why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[Gabriel_of_12]

My husband converted to Orthodox Judaism from Seventh-Day Adventism (he was raised Baptist, then became SDA, then became Jewish.)

I have studied many religions in my life, and find there is some truth in all of them to an extent. I believe we can all learn from each other in this regard.

One thing I learned from my husband from his SDA days, was what his then-pastor had once said:** the reason why Satan fights so hard against the 7th day Sabbath is because the commandment to keep it is the only one of the 10 **Commandments which described the True God (“created the world in six days and rested on the seventh”.)

In the old testament, Egypt kept the Hebrews from honoring the sabbath. Today I dont know who the enemy is. As far as SDA are concerned, they are on their own. The Catholic church does not contest what they want to believe. If they think, catholics are fighting against them,against the Sabbath, they are wrong, they themselves are making this false claim. I dont see anyone attacking them on the sabbath. It is when they SDA claim that all of christianity is wrong for not believing in their late 19th century christian philosphy, that speaking as a Catholic, only defend what they have been wrongly taught about my faith. If they believe the Sabbath can save you, peace be you, I can only tell them the God I serve is Jesus who is Lord of the Sabbath.

Peace be with you

 

[Protestant101]

**Protestant101 lets get this straight ok; you have been misinformed about this theory of changing the Sabbath. The Catholic church did not change the Sabbath. What you wrongly imply is the word Change for “replace”. You say change; There is a different in meaning here that you perhaps do not understand being that you pretend to be Jewish honoring a Sabbath that Jesus Lords over. **

I am sorry, but you are the one who is misinformed here. I don’t think I stated that your Church “changed the Sabbath;” I said that they “changed the day of worship.” This is a claim made by your own leaders, including the Apologetics people here at CA. The specific wording used by your church is that they “changed the day of worship;” but they are careful to try and distinguish that they did not change the Sabbath; “only the day of worship.”

You should get your own beliefs straight before you fix mine. If you would like me to show you where Catholics make this claim; I would be willing, but it may take a little time as I would have to look it up again in my notes which I don’t have with me right now.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I am sorry, but you are the one who is misinformed here. I don’t think I stated that your Church “changed the Sabbath;” I said that they “changed the day of worship.” This is a claim made by your own leaders, including the Apologetics people here at CA. The specific wording used by your church is that they “changed the day of worship;” but they are careful to try and distinguish that they did not change the Sabbath; “only the day of worship.”

You should get your own beliefs straight before you fix mine. If you would like me to show you where Catholics make this claim; I would be willing, but it may take a little time as I would have to look it up again in my notes which I don’t have with me right now.

You quoted the catechism of Catholic church on this thread, and misquoted the catechism. It never uses the word “change” it uses the word “replace” the ceremonials from saturday to the lords day, again this was done by the apostles themselves who walked and talked with Jesus, after the destruction of the temple since 70 a.d. There has never been a temple of God to honor the sabbath and Jewish feast days.

If you are willing to quote other catholic authors who use the word change, be my guess, but that is not the source you wrongly implied that used the word “change” here, ultimately all practicing catholics will adhere to the catachesim of the catholic church. That is if you are not taking their statement out of context.

Here is a quote from St. Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of St. John the beloved of Jesus from the first century,

“Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath (no temple), but the Lord’s Day (sunday), in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.” paranthesis mine.

Here is a first century disciple who walked and talked with the beloved St. John the apostle of Jesus, who replaced the sabbath ceremonials with the Lord’s day sunday. St. Justin also makes comment belief on sunday. Why? because there is no more temple, why? because Jesus is now the temple of God, whom we worship on the day he made anew on the 8th day. The sabbath was not changed to sunday, as you wrongly accuse. Sunday has “replaced” not “changed” what was practiced in the temple of God when God resided in the temple. Now there is no more temple, only Jesus christ who lives who perfected the Sabbath and lords over it in his resurection.

Please see Leviticus 9 when God reveals himself on the 8th day, and as I mentioned God also killed those you profaned him on this day of the Lord.

I have no problem when you misquote others, but if your going to quote the Roman Catholic church, quote her correctly please. Dont put words that are not there to decieve. So if you hear of a lay person or catholic using the word change, you and I know the catholic church does not and did not speak this way. She uses the word replace to signify ceremonial worship, from the destroyed temple, into he Lords Day Sunday.

The Catholic church did not change the Sabbath to Sunday. “Sunday is distinguished from the Sabbath” it does not change the sabbath. The sabbath remains in the old covenant, Jesus claims the Sabbath and fulfilled it in his death on the sabbath, and renewed it on Sunday the Lords day. Psalm 118:24 “This is the day which the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it” this is the day when God removes our sin in a single day, and reveals himself to his people the 8th day.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You should get your own beliefs straight before you fix mine. If you would like me to show you where Catholics make this claim; I would be willing, but it may take a little time as I would have to look it up again in my notes which I don’t have with me right now.

I was not contesting your faith nor trying to correct your faith. I was simply exposing another one of your deceptions when you made a false statement about what my Roman Catholic faith teaches about the Sabbath. If you read the catechism it reveals word for word about honoring the sabbath. I hope we are clear here, and you stop believing and telling this lie that the Catholic church “Changed the Sabbath”. I mean no bad intention here, only clarification.

I am willing to discuss more about the Sabbath of what I have not revealed yet, and it is a fascinating topic, how Jesus fulfilled every Letter of the Law and what makes Jesus Lord of the sabbath.

I am willing to read what you have about Catholics making the claim about changing the sabbath. Please look up your notes and lets see them. I hope they are Catholics, such as the catechism, the bible, A Catholic saint, Pope, bishop, or apostle, another words those with authority. If not any will do, I will be happy to etertain you.

I will conclude with this, the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Jesus took on humanity for man (to save man), God did not create man for Jesus.

To honor the sabbath is to save life not kill life, Jesus saved humanity in his death on the Jewish Sabbath day of rest, Raised from the dead the next day of the creation week, after the 7th day sabbath in the 8th day, Where God reveals himself (lev.9), which is the first day of creation, and celebrates this victory “Passover” from death into eternal life with his body on earth the Catholic church, who obeys the Lord of the Sabbath, to eat the body, blood of the (victim) Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, so as to enter into the eternal rest (fulfilled sabbath) with God himself, for we Catholics are partakers of his divinity in baptism and when we consume his body, blood, soul and divinity in the blessed sacrament “Eucharist” That the Lord of the sabbath, Jesus himself commands to eat his body and drink his blood so that we may have eternal life. What more sabbath of a rest can a christian ask God for? than to rest eternally with God himself where God is all and in all through his son Jesus Christ when he lives in us through the Eucharist body, blood, soul and divinity.

Peace be with you, hope to hear from you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Waiting for you Protestant101? one post up for you. Hope to hear from you. I am still praying for you Protestant101, you are going to make a good apologist, Jesus calls you back home to his body. We all take that journey back home when we truly love God, and will do whatever it takes to be with him, once you have tasted that the lord is good. It always begins with humility of heart. This is the door to allow the holy spirit to reveal the holy things of God., not the mind or knowledge of what is seen. For we walk by faith , not by sight.

Peace be with you Protestant101, and may God keep you in his mercy and love.

 

[Protestant101]

Your welcome Patrick Murebil, Protestant 101 will not engage me, so I just offer my 2 cents, whenever he misquotes the Catholic church. And to offer insights to what the Catholic church has taught me to others, I love sharing Jesus to whom ever will listen. God bless you, and peace be with you.

So here you be with another lie and an exaggeration or two. Where did I “misquote the Catholic Church?” Are you saying this because you don’t want to believe that your Church did change the day of worship - and did so without Bible authority? Are you saying there is no evidence to support my claims here on this point?

 

[Protestant101]

Waiting for you Protestant101? one post up for you. Hope to hear from you. I am still praying for you Protestant101, you are going to make a good apologist, Jesus calls you back home to his body. We all take that journey back home when we truly love God, and will do whatever it takes to be with him, once you have tasted that the lord is good. It always begins with humility of heart. This is the door to allow the holy spirit to reveal the holy things of God., not the mind or knowledge of what is seen. For we walk by faith , not by sight.

Peace be with you Protestant101, and may God keep you in his mercy and love.

I am “home;” and that “home” is not in a Church; it is IN CHRIST. Christ might indeed be in your Church; but He is also in mine. I go where He leads me.

 

[Protestant101]

I was not contesting your faith nor trying to correct your faith. I was simply exposing another one of your deceptions when you made a false statement about what my Roman Catholic faith teaches about the Sabbath. If you read the catechism it reveals word for word about honoring the sabbath. I hope we are clear here, and you stop believing and telling this lie that the Catholic church “Changed the Sabbath”. I mean no bad intention here, only clarification.

Once more; I have tried to say that your church claims to have NOT changed the Sabbath; but only “the day of worship.” Are you denying this? Do you really know your own church’s teachings so little that you don’t see this too? So far, I have only stated what your own church claims.

 

[MarysRoses]

So here you be with another lie and an exaggeration or two. Where did I “misquote the Catholic Church?” Are you saying this because you don’t want to believe that your Church did change the day of worship - and did so without Bible authority? Are you saying there is no evidence to support my claims here on this point?

Once more; I have tried to say that your church claims to have NOT changed the Sabbath; but only “the day of worship.” Are you denying this? Do you really know your own church’s teachings so little that you don’t see this too? So far, I have only stated what your own church claims.

A couple of interesting points:

Nowhere, look up the commandment and actually READ it… NOWHERE in the commandment is there any mention of gathering as a group for worship. Yet, this argument always seems to come down to the matter of worshiping on a particular day.

Adventists I know tend to be pretty active in worship and other church activities on that day. Some will go out to a restaurant for dinner, some won’t. Some will take hikes that day, some won’t. Some will go swimming, some won’t. Some will run to the grocery store for a forgotten item, some won’t. Some are strict about not buying or selling, but no one has a problem with collecting tithes and offerings at their services.

(this is an interesting aside. Adventists claim that one mention of the first day in the NT was not documentation of Christians gathering on that day, but was a directive to collect money on the first day instead of the sabbath so as not to profane it, yet Adventists collect their tithes and offerings on the sabbath at their services… this seems very contradictory to me, if they seriously believed their interpretation why wouldn’t they follow the biblical example? … I’ll have to post on that sometime )

It comes down to this, there is no official list of what is acceptable that day and what is not, it will vary with where one lives. Gathering for a worship service is the single common denominator of the Adventist Sabbath, which isn’t actually what the sabbath commandment was about.

So, HOW one “keeps” the sabbath is culturally dependent. You can go to a restaurant after church if you live on the west coast of the US, but don’t DREAM of doing that if you live in Michigan… (just an example, I know Adventists from those areas…)

I find it interesting that in these two posts, you are distilling the issue down to a day of worship:

**Are you saying this because you don’t want to believe that your Church did change the day of worship - and did so without Bible authority? **

So, according to Adventists, it matters WHEN you keep the sabbath. It must be on Saturday, and not on Sunday. You can’t “change” a day if it doesn’t matter which one it is, to say otherwise would make the entire issue illogical. This is not a minor matter in their theology. It is in their name. It is the centerpiece of their seminars and last day prophecy explanations. They do teach, explicitly, that the sabbath is the “seal” of God’s Law, and that those who reject the sabbath and keep Sunday will be lost. So then, when one “keeps” the sabbath, never mind there is little agreement on how to keep it, matters a great deal to Adventists.

It is apparent though, that WHEN to keep the sabbath is just as culturally dependent as HOW one keeps it. Consider the international dateline.

If God intended we keep a specific day of the week as the sabbath, and it was so important that to worship on the wrong day would cost us our salvation, don’t you think He not only would have been explicit in His direction to do so, (there is NO explicit command for Christians to keep sabbath in the NT), but also have made it easy to identify which day was the sabbath?

Which day is the “seventh-day" or Saturday according to Adventists, is entirely dependent on where one lives and in what society. This is easily demonstrated by looking at the international date line. The date line is an entirely man made artifact, arbitrary and of entirely human invention.

Why does this matter? When Adventists are rushing around on Samoa on Friday evening, finishing their work for the week and preparing to begin their sabbath, at the very same time, watching the same setting sun, Adventists on Fiji, Tonga and New Zealand are watching Saturday evening pass away, and with it their sabbath. Whether its Friday or Saturday, depends on where you live in relation to the dateline. The sun sets in Tonga only a few minutes after Samoa, but because of the dateline, its an entirely different day.

worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/dateline.htm

(cont.)

 

[MarysRoses]

Continued from previous post…

Adventists on Hawaii and Kiribati (another South Pacific Island) have an even stranger problem. Kiribati, by an act of their government, moved the dateline so that all the islands in their country would be on the same side, and have the same dates.

Kiribati is south of Hawaii, would be in the same time zone, except for the date. So, on Saturday, while Adventists are going to church in Hawaii, Christians in Kiribati are going to Church at the very same time, on SUNDAY! Adventists in Kiribati would be going around doing their secular work and recreation on Sunday, while its Sabbath in Hawaii.

Who’s keeping the ‘real’ sabbath? How can we know?

Where does the biblical sabbath begin in relation to the dateline?

Does it seem reasonable that Kiribati can ‘change’ the sabbath by moving the dateline by a simple act of parliament without any protest (that I know of) from Adventists?

I’ve asked these questions of Adventists, the best answers I’ve gotten are 'we keep sabbath where we are" , " You do the best you can in figuring out which day is right".

Neither answer addresses the fact they allow a secular, man made abstraction to dictate which day they will observe as sabbath.

Adventists in the far north have difficulties in determining when sunset is and when sabbath begins. As ‘sunset’ can occur so early in the winter as to interfere with school and work, one local northern SDA conference has seriously discussed returning to an earlier decision to observe ‘sunset’ at 6 p.m. year round. Early Adventists did similar until switching to actual sunset several years afterward.

So…

Does sabbath begin at sundown, a specific time of day, or later in the evening? One Jewish commentary identifies the time as when three stars are visible. That would be later than the ‘sunset’ Adventists typically use. Should that even be a factor, should sabbath be when Jerusalem experiences it, no matter where you are?

Adventists accept the day as beginning at the international date line. Adventists in Australia and China observe sabbath even before the middle east does.

The biblical commandment says ‘seventh day’. This term is not a proper noun,and it is not the name of a day. Its a designation for any day that follows a group of six. The grammar is the same as describing the ‘seventh apple’ or the ‘seventh house on the right’

‘seventh’ is determined by where someone would start counting, not an inherent quality of the item described.

There is nothing wrong if a person wants to observe a sabbath on Saturday, that is a personal decision. Where I disagree with Adventists is their insistence that other Christians MUST keep sabbath and make it an issue on which their salvation will be determined, if not now then in the future at some time.

Yes, this IS a matter of salvation to Adventists, regardless of what they often tell new members:

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

St. Paul clearly said differently: ( Colossians 2:16-17)

16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17
These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

and in Romans 14:

4
Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5
(For) one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind. 2
6
Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.

As Christians, we are free of the old law and its observances. Our sabbath rest is in Christ, not in a day of the week. Sunday is not the sabbath on another day, as Adventists claim.
(Hebrews Chapter 4)

9
Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God.
10
And whoever enters into God’s rest, rests from his own works as God did from his.
11
Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience.
12
Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart.

Remember that the ‘Word’ of God is Jesus, not a book 

and from the Catechism:
usccb.org/catechism/text/…2chpt1art3.htm

“2175
Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107”

As Catholic Christians, we gather to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, as the FIRST day, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus, and as the EIGHTH day, as it surpasses the old sabbath which was a memorial of the old creation, and becomes the memorial of the NEW Creation in Christ.

usccb.org/catechism/text/…2chpt1art3.htm

"2174

Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week.“104 Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)—Sunday”

MarysRoses 

 

[MarysRoses]

Are you saying this because you don’t want to believe that your Church did change the day of worship - and did so without Bible authority? Are you saying there is no evidence to support my claims here on this point?

No one has denied a change in the day of worship. Catholics believe the Church has existed continuously since the Apostles, and that YES! they and those they appointed to continue in their place were specifically given the authority to change a great many things! We are not Jews. We do not keep the Jewish feasts. We do not circumcise our children. We do not sacrifice animals at a temple. We do not do a great many things that Jesus and the Apostles, as Jews, did before the establishment of the Church. Did the apostles continue to offer sacrifices at the temple before it was destroyed? Why would they, Jesus is our much better sacrifice. Those were shadows. Christ is the fulfillment. We do not circumcise, we baptize our children into Christ. In Acts, the question was brought to the apostles as far as what gentile Christians should be required to follow in regards to Jewish Law. The Sabbath is not mentioned.

 

[MarysRoses]

Are you saying this because you don’t want to believe that your Church did change the day of worship - and did so without Bible authority? Are you saying there is no evidence to support my claims here on this point?

NO the Catholic Church did not “Change” a commandment or “Change” the sabbath as an improper rebellion against God’s law as Adventists claim.

but YES! and thankfully YES! The Church through her ministry and lawful authority, which began with the apostles, has removed from us the burden of the old laws, including the sabbath. This is documented in Acts 15:19-21.

Also through her ministry and lawful authority, the Church has established Sunday and other feasts which provide for us opportunities for rest and worship and for our spiritual well being. There is flexibility. No one has to worry about a dateline change or what day is Sunday on the international space station. If there is a question, the local bishop can clarify. This has happened in the South Pacific. Adventists then often worship on the day BEFORE the Catholics. There is something amusing in that, they are recognizing the bishop’s authority while claiming he does not have it!

The bible says not to judge one another on a day. Adventists are welcome to worship on Saturday if they choose, but they will miss out on the beautiful symbolism and meaning of Sunday. Not only is it the day of resurrection, but in the Old Testament, the offering of the first fruits was offered on the 8th day. The New Testament refers to Jesus as the “first fruit” of the resurrection. Sunday is not only the first, but the 8th day. The 8th day cannot be found on the calendar, it is a mystical number, outside of ordinary time, as is Christ his kingdom. It is not only a memorial of the resurrection but also of the NEW creation. The seventh day referenced the first creation. How fitting the Christian day of worship references the NEW creation as we are new creatures in Christ. I could go on and on.

MarysRoses

 

[Kristopher]

I haven’t bothered reading all the posts, but here’s my two cents–probably already covered by some, though, I trust it will be upsetting just the same, as it has been in the past; when I’ve expressed my views about it.

Jews went by a lunar calendar. Seventh Day Adventists, in light of the fact, that most of them use a calendar established by a Catholic, Pope Gregory, I believe, which established Saturday as day six, of a seven day week, which is more based on the solar calendar, than anything else–this means: they don’t celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday, except on a few occasions, when the lunar calendar coincides with the Gregorian, or vice versa.

Within the Lunar calendar, there are either twenty-nine days between one new moon and the next, or thirty. Between a new moon, first quarter, full moon, and last quarter–the length of a week can vary from six days, to ten days, and sometimes five; though most of the time, the weeks are seven days and therefore, to celebrate Sabbath on the seventh day, means to celebrate, typically, the day before either a first quarter, full moon, last quarter, or new moon. This can only be done in The Church, as a consequence of it being the only mass celebrated daily. Were a person to use the solar calendar in accord with the constellations, and weeks across each month–it would be nigh impossible at times to ever have a seventh day, as the length of the months vary anywhere between six days, to forty-eight, or forty-nine days, which means: some months have to have ten day weeks, some five, and some six, and some can have no weeks, only a month of six days; actually, there is only one month like this. The bottom line in anycase is the following: the sabbath is celebrated only in The Church, because it alone to my understanding has the only validly consecrated Eucharist. Additionally, a day among the Jews, and in accord with Genesis is not what we typically celebrate, but a day is the period of time from dusk, to dawn, and night is from dawn, to dusk. It would be pleasant in my estimation, to restore our Church calendar to the lunar calendar, and our nights and days along such lines, as God ordained since time immemorial; I do my best, with many faults, to do this. Hope I didn’t wear you out with all, that I wrote, but I find it interesting.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Once more; I have tried to say that your church claims to have NOT changed the Sabbath; but only “the day of worship.”

**Ok, we are finally getting somewhere; You might state this newly found revelation to your SDA leadership, and I quote you “I have tried to say that your church claims to have NOT changed the Sabbath” Here I agree with you brother 100%. What a revelation here

Where we differ here, is when you apply the word “Change” to the “day of worship”. The cathechism never uses the word “Change” We can agree if you agree with me that the catechism uses the word “replace” (not change) “Its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath” One because the first Christians were excommunicated from the temple, and secondly the temple was forever destroyed in 70 a.d. A side note for you here, when a Jewish Christian was removed from the temple it was considered; (to be killed (symbolic gesture) dead).

I believe we can draw a closure here if the word “change” be removed from your apologetics against the Catholic church, because it gives the wrong impression, from the word “Replace” according to the cathechism of the Catholic church. If you can draw the understanding between the meanings, I think we have made progress here.

It is not my goal to defame anyone here by compouding the negative of a misunderstanding, or misquoted word. What is exciting and motivating is that by your own words, we have progressed into an understanding, from the word “Change”.

So can we agree now that The Catholic church did not change the sabbath, but Its “ceremonial observances replaces that of the sabbath”? these are renewed in the new covenant of God through his Son Jesus Christ, where he is our High priest, conducting the works of God through his (earthly priests ) Who are consecrated in the body of Jesus Christ in the one holy apostolic Catholic church. Observing the commandments of God on the 8th day, Sunday resurrection from death into new life, in his body, blood sacrifice being offered for the remission of sins, where life is saved not perished, In the temple of his body Jesus, where we rest in God, when we partake of his body, blood, soul and divinity, when God is all and in all.

Peace be with you**

 

[Protestant101]

Continued from previous post…

Adventists on Hawaii and Kiribati (another South Pacific Island) have an even stranger problem.

I’ve asked these questions of Adventists,

As Christians, we are free of the old law and its observances. Our sabbath rest is in Christ, not in a day of the week. Sunday is not the sabbath on another day, as Adventists claim.

LOL; maybe the Adventists you “asked” could spot your parroting of all the Dale Ratzlaff cult mentality as manifested in your above posts. (that was quite a speech!!) And isn’t that odd…a Catholic running to Evangelical apologetics sites to get “answers” and “truth” about Adventists?

I personally know Adventists in/from Kiribati, and they don’t seem to have any of the “problems” that you concoct about the “Sabbath of the Lord thy God.” What you are repeating is just rationalization, a far cry from sound exegesis of the key Bible passages which would easily refute your assertions. If the seventh-day Sabbath is as confusing to identify as you say; then it follows that Sunday would also be just as confusing to peg down!!

The Bible never once calls it “old law” or “Sabbath of the Jews.” Now back to the subject and question of the OP. Although you have nicely detracted from my question about how your church did indeed change the Sabbath “obligation” to Sunday; I know there are readers who are interested in an authoritative Catholic answer to this question. You are trying to deny that your church “changed” anything, and to make Adventists look like fools and liars for daring to suggest otherwise; yet many of your own official sources readily and openly admit to changing this “obligation” of the Sabbath, on the seventh-day, to the same “obligation” on the first day.

Now; according to the mantra of your two above posts, how on earth will we ever figure out when Sunday is; so that we may properly participate in this “holy obligation” as mandated by the Roman Catholic Sunday Obligation?

An even more pointed question presents at this point and that is that Catholics say that “the Sabbath has not been changed” by this change in the day of “obligation.” But that is only true for Seventh-day Adventists, not Catholics, and most other “Protestants;” who bow down to Catholic Church “authority” on this issue.

 

[inJESUS]

Protestant101, if you think you are a Jew, then by all means, do whatever Jews do on the sabbath and leave us gentiles, because the sabbath was not a sign to gentiles and was not observed before Moses. If you can prove otherwise, then please provide it.

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101;3859550:

Once more; I have tried to say that your church claims to have NOT changed the Sabbath; but only “the day of worship.”

**Ok, we are finally getting somewhere; You might state this newly found revelation to your SDA leadership, and I quote you “I have tried to say that your church claims to have NOT changed the Sabbath” Here I agree with you brother 100%. What a revelation here **

**Where we differ here, is when you apply the word “Change” to the “day of worship”. The cathechism never uses the word “Change” We can agree if you agree with me that the catechism uses the word “replace” (not change) “Its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath” **

Well; I don’t know about us “getting somewhere;” for I have always held this understanding. There are many sources of Catholic writings (official ones) which would state clearly that I am correct in saying how the Roman Catholic Church has changed the “obligation” to Sunday, from Saturday; and the CCC certainly does not refute that idea, even if you could prove what you are saying. How you can say this “does not change the Sabbath” is beyond me, for it certainly does for Catholics. It’s kind of like you always say how “trinity” is not explicitly in the Bible; yet it is there.

If something is not explicitly in the CCC; it can still be there.

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101, if you think you are a Jew, then by all means, do whatever Jews do on the sabbath and leave us gentiles, because the sabbath was not a sign to gentiles and was not observed before Moses. If you can prove otherwise, then please provide it.

You are really funny! Jesus was a Jew! I want to be one too!

But, if you insist:

Did Gentiles Keep The Sabbath?

Christ’s custom was to enter the synagogue “on the sabbath day” (Luke 4:16). The Bible also tells us that He is “Lord of the sabbath” (Mark 2:28) and that He never changes (Mal. 3:6; Heb. 13:8).

But what other New Testament evidence is there of Sabbath observance? Are there other passages revealing what day Paul kept—and what day he used to teach the Gentiles that God was converting at that time? Let’s examine a series of verses.

Paul and Barnabas Teach on the Sabbath

ACTS 13:14-15, 42-44 contains an account of Paul and Barnabas teaching Jews on the Sabbath: “But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, You men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on” (vs. 14-15).

The account picks up in verse 42: “And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.” Why would he not tell them to just show up the next day—Sunday—instead of requiring them to wait an entire week, until the next Sabbath, for further instruction?

The account says nothing of Paul telling the Gentiles that they no longer had an obligation to keep the Sabbath—that it had been done away. While one might suppose that the Jews still carried this obligation, why did Paul not at least explain to the Gentiles, in a message about the “grace of God,” that the Law had been nailed to the cross? He could have easily explained that the Sabbath was no longer binding in the New Testament era.

Notice verse 43: “Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of god.”

But more time passed. People wanted to hear more of the “word of God.” Paul required everyone to wait another week—a second time. Another lost opportunity to point the Gentiles to Sunday. Now read: “And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God” (vs. 44). “Continuing in the grace of God” meant learning to observe the Sabbath!

Gentiles Also Assemble on Sabbath

The next passage, ACTS 15:1-2, 14-21, yields important understanding. Examine it closely. Certain Jews had come to Antioch seeking to teach newly converted Gentiles that they must keep the law of Moses and be circumcised to be saved. It states “no small dissension” arose between Paul and Barnabas and these teachers. A conference of ministers was necessary to resolve the question of what was binding on Gentiles. Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to confer with the apostles and elders.

James announced the final decision: “Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood” (vs. 19-20).

Let’s examine James’ statement. Some assert that James did not tell them that the Ten Commandments were binding on Gentiles. Of course, he did not say this! The Commandments were not in question. Rather, circumcision and obedience to the law of Moses were the issues in dispute.

Think for a moment. Would any suggest that, because James did not mention the Ten Commandments, he was tacitly approving cursing, killing, adultery, stealing, lying, etc.? Ridiculous!

How far will some Catholics and Protestants go to get away from the Fourth Commandment!!

 

[inJESUS]

You are really funny! Jesus was a Jew! I want to be one too!

so be a Jew. Am a follower of Christ, not Moses…am follower of the fulfillment, not the shadows to come… Before Moses, none of the prophets observed the sabbath, and God was pleased with them…oberving the sabbath started with Moses as a sign between God and the people He brought out of Egypt. Before Moses, God did not ask anyone to observe it and since am no follower of Moses being a non-Jew, i will not follow Moses in order to follow Jesus because Jesus did save me as a gentile, and i will not tell Him : no you should not die for me until i follow Moses.

twisting the NT and giving passages targetting JEWS will not help you. Provide evidence that the sabbath was given to non-Jews BEFORE Moses and then we shall have something to talk about.

 

[Metamorphoo]

As a person who has developed a tremendous appreciation for the Jewish roots of Christianity over the past seven years, I can appreciate the struggle that some have with the idea of abolishing the Sabbath (Saturday) worship frequently mentioned in the Bible and replacing it with the Lord’s Day (Sunday) worship.

Not too long ago, however, I learned that ancient rabbinical literature spoke of an “eighth day of creation,” which would be inaugurated with the advent of the Messiah. :newidea: Days one through seven refer to the creation account mentioned in Genesis–and the Sabbath was instituted as a memorial to the 7th day, when God rested from His creative work (ref Ex. 20:11). Day 8, then, refers to the New Genesis–to the end of time, when God creates “a new heaven and new earth.” Jewish and Christian Bible scholars agree that the number 8 represents this spiritual truth.

As some previous posts have pointed out, Sunday–the day of Christ’s resurrection–falls on the eighth day. Over and over again in the pages of the NT, we are told that Christians are “new creatures”–we are new men. We have been spiritually reborn. Obviously, we still live in the physical, temporal reality of this world. And yet, somehow, we do not …

I think much of the struggle over the Saturday/Sunday worship issue–as well as the debates that Jews and some Christians have over the observance of Mosaic festivals and other laws–are due to the fact that Christ has TWO comings, not ONE. Some think that these regulations are to remain in effect until the reign of the Messiah is fully manifested and the new heavens and earth are created (i.e., at His Second Coming). Most Christians understand the NT to say that these things passed away during Christ’s first advent.

I don’t know if this helps anyone, but it has helped me to have peace on this subject.