Why is the Pope Endorsing Same Sex Unions in Film

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pnewton said:
What was said was a short quote.
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Yes but take this short off-the-cuff quote and add it with all the other short off-the-cuff quotes and you’ll have a pretty good picture painted.

It is silly to suggest that the Pope doesn’t mean what he is saying when he continues to say it over and over again at some point we must just take him at his word.
 
Bithynian said:
I think we’re tempted to always perceive that the grass in greener elsewhere
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That is exactly why I have stood and remained where I am…

…however even our Holy Catholic Church acknowledges fully the truth of Orthodoxy…

… I am not saying that I will ever go anywhere else and if I did go somewhere else it would only be because I became 1000% convinced that they were the true faith, but what I am saying is if I had to go somewhere else I’m pretty sure I know where that would be.
 
MikeInVA said:
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Jbrady:
Probably in vain. Most had one foot and four and a half toes out the door already. And demographic replacement will take care of the rest.
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It reminds of the Barnum and Bailey Circus. For years attendance was dropping, and research indicated that people who thought the animal acts were cruel had stopped going. So, the circus cut out the animal acts - and the rest of the audience stopped going - no one came back to the circus. Now the Barnum and Bailey Circus is gone.
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LOL - I think that happened during the 1970s. The Church pandered to the cafeteria Catholics who already had one foot out the door then. Long gone now.
 
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Timeline of same-sex marriage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Let’s see - il Papa is twenty years behind the secular times. What will the pope be endorsing in twenty years? Children under twelve getting euthanasia? The state of New York making abortion a constitutional right? Polyamorous marriage?
 
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None of those are doctrinal teachings. They are either disciplines (which can change) or matters of scientific fact.
 
No. Not a lot was covered in that short statement.
CathBoy1 said:
It is silly to suggest that the Pope doesn’t mean what he is saying
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I am not saying he doesn’t mean what he is saying, only that there was not much said. I do not add it to anything, but then, I am not a movie director.
 
Mishakel said:
I put not my faith in Science nor the wisdom of mankind. Science didn’t create the universe nor did it establish its laws. You put your faith in man over God and that is your error.
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  1. God created all.
  2. Humans are part of creations.
  3. Ergo, God created humans.
  4. God is responsible for humanity, all of its unique abilities and gifts.
  5. Science is the human ability to study rationally the patterns of and reasons for all that surrounds us.
  6. Ergo, God is responsible for human’s ability to engage in science.
  7. Scientific discovery provides useful knowledge and is an expression of human’s free will.
  8. Ergo, Scientific discovery is Godly.
  9. Ergo, Science provides a way to describe creation.
  10. Science is a human endeavor.
  11. Ergo, science is a way God has of communicating his creation and revelation to us.
Vaccines, DNA discoveries, modern medicine, knowledge of the structure of the universe, all of these are unquestionably good, and unquestionably products of science. When we discover something through science, it is God’s vision we are seeing. We should listen.

Science has studied human psychology and sexual development. God is trying to tell us something.

We should listen.
 
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mozartpc27 said:
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Mishakel:
I put not my faith in Science nor the wisdom of mankind. Science didn’t create the universe nor did it establish its laws. You put your faith in man over God and that is your error.
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  1. God created all.
  2. Humans are part of creations.
  3. Ergo, God created humans.
  4. God is responsible for humanity, all of its unique abilities and gifts.
  5. Science is the human ability to study rationally the patterns of and reasons for all that surrounds us.
  6. Ergo, God is responsible for human’s ability to engage in science.
  7. Scientific discovery provides useful knowledge and is an expression of human’s free will.
  8. Ergo, Scientific discovery is Godly.
  9. Ergo, Science provides a way to describe creation.
  10. Science is a human endeavor.
  11. Ergo, science is a way God has of communicating his creation and revelation to us.
Vaccines, DNA discoveries, modern medicine, knowledge of the structure of the universe, all of these are unquestionably good, and unquestionably products of science. When we discover something through science, it is God’s vision we are seeing. We should listen.

Science has studied human psychology and sexual development. God is trying to tell us something.

We should listen.
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Your number 4 is problematic. God gave humans free will. Then we messed some things up.
 
mozartpc27 said:
Ergo, science is a way God has of communicating his creation and revelation to us.
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Is this the newest Catholic dogma??? I’m sure a lot of people would like to find this in the writings of the church.

I think you’re putting your own assumptions into my comment regarding science. I’m not saying all science is bad or the study of science is bad or some results from science is bad.

It’s very simple. I put my faith in God not mankind or Science. Science does not allow for a God in any official way. Science doesn’t believe God created the universe so you have a major contradiction in your point # 9.

Scripture has many passages about listening to God. I can’t find any scripture where God instructs us to lean on Science for our moral compass or anything else for that matter.
 
If one can say " Personally i’m against gay marriage, but they shouldn’t be barred from being recognized by the law." Why can’t one say, “I am personally pro-life, but women should have the right to choose abortion.”

I’m honestly trying to figure out… I mean, both are moral evils
 
pnewton said:
I am not saying he doesn’t mean what he is saying, only that there was not much said.
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Over the entirety of his Papacy there has been quite a bit said.
pnewton said:
I do not add it to anything, but then, I am not a movie director.
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Nor am I, however one can reasonably judge what one believes through one’s statements, and as I have said there have been many statements made about homosexuality during this Papacy…

…and many excuses given, however none by Pope Francis, he seems to prefer making these scandalizing statements and then saying nothing else about them, no clarification no nothing…

…even after directly being asked for clarification on certain statements…

…therefore we must take his silence as an answer.
 
Trying2overcome said:
If one can say " Personally i’m against gay marriage, but they shouldn’t be barred from being recognized by the law." Why can’t one say, “I am personally pro-life, but women should have the right to choose abortion.”

I’m honestly trying to figure out… I mean, both are moral evils
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Exactly.
And in that case inaction is itself an action.
 
We cannot let our compassion or our wants change our views when it comes to what God wills.

I myself have same sex attraction but mostly straight. I don’t want kids. As a woman I’m living a life of celibacy which includes no “self abuse.”

I will not compromise my faith because of what I wish or someone else. Christians are to be light and salt to the world.

We need to look at the example of the martyrs of the church who chose rather to die than deny Christ.

By the way I’m not a trad believer. I’m charismatic.
 
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So is prostitution. And yet, our two finest theologians in history, Augustine and Aquinas, both tolerated legalizing prostitution seeing it as the lesser of two evils vs. banning it.

I think Pope Francis sees it the same way, namely, that it would be worse for society and unloving not to provide protections for gays (although stopping short of sanctioning such unions at the level of the sacrament of Matrimony).
 
pnewton said:
This is why I do not use movies to get my news.
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You keep harping on the movie, but everyone in this thread is talking about the actual words that he spoke - not some actor, not a paraphrase - the Pope’s own words. Whether he spoke them in an interview for a movie, from the balcony or while baptizing a baby in a parish church, they are his words.
 
Guest1 said:
We cannot let our compassion or our wants change our views when it comes to what God wills.

I myself have same sex attraction but mostly straight. I don’t want kids. As a woman I’m living a life of celibacy which includes no “self abuse.”

I will not compromise my faith because of what I wish or someone else. Christians are to be light and salt to the world.

We need to look at the example of the martyrs of the church who chose rather to die than deny Christ.
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Exactly! We need to conform ourselves as Christians to the Church, to Christ, to His will, not the other way around.

I am a married man and I would be a liar to say that I haven’t been tempted many, many, many times with sexual desires…

…however as a Christian I try (and struggle) to put aside those desires, if I ever fail I know that it is my fault, and I seek forgiveness.

I do not try to change the Church to allow me to give into these temptations and desires, they are wrong, I know they’re wrong, you know they’re wrong and everyone else should too…

… and so to try and change the Church to allow me to do things that are wrong, well that is just not right and that’s exactly what we’re talking about here.
 
MikeInVA said:
You keep harping on the movie, but everyone in this thread is talking about the actual words that he spoke - not some actor, not a paraphrase - the Pope’s own words.
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I disagree. All the pope said was, “What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered, I stood up for that.” Most of the discussion here is about the sexual relationship.
 
TheAdvocate197 said:
So is prostitution. And yet, our two finest theologians in history, Augustine and Aquinas, both tolerated legalizing prostitution seeing it as the lesser of two evils vs. banning it.

I think Pope Francis sees it the same way, namely, that it would be worse for society and unloving not to provide protections for gays (although stopping short of sanctioning such unions at the level of the sacrament of Matrimony).
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Here’s a good discussion of this topic.


And we now know that prostitution is not a “victimless crime”:

www.forbes.com

Why Legalizing Prostitution May Not Work

BY SIMON HEDLIN -- Official figures from Denmark lend support to the notion of a considerable increase in demand following the creation of a legal market.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
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