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Nicea325
Guest
Mary worshipers? As oppose to what? A church with a bunch misinformed people?
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
What’s interesting to me is that everyone seems to be reflecting the same thing. They are saying things that reflect people, not the actual church. Saying #2) sort of tells me that this problem existed long before the scandals busted wide open. Martin Luther also said much about other types of sex scandals during his time. History says the same thing. So, this is not predominantly a Catholic issue, it’s a society issue. I say this because all societies, including to newly broken off ecclesial communities have the same issues, only because they’re new the spot light isn’t constantly on them. This by no means excuses the holy men responsible for falling to this level, but it does clarify that we can NOT place our faith on Man, the faith is in Christ and the Teachings he passed down through the Church. Sometimes believing the faith requires us to do what many in the Church do not want us to do, stand against it visibly as well. History shows this to be effective and has been required to root out certain heresies in the early Church. Pulling a Jack Bauer is not the solution as we’ve seen in, say, the inquisition, which by the way are in part quite true. But it was not isolated with Catholics, it was a cultural issue mostly.
I too felt illegitimate after my father procured a declaration of nullity with mom. It hurt and should be a reason people stop trying to “do their own thing.” Sometimes, we just have to live with our mistakes.
We’re obeying the teaching, not the individual clergy. The teaching comes from Christ. If we do not want to obey, that’s our prerogative…free will. Now, back to my rat killing.
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Pepband_Mom
Guest
thought #1
Priests need to marry so they won’t go abuse kids.
Last time I looked a man walks to the altar to marry a WOMAN not a pre-teen boy!
thought #2
The Pope is the Anti- Christ
Funny, Prots/ Sects seem to spout about every Pope that comes alongis the ANTI-CHRIST
Last time I checked on re: ANTICHRIST related scripture, Bible says it is only 1 PERSON, NOT EVERY SINGLE POPE THAT COMES ALONG:banghead:
thought #3
NO WAY for Holy Mother Church to tell you, yeah, go ahead & do _______ sinful
action. It’s NOT in her nature & that’s comforting! :angel1:
PS thanks Pablope!!!
Priests need to marry so they won’t go abuse kids.
Last time I looked a man walks to the altar to marry a WOMAN not a pre-teen boy!
thought #2
The Pope is the Anti- Christ
Funny, Prots/ Sects seem to spout about every Pope that comes alongis the ANTI-CHRIST
Last time I checked on re: ANTICHRIST related scripture, Bible says it is only 1 PERSON, NOT EVERY SINGLE POPE THAT COMES ALONG:banghead:
thought #3
NO WAY for Holy Mother Church to tell you, yeah, go ahead & do _______ sinful
action. It’s NOT in her nature & that’s comforting! :angel1:
PS thanks Pablope!!!
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StevenFrancis
Guest
This may sound deeply strange, but the profound hatred displayed by the world for the Catholic Church, and the many rantings and ravings of human secularists, pagans, atheists, and others, (including, oddly, some other Christian groups), has more deeply convinced me, and continues to convince every day that this must truly, and absolutely be the one Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself on earth. Jesus said that the world will hate us, but that He was hated even more.I have come across this general sentiment of hostility from a variety of people- I’m sure that every Catholic must have. Now I know that there are as many reasons and angles to this as there are groups of people out there.
Please share charitably. Why?
We are a broken species. Were in not for the grace of Jesus Christ alone, there would be no path to a perfect life everlasting. Jesus spoke of the path to Heaven being the narrow way. It is human nature to want the way to Heaven to conform to us, and to think of it as an entitlement rather than a grace of God. Because the Church adheres to the actual teachings of Jesus Christ, and His Apostles, (by the gift of the Holy Spirit), and is inflexible in her teachings on faith and morals regardless of the changing cultures of man’s world, it is a vexation to people. It maddens them. It inspires people to point out each and every imperfection of the flawed human beings left as the keepers of the repository of Christianity, and hold them up as examples of why the Church can’t be true. Whether it is in spite of, or because of the solid permanence and dogmatic nature of Her teachings on faith and morals while even her trustees and leaders are all over the map. If we wretched Catholics are incapable of destroying the foundations of the Catholic Church, then that infuriatingly informs us that the Church may in fact BE what it claims to be. The bride of our Lord Jesus Christ. This doesn’t square with the bending and twisting of ethics and morals embraced by the modern world, and sets up a quite natural hatred, which confirms for me that it is in fact the truth. It can make for some sad times here on earth, and I’d be lying if I said I was looking forward eagerly (due to my fallen human nature), to the coming tide of persecutions. I pray for God to give all of the us the grace to both realize the truth of His Church, and to withstand the hatred of the world, since He has conquered evil for us, and conquered death, if we will only love Him, and believe on Him, regardless of what the current cultures of the world have to say about it.
The peace of the Lord be with you,
Steven
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Aeolian
Guest
I think largely for 3 reasons. First in think in many cases the clergy of the Church have made some very bad decisions regarding important temporal issues that have really hurt some people and they have publicity acted in ways that are socially unacceptable for clergy. This is compounded by the size of the Church. If a priest in say Dublin Ireland violates a child, the family in Ames Iowa associates (often unfairly) the behavior with the closest Catholic parish. There also seems to be great apathy in the Church at the parish level on nuts-and-bolts issues.I have come across this general sentiment of hostility from a variety of people- I’m sure that every Catholic must have. Now I know that there are as many reasons and angles to this as there are groups of people out there.
Please share charitably. Why?
Second, some religions (most obviously some sects of Protestantism) are built at least partially on hatred for the Catholic Church.
Finally the Catholic Church is the very definition of grace here on Earth. Evil hates (and attacks) grace.
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sallybutler
Guest
As I was reading your response (which I didn’t quote completly), the first part made me think of USA. Many of the same people who condemn the Catholic Church because of the behavior of some people will tell you not to condemn the USA because of the behavior of some people in the past. I would hate it if people based their opinion of the US based on Charles Manson, as would most Americans. Yet many of these same people pick out the behavior of some Catholics and then paint all Catholics with the same brush.
BTW, I hope you got all the rats.
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
I put the last one out just now. Said our prayers.
You reminded me of when I was stationed overseas. The locals judged America based on the individual soldiers behavior. If you know anything about military [no offense intended] they typically come form some of the worse cases America has to offer. The military is a conglomerate of people genuinely desiring to serve as well as some of the low-lifes [criminals] we have to offer. But one thing rings clear to me is that in spite all of our differences, we are proud to serve. But many people that enlist tend to come from less fortunate homes and when they get a little money in an excitingly new place, it’s very easy to over indulge. Soldiers were always trying to buy me beers. I declined and either didn’t go or drank coke. If I wanted a beer, I bought it myself… and rarely at that. I was still discerning the priesthood during that time in my life. I even abandoned my messed up family, not realizing it was so messed up.
So many of us come from messed up situations and yet we really just don’t recognize it.
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GreggAlvarez
Guest
While newcreation does seem enraged by what he/she THINKS Catholicism is (not necessarily what it is), this is not just in the realms of religion as you alluded to.What is sad is the fact that Anti-Catholics like newcreation cannot even see how they offend others by what they say. I had an old world aunt once who would use the ‘n’ word all the time around black folks and could not for the life of her understand why they were upset.
C’mon newcreation, come out and play, we won’t bite.
That is just the culture we live in. For example, in a card game called Magic: The Gathering, a world reknown player got banned for life from the game. He had “joked” about raping one of the game’s creators and the Wizards of the Coast (producers of Magic) took that as a threat to personal violence. This was on a public blog, no less. The guy admitted it was a bad joke, but said it was never a threat. Not only that, people are defending this guy and saying that rape is a “mainstream joke” and a lifetime suspension is unreasonable.
Well, I do not need to elaborate on that. You get the point. People are blinded by conformity and don’t see how it could really offend others.
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GreggAlvarez
Guest
Yeah, I know. I am sorry you had the unfortunate experience of clicking on it. I don’t know if you read the whole thing (which it is really unorganized), but the maker makes the disclaimer that it is “NOT a hate site”.
He even posts in one article admonishing the readers to NOT listen to Catholics when they say they do not worship statues.
He dissed Narnia? I didn’t catch that one, but it is called “fiction” for a reason. I guess he didn’t get that memo.
And to defend even some of our Protestant brothers and sisters, some of the stuff they say about Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopelians, etc… is just plain false. I am no expert on their beliefs and I obviously disagree with them, but I know that some of that stuff is NOT what they believe.
But what amazes me the most about the site (besides the love of hatred, as has been discussed here), is that many Christian sites advertise it as a legitimate Christian site. I know Protestants who dislike the site and its maker, who is a man at the infamous Westboro Baptist Church. I want to attend a service there just out of curiosity. Can I do that as a Catholic?
I even showed it to an atheist friend of mine. We argue quite a bit, but only because we respect each other. And I agreed that the atheist remarks in that site are laughable. Even the reasons he gave why God exists are ridiculous, and I am on his side!
Anyway, God bless!
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tbcrawford
Guest
God bless you!
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Deborah123
Guest
Hi,
Usually, hatred is born of misunderstanding or ignorance.
If it’s any comfort, I have never come across any Catholic Church haters here in the North of England. Is it a big problem in other places? I am interested to know.
The stampede of parents trying to get their children into Catholic schools is quite an annual sport round here, and understandable, they are excellent schools!
D
Usually, hatred is born of misunderstanding or ignorance.
If it’s any comfort, I have never come across any Catholic Church haters here in the North of England. Is it a big problem in other places? I am interested to know.
The stampede of parents trying to get their children into Catholic schools is quite an annual sport round here, and understandable, they are excellent schools!
D
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JustaServant
Guest
He does seem rather angry. And I guess his is just a hit and run post since he never came back.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
There are many pockets of the USA which are deeply anti-Catholic. Particularly some of the large metros on both of the coasts, and a few isolated areas in the deep South. In my career, we lived in every region of the country. Most of that time, I was not Catholic, so I wasn’t particularly attuned to the views on the Church one way or the other. When I started becoming interested in Catholicism I was living in the heartland of the country, just about smack dab in the middle, (Eastern Kansas), and Catholics easily made up the majority of the faithful in the area I lived, so of course there wasn’t much slamming of Catholics around there. I came to the Church after I left Kansas and settled in Nevada. Here the predominant faith group, far and away, is the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, and the Catholics seem to get along just fine here. The Mormons are quite friendly to us. I’m not sure if they speak against us in their churches or not, but in our Catholic parishes we don’t say anything of a negative nature about them, and I think we coexist quite well. I think the biggest problems are large cities, and particularly certain major cities on the coasts. Whenever I read the horror stories about desecration of hosts, mocking of the Pope, hate speech, discrimination, protests, etc. It seems to always be from some of these cities because of the popularity of immorality, (personal opinion alert), and the fact that the teachings of the Church are incompatible with immorality. Wherever immorality enjoys the most success on an open, recreational basis, and is the most celebrated, there is where you find the largest, most vocal and visible hatred of the Church.Hi,
Usually, hatred is born of misunderstanding or ignorance.
If it’s any comfort, I have never come across any Catholic Church haters here in the North of England. Is it a big problem in other places? I am interested to know.
The stampede of parents trying to get their children into Catholic schools is quite an annual sport round here, and understandable, they are excellent schools!
D
These are observations of one American, not living in a hatred pocket, so far as I can tell. Others mileage may vary in both opinion, and statistics. We are a geographically enormous country of course, and even in the most wicked cities, we don’t have the kinds of hatred found in some other nations around the world. Like England, we are fortunate that the pockets of hatred are relatively isolated, and are non-violent in nature, (so far).
Blessings,
Steven
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newcreation2009
Guest
GreggAlvarez: While newcreation does seem enraged by what he/she THINKS Catholicism is (not necessarily what it is), this is not just in the realms of religion as you alluded to.
To all,
I am hardly enraged and I apologize for me coming across that way. I was wrong, on this site at least, for pointing out that I WAS Catholic for almost 30 years, BUT that I am saved because of my faith in Christ alone by the grace of God. I think that the main problem is really in the question itself, it’s like asking a man who you don’t know if he still beats his wife?
The question should be re-worded as such:
‘‘Why do/does _________(s) hate the Catholic church?’’
Christians who believe that the Bible is the inerrant, infallable word of God do have a real problem with the Catholic church that believes that the pope is inerrant.
Also, as I stated prior, the 2nd Commandment in Exodus 20 & Deuteronomy 5 is NOT FOUND in “The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism” and that is removing/changing the word of God. If that is considered ‘‘hatred’’, then I simply don’t know the meaning of the word, and I claim ignorance.
How can anyone read 2 Timothy 3:16 - 18 and accept ANY changes to God’s word?
Also, how can anyone read Mark 6:1-3 and 1 Corinthians 9: 3 - 6 and NOT see that Jesus had brothers and sister? Mary, according to the inerrant, infallable WORD OF GOD had other children after Jesus. If taking the Word of God literally is considered ‘‘hatred’’, then, again, I claim ignorance.
For God’s glory,
Tim
To all,
I am hardly enraged and I apologize for me coming across that way. I was wrong, on this site at least, for pointing out that I WAS Catholic for almost 30 years, BUT that I am saved because of my faith in Christ alone by the grace of God. I think that the main problem is really in the question itself, it’s like asking a man who you don’t know if he still beats his wife?
The question should be re-worded as such:
‘‘Why do/does _________(s) hate the Catholic church?’’
Christians who believe that the Bible is the inerrant, infallable word of God do have a real problem with the Catholic church that believes that the pope is inerrant.
Also, as I stated prior, the 2nd Commandment in Exodus 20 & Deuteronomy 5 is NOT FOUND in “The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism” and that is removing/changing the word of God. If that is considered ‘‘hatred’’, then I simply don’t know the meaning of the word, and I claim ignorance.
How can anyone read 2 Timothy 3:16 - 18 and accept ANY changes to God’s word?
Also, how can anyone read Mark 6:1-3 and 1 Corinthians 9: 3 - 6 and NOT see that Jesus had brothers and sister? Mary, according to the inerrant, infallable WORD OF GOD had other children after Jesus. If taking the Word of God literally is considered ‘‘hatred’’, then, again, I claim ignorance.
For God’s glory,
Tim
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Nicea325
Guest
And how can anyone read 1 Cor. 9:3-6 and NOT see Jesus did not speak English and lived in an Eastern culture with a different language and cultural background? Yes I would call it ignorance on your part-no offense.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
As Catholics we believe in Jesus alone and no other God.
As Catholics we know that Jesus found a Church and to love Him alone is to love His Church. All the Saints and martyrs of the Faith. And His beloved Mother. We love God the Father, the Son and the HS and His Holy Church.
Humm… I guess we do love Him a lot.
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CMatt25
Guest
I have never been to England but neither have I come across it in the 2 regions of the US where I have lived. Sometimes I think it is not as prevalent as some Catholics believe. Hate is a pretty strong word. Disagreement does not equate to contempt or hate.Hi,
Usually, hatred is born of misunderstanding or ignorance.
If it’s any comfort, I have never come across any Catholic Church haters here in the North of England. Is it a big problem in other places? I am interested to know.
The stampede of parents trying to get their children into Catholic schools is quite an annual sport round here, and understandable, they are excellent schools!
D
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wisdomseeker
Guest
If I go the neigbour and speak ill and falsedhook about you, i bet you would say it is hate in my part.
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Deborah123
Guest
I have been mulling this over a bit more.
There is a rather revolting tradition in Lewes, England every year on our fireworks night/bonfire night, when an effigy of Pope Paul V is burnt. (Bonfire night celebrates the failure of the Gun Powder Plot which I haven’t got time to explain right now!)
Participants say it’s not anti Catholic but more pro Protestant.
I still find it very offensive.
On the plus side, the law is about to be changed here regarding the spouse of the monarch. Future Kings and Queens will be allowed to have a Catholic spouse (not allowed at present). So that’s progress!
Having been Catholic most of my life I still can honestly say I never had any personal experience of hatred so England is generally a pleasant place to be Catholic. However since leaving the church and following a different faith have experienced real hatred (not from Catholics I hasten to add), but that’s a whole different thread!
There is a rather revolting tradition in Lewes, England every year on our fireworks night/bonfire night, when an effigy of Pope Paul V is burnt. (Bonfire night celebrates the failure of the Gun Powder Plot which I haven’t got time to explain right now!)
Participants say it’s not anti Catholic but more pro Protestant.
I still find it very offensive.
On the plus side, the law is about to be changed here regarding the spouse of the monarch. Future Kings and Queens will be allowed to have a Catholic spouse (not allowed at present). So that’s progress!
Having been Catholic most of my life I still can honestly say I never had any personal experience of hatred so England is generally a pleasant place to be Catholic. However since leaving the church and following a different faith have experienced real hatred (not from Catholics I hasten to add), but that’s a whole different thread!
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benedictus2
Guest
Yeah right. That is about as anti-Catholic one can get.
I suppose we could burn efigies of of Luther, King Henry and Calvin then say we are just being pro-Catholic.
Aaah the lies they tell themselves.
This is what I find perplexing, this predilection to tell lies among dectractors of the Catholic Church.
I wonder if they think that if they tell it often enough it will become true.
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