Why is voting for Biden a mortal sin?

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Little people go to prison for “process crimes” all of the time.

You may be right. The criminal allegations may be just a political hack by the Democrats. Turn the tables a bit though…it may just be that the Republicans won’t enforce the law in the Red States. The Democrats will. We’re just chirping at each other now.

I live in a world of “show me” If you’re going to author (not you personally) earth-shattering conspiracy theories, you have to connect the dots. Trump never connects the dots. He just says stuff.
I would be more concerned about big tech’s manipulation, harvesting of personal data and collusion with China and Russia (fostered by Hillary and Biden’s collusions with those regimes) than I would with Trump’s contacts. I suspect you haven’t looked into those with any degree of seriousness because you don’t get sucked into conspiracy theories, at least none that don’t involve Trump.

 
Trump surrounded himself with Russophiles.
This is an assumption without a shadow of a foundation. Provide a reputable one or give it up.
Trump still holds all of the cards. He’s the commander in chief. He heads the Justice Department the other Federal Agencies. He can render them impotent if he likes. Trump has the largest microphone in the world. Why not broadcast everything he knows and layout all of the evidence? He doesn’t have any evidence. He’s just making “stuff” up.
The ones without evidence are the Democrats. Two years and tens of millions of dollar spent and they couldn’t pin “Russia collusion” on him or on any of the people you erroneously called “Russophiles”. Then they immediately tried to impeach him on a fake charge which failed.
 
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Boomster1:
Trump surrounded himself with Russophiles.
This is an assumption without a shadow of a foundation. Provide a reputable one or give it up.
Trump still holds all of the cards. He’s the commander in chief. He heads the Justice Department the other Federal Agencies. He can render them impotent if he likes. Trump has the largest microphone in the world. Why not broadcast everything he knows and layout all of the evidence? He doesn’t have any evidence. He’s just making “stuff” up.
The ones without evidence are the Democrats. Two years and tens of millions of dollar spent and they couldn’t pin “Russia collusion” on him or on any of the people you erroneously called “Russophiles”. Then they immediately tried to impeach him on a fake charge which failed.
It is not merely that the Democrats are without evidence, it is also that they are without principles. Principles don’t matter to the elites in the Democrat party.

Take for example Bloomberg paying the fines of 32 000 Florida felons so that they can vote, essentially buying 32 000 votes.

Aside from the clear hypocrisy of Democrats who formerly complained about big money in politics being silent on this, by what consistent principle is it a prudential matter – i.e., for the good of society – to have those who have egregiously broken just laws in the past being given a pass to now vote on who will be responsible for making laws?

Yes, Florida law allows convicted felons to legally vote after they have made restitution and paid their debts to society, but Bloomberg paying those debts for them is not the same thing, nor in the spirit of justice behind those laws. Clearly it is to buy votes in a state where the race is very close.

The instances of Democrats doing this kind of thing is legion, demonstrating that power by any means necessary is their goal. Principles be damned.

Why any self-respecting person would vote for these clowns knowing that once they have power no just principles will be honoured is beyond me.
 
once they have power
If the Dems achieve total power in this election, they’ll never let go of it again in this generation and maybe never until some violent revolution throws them out. If Trump is re-elected and if Repubs capture the House and Senate, sufficient reforms might be possible to prevent this country becoming a one-party authoritarian state. But it will be a close thing even then.
 
Just repeating “you have no evidence against Trump” over and over doesn’t make you more right.

The evidence is there. I included just a small sampling of direct quotes from the Mueller report. The evidence and data are overwhelming. Trump is a corrupt businessman. He is an even more corrupt president.

The man surrounded himself with Russian and Ukrainian lobbyists. This is a known fact. The U.S. Senate, U.S. Intel, the House, and the FBI all concluded that Russia interfered with the 2016 election with the intention of aiding Trump. The evidence is there and it is clear. Nobody is making it up.

Trump and his minions went to great lengths to confuse, discredit, and demean the Mueller investigation. I guess he achieved his goal. 40% of Americans believe Trump can do no wrong.

I’d be the first to extoll Trump’s virtues if he were a virtuous man. I have nothing against him personally. I prayed he would be a moral compass for our nation. Unfortunately, he has done great damage to the United States.

Trump and his minions are like the blind guides referenced in the New Testament.

Matthew 15:14
Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
 
Fear-mongering at its best (worst?) There is no forever in politics.

What reforms do you propose are necessary? Trump had four years to sort through all of the alleged evils that exist within our system. Yet he dithered and did nothing. Trump and the Republicans controlled every lever of power in the United States for two years…yet they did nothing with regards to reforming the evils that exist in our great land.

Why should I trust these same yahoos with complete power again? According to you and a myriad of other conservative social media sources, America is falling apart. Newsflash. Trump was in power for four years. Who’s to blame for America’s demise?

Let’s go back to 1968. My IU math tells me that is 52 years. The Republicans controlled the presidency for 32 out of those 52 years. I’d think America would be in much better shape if the Republicans/conservatives possessed the secret sauce.

I just like to know what reforms you believe are necessary for this country to avoid becoming a dystopian dictatorship.

From your perspective, what is wrong with our country that can’t be fixed with elections?
 
You got me there. I guess the Republicans are the only party with principles in the United States. Those Republican elites are the enlightened, compassionate, Godly leaders who sit at God’s right hand.

The difference between us may be that I don’t believe that any of the party elites really care about us “little guys”.

What is wrong with Bloomberg paying the fines of these former felons? A Republican-dominated state legislature and Republican governor recently enacted the legislation to put a roadblock in front of these former felons in order to suppress their vote. These former convicts already paid their debt to society. Out of nowhere, the Republicans slap a poll tax into the mix. That doesn’t sound very enlightened or principled to me. That sounds like the Republicans really only care about winning and holding onto power. See how easy it is to cast aspersions via a broad brush.

It seems to me that the Republicans believe they are entitled to control the levers of power forever. They want to take our country back in time to the 1920’s. They’d like to wipe away Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act. They’d like to eliminate labor unions in this country and return power to the corporate elite.

Unlike you, I don’t think either party has the complete answer to America’s challenges. Nothing is that simple. There is no utopia and unregulated capitalism doesn’t work any better than pure socialism.

We need to start working together to solve our nation’s problems.
 
Fear-mongering at its best (worst?) There is no forever in politics.

What reforms do you propose are necessary? Trump had four years to sort through all of the alleged evils that exist within our system. Yet he dithered and did nothing. Trump and the Republicans controlled every lever of power in the United States for two years…yet they did nothing with regards to reforming the evils that exist in our great land.
When the Democrats want to add two totally Democrat places as states to get four more senators, you know they mean to keep power forever. When they want to replace the native population with immigrants they believe will vote Democratic, you know they mean to keep power forever. When their presidential candidate favors open borders and court packing, you know they intend to keep power forever. When they corrupt organs of government like the IRS, FBI, CIA, DOJ to harass and persecute their political opponents, you know they intend to keep power forever. When they knowingly put massive voting power into the hands of political bosses with mail in balloting, you know they mean to keep power forever.

Reforms? How about getting rid of the top three or four layers of the FBI, DOJ, CIA, IRS? Why not try voter identification? How about closing the borders to illegals instead of resisting it? How about criminalizing “unmasking” by people not having the highest security clearance or who unnecessarily spreads the unmasked person’s name throughout other agencies without good reason? Why not try banning “mail in” balloting? Why not reinstate the filibuster?

Trump dithered? It’s a miracle he got anything done. For nearly three years he was being investigated by 13 angry Democrats with access to the treasury and no scruples whatever. He was then impeached from that point on until early this year. The impeachment lasted into the Covid infection, which didn’t stop the impeachment of course.

But he did plenty. He let the Catholic charities, including the Little Sisters of the Poor off the Obama/Biden HHS abortifacient mandate. He reinstated the Mexico City Policy. He appointed two Supreme Court justices, both prolife. The stock market gained nearly 10,000 points during his administraiton. He removed many regulations including the onerous and stupid WOTUS which involved the army in every farm pond and dry wash in America. He presided over an economy in which black and Hispanic unemployment was the lowest ever in history. He defeated ISIS which had Obama/Biden flummoxed. He started NO wars unlike Obama/Biden/Clinton. He reinvigorated the armed forces after the Obama/Biden decline. He gave NO taxpayer money to iran unlike Obama/Biden/Kerry/Clinton who gave the Mullahs 150 billion dollars with which to fund terror. He signed NO Paris climate giveaway of taxpayer dollars.

And all of that while your guys were harassing him without letup or mercy.

Maybe he won’t win the Nobel peace prize for getting three Muslim nations to recognize Israel and getting a peace treaty between Kosovo and Serbia, but he sure should.
 
I could go on, but I’ll wait for your specifics.
I should have warned @Boomster1 that this was a trap. Specifics are never wanted, nor are they respected. Evidence is denied as “no evidence” as has happened once again. If you believe Trump is who you should vote for, then that is why we hold elections. Others might believe other evidence you dismiss, or see problems that you do not. My opinion of Trump is that I can never support him in any way. I will not repeat four years of specifics for rebuttal though.
 
When the Democrats want to add two totally Democrat places as states to get four more senators, you know they mean to keep power forever. When they want to replace the native population with immigrants they believe will vote Democratic, you know they mean to keep power forever. When their presidential candidate favors open borders and court packing, you know they intend to keep power forever.
-It seems you look to drive to your desired outcome instead of ensuring the process is fair.
Aren’t the Americans in D.C. entitled to the same representation as the rest of the nation? Why not grant the folks in D.C. the same liberty as the rest of us and compete for their vote. That would seem to be the most equitable outcome. Unless your unstated goal is for the Republicans to maintain power through fair means and foul.
When their presidential candidate favors open borders and court packing, you know they intend to keep power forever.
–Court-packing, now that’s funny. Trump has pushed a bunch (not all) of young, idealogues…many of whom (not all) are unqualified for the Federal Bench so the Conservatives can maintain control of the courts for decades. I’m almost certain this was not the founders’ intent. I’m not a fan of open borders either. Unfortunately, our nation encouraged legal and illegal immigration for decades. It’s a tough issue.
When they corrupt organs of government like the IRS, FBI, CIA, DOJ to harass and persecute their political opponents, you know they intend to keep power forever.
-We’ve been over this ad infinitum. There is zero proof that a deep state cabal exists. If one does exist, Trump should have been able to sweep it away with one fist tied behind his back. At the very least and the AG should have been able to identify the bad actors. Conservatives control Foxnews, Talk radio, and much of social media. Get the word out and enlist the help of the American people. I’ll be the first in line to defend the president against an illegal and unconstitutional cabal.
Trump dithered? It’s a miracle he got anything done. For nearly three years he was being investigated by 13 angry Democrats with access to the treasury and no scruples whatever. He was then impeached from that point on until early this year. The impeachment lasted into the Covid infection, which didn’t stop the impeachment of course.
–The Democrats have only controlled the House since January 2019. Trump knew he had no worries about a conviction in the Senate. They were in the bag for him. So you’re saying Trump can’t do more than one thing at a time. I was in Las Vegas in late January for business. It was apparent then that COVID would be a large problem for the U.S. The airports were full of travelers wearing masks. Trump admitted he knew about the COVID threat to the U.S. He lied, obfuscated, and betrayed the American people. 200,000 people are dead because of his gross negligence.
 
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He let the Catholic charities, including the Little Sisters of the Poor off the Obama/Biden HHS abortifacient mandate.
–I agree, Obamacare overreached here. I’m glad this aspect of the ACA was slapped down.
He appointed two Supreme Court justices, both prolife.
-I like the fact both are pro-life. They are both originalists/textualists though. That can be a problem at times. We’ll have to see.
The stock market gained nearly 10,000 points during his administraiton.
–This is extremely misleading. For example, for the first three plus years since Trump’s inauguration the S&P 500 has risen 30% while under Obama it increased 70%.

–The Dow has risen 39% since Trump’s election, while under Obama it increased 35% and 65% from the low point in February 2009.

The stock market did extremely well under both Obama and Trump. Stocks typically hit highs at some point during every president’s tenure.
He removed many regulations including the onerous and stupid WOTUS which involved the army in every farm pond and dry wash in America.
-I’ll concede the Obama overreached with some regulations during his tenure. However, Trump has rolled back important banking, environmental, and consumer regulations.
He presided over an economy in which black and Hispanic unemployment was the lowest ever in history.
–The economy is a misnomer. Trump inherited an excellent economy. It was trending up. Trump merely rode the trend lines up.
He defeated ISIS which had Obama/Biden flummoxed.
–The initial iteration of ISIS was on its way out. Unfortunately, it’s starting to gain some momentum again.
He started NO wars unlike Obama/Biden/Clinton.
–Obama started no wars. He inherited the War on Terror. Libya and the Arab Spring weren’t Obama’s wars. They were internal revolts against inept and dictatorial leaders.
He reinvigorated the armed forces after the Obama/Biden decline.
I have relatives who are career military. Most will tell you, the military was worn down by 15 years of constant warfare. Obama didn’t undermine the military.
He gave NO taxpayer money to iran unlike Obama/Biden/Kerry/Clinton who gave the Mullahs 150 billion dollars with which to fund terror.
-This is a bogus (is there any other kind?) lie. The $150B was not U.S. taxpayer money. It belonged to Iran. The U.S. and its major allies lifted sanctions. The $150B was Iranian money frozen by international nuclear sanctions.
He signed NO Paris climate giveaway of taxpayer dollars.
-This is neither demonstrably good nor bad. The jury is still out. Some think it a positive action, some view as negative. It’s not a slam dunk awesome thing.
And all of that while your guys were harassing him without letup or mercy.
First, they are not my guys. Second, thank God Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Brietbart, and the other Right wingers took it easy on Obama. No harassment there. Additionally, I don’t recall any Republican-led investigations over Obama’s 8 years right. Oh, that’s right. There were more than 8400 days of Republican-led investigations into the Obama administration. Of course, those were all legitimate investigations and not harassment right?
 
The rules of this game are pretty clear to me. This is not really a discussion. It’s a constant move the goal line exercise.

I feel like I am debating Rush Limbaugh’s or Sean Hannity’s talking points. We’re getting nowhere with this back and forth.

I enjoy political discussion but we’re just spinning our wheels here.
 
I didn’t read the whole thread, but could you please explain your reasoning in more details? Specifically, what are, according to you, the proportionate reasons that would justifiy voting for Biden, in spite of the democratic plan to expand abortion rights? What could be more important than save the life of the innocent unborn from this slaughter?
Here’s the reasoning of those like me who think it is not justified to vote for Biden:
  1. The murder of an innocent is the worst evil possible.
  2. If candidate A winning will result in less murders of innocents than candidate B winning, then voting for candidate A is better than voting for candidate B.
  3. If Trump wins, this will result in less murders of innocents than if Biden wins.
  4. Therefore, voting for Trump is better than voting for Biden.
Could you tell which of those premises you disagree with?
 
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HarryStotle:
I could go on, but I’ll wait for your specifics.
I should have warned @Boomster1 that this was a trap. Specifics are never wanted, nor are they respected. Evidence is denied as “no evidence” as has happened once again. If you believe Trump is who you should vote for, then that is why we hold elections. Others might believe other evidence you dismiss, or see problems that you do not. My opinion of Trump is that I can never support him in any way. I will not repeat four years of specifics for rebuttal though.
Why not advise @Boomster1 to actually address the “specifics” that I asked him to address such as those made in Post #314?

In case you missed it, I invited specifics and received not a word of reply. Why not? Likely because it is easier to sidestep to some rhetorical claptrap about setting traps.

He (or you) could show some bona fides by defending the very specific points I made on the “140 contacts” evidence he called “evidence of entanglements.”

He offered not a word in response but went on to insist “the evidence is there” despite not making any attempt to defend what he previously claimed was evidence with any corroboration whatsoever.

Perhaps that is what you meant by a “trap?” An unanswerable point. 😏
 
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Just repeating “you have no evidence against Trump” over and over doesn’t make you more right.

The evidence is there. I included just a small sampling of direct quotes from the Mueller report. The evidence and data are overwhelming. Trump is a corrupt businessman. He is an even more corrupt president.



Trump and his minions went to great lengths to confuse, discredit, and demean the Mueller investigation. I guess he achieved his goal. 40% of Americans believe Trump can do no wrong.

I’d be the first to extoll Trump’s virtues if he were a virtuous man. I have nothing against him personally. I prayed he would be a moral compass for our nation. Unfortunately, he has done great damage to the United States.

Trump and his minions are like the blind guides referenced in the New Testament.
You can call anyone with whom you don’t see eye to eye a “blind guide” but you still haven’t made the case.

We could refer to the case for Trump made by a very intelligent individual as a starting point…



Or we could spell out the accomplishes of Trump and debate those rather than engage in vague generalities which mean nothing.


Wait for it…

… the inevitable excuses begging off the challenge.
 
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I didn’t read the whole thread, but could you please explain your reasoning in more details? Specifically, what are, according to you, the proportionate reasons that would justifiy voting for Biden, in spite of the democratic plan to expand abortion rights?
I’ve stated that numerous times, but since you asked:

There have been Democratic Presidents and Republican Presidents in the time since Roe. Abortion does not go up under Democrats and down under Republicans. It’s been going steadily down for years. The President’s party doesn’t matter.

To elect a Republican just for a Supreme also doesn’t make sense, since we’ve had “conservative” courts at various times since Roe and Roe as not been overturned. Why would it be overturned now?. What’s the legal reasoning to overcome stare decisis?

So, I do not see the President affecting abortion significantly. There are much more real issues facing us, such as a President who takes no responsibility, refuses to lead, lies constantly, has autocratic tendencies, and refuses to even agree to leave office if he loses. There is a great danger to the Republic.

I have to make the standard disclaimer that I’m not a Democrat. I’m a former Republican who is now an independent.
 
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Unless your unstated goal is for the Republicans
I’m not a Republican. Never have been. Though I will admit that at present it’s the only prolife party with any chance of winning. I will not voluntarily give more power ot the abortionists.
There is zero proof that a deep state cabal exists
If one blinds oneself to the news, even the leftist news, one could think that.
Trump knew he had no worries about a conviction in the Senate
I’m not at all sure that’s true. But since it was just a partisan vote, he could have reasonably believed the senate would not convict.
It was apparent then that COVID would be a large problem for the U.S.
It was apparent to Trump. Not to Fauci and certainly not to Biden.
200,000 people are dead because of his gross negligence.
Totally false. The U.S. death rate is not the highest and it appears another wave it just now hitting Europe. Stay tuned. The virus, combined with comorbidities, killed people, Some unnecessary deaths were due to Democrat governors putting sick people in with elderly people with comorbidities.
The Dow has risen 39% since Trump’s election, while under Obama it increased 35% and 65% from the low point in February 2009.
That’s like saying the DOW gained hugely in 1937, which it did. But it was only because it came from such a low point. It took six months for the DOW to gain new highs almost daily. It took Obama four years to even get back to its high under Bush.
Trump inherited an excellent economy. It was trending up.
it was miserable. Obama added millions to the welfare rolls.
. Libya and the Arab Spring weren’t Obama’s wars.
Obama armed the Islamist rebels in Libya and used American air power to bomb Libyan government forces. He started that war and it’s still a terrorist-ridden mess. Obama fomented the ascendancy of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
The $150B was not U.S. taxpayer money. It belonged to Iran.
Wrong. American courts had ruled that the billions would remain sequestered in order to pay claims against Iran by its victims. Obama substituted taxpayer money in that fund so he could give $150 billion to Iran; money the Courts said should stand good for deaths and injuries caused by Iran.
I feel like I am debating Rush Limbaugh’s or Sean Hannity’s talking points.
Then perhaps you could leave off presenting Biden’s and the Democrat media’s talking points.
 
Yeah, no. The greater danger to the Republic is the number of voters who cannot see the truth because they have been mesmerized by leftist talking points and a derelict press.

Trump doesn’t “refuse to lead.” His leadership is just not recognized by those who from the beginning claimed he wasn’t their president. Hillary actually refused to concede for months and advised Biden not to accept the results on election night. Which party’s supporters are threatening to riot or burn the place down on election night?

His “lies” are actually misrepresentations by the media. Your screed is a complete fabrication. Why not debate specifics if you have anything significant to contribute. Start with one of the 75 accomplishments to defend your “refuses to lead” point from the video I linked to last post. Or the two ME peace deals as “failures of leadership.”

The danger to the Republic is in plain sight and it isn’t Trump. It is the violence, intimidation and radical demands of the Democrat minions and the corrupt, lying party leadership who are promoting a senile old man for the office of president so that the radical left wing of the party can control the office.
 
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Harry, I disagree with each paragraph. However, we know from past interactions that it would not be fruitful to engage in debate, so I won’t.
 
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