has no desire to be with God, suffer the loss of him?
I would imagine those who reject Him, suffer not so much the loss of God, but the being a god.
Joy, beauty and eternal life are to be found in He who is our Creator. Love has to be given to be experienced.
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blase6
Guest
Yes, that is it, and why those who willingly reject God still long for him from their deepest being.What prevents one from fulfilling their nature? Could one of the personal failures be to defy ones onw nature and act completely contrary to it?
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blase6
Guest
No one can really entirely leave God. Since God is existence all other beings, including those in hell exist “in” God, and God holds all in existence out of love. But those who hate God come to hate their own existence and suffer pain from God’s love. There would also be the pain of a longing to be with God by one’s basic nature, and to contradict that with one’s will.We commune with God by surrendering ourselves to Him, to the Truth, to Love.
I would imagine those who reject Him, suffer not so much the loss of God, but the being a god.
Joy, beauty and eternal life are to be found in He who is our Creator. Love has to be given to be experienced.
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Bahman
Guest
This is very illogical: Those who hates God come to hate their own existence? Why they should persist in hating themselves and not escaping the pain unless they are insane?No one can really entirely leave God. Since God is existence all other beings, including those in hell exist “in” God, and God holds all in existence out of love. But those who hate God come to hate their own existence and suffer pain from God’s love. There would also be the pain of a longing to be with God by one’s basic nature, and to contradict that with one’s will.
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