Why is voting for Biden a mortal sin?

[Boomster1]

I agree with this perspective. I really think the Republican pro-life platform would find a larger audience if the pro-life–umbrella, covered more than just abortion and Euthanasia.

 

[OraLabora]

Sorry but not for you to judge. The proportionate reason can be deeply personal. For instance let’s say one has a rare disease that requires a very expensive drug to stay alive, for the sake of argument, $100k/year. The « pro-life » candidate threatens to cut off funding for it. The pro-choice candidate promises to maintain it.

You have a proportionate reason to vote for the pro-choice candidate.

There can be a multitude of reasons why one may need to postpone voting for a pro-life candidate until a better one comes around. Threats of war, policies leading to a humanitarian disaster, etc. Again, your conscience can only rule your own actions. Not others’.

 

[OraLabora]

Sometimes individual charity is insufficient to counter a social problem. That’s why we need social programs, something most conservatives try to cut.

 

[pnewton]

A very contentious issue such as abortion could very well overthrow his consistent efforts to reinvigorate conservatives in the direction of reasonable defense of a textual reading of the Constitution.

I find conservative constitutional interpretation to be a rather odd principle to elevate over abortion. But you are arguing the president does not like to be contentious?

On the other hand, regardless of his motives, his actions against abortion are still a positive reason to vote for him.

That’s one, albeit a biggie.

 

[HarryStotle]

“According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty. And they die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death.” Poverty Facts and Stats — Global Issues,

What is wrong with being pro-birth? A human life is a wonderful thing. God thinks so much of human birth that he went through it himself.

I noticed your comparables aren’t really comparables. You say 22, 000 children die each day due to poverty. You didn’t provide the comparable that 125, 000 baby lives are terminated each day by abortion.

You also didn’t bring up anything about the green new deal policies of Biden & Co, and the global progressive left that will outlaw cheap and efficient energy sources from nuclear and fossil fuels. Measures that will exponentially multiply the numbers of not just poverty stricken children but of entire nations world-wide. You think poverty is bad now, let the globalists have their way and their agenda of population control will make current poverty seem like abundance in comparison.

 

[HarryStotle]

I respect your opinion. You have every right to it.

With that said, I respectfully disagree with your perspective on Trump’s strategy. We have almost four years of evidence to guide us. I profoundly believe that Trump is incapable of formulating complex strategies. His only go-to is chaos. I am a political moderate and have voted across the aisle on different occasions. I am singularly focused on God’s plan for me and for humanity. I’m not interested in following Trump’s plan.

…

The left isn’t pure either. I’m not defending the liberal establishment. That’s their job. I’m just sick and tired of the pervasive junk we hear from the right.

I can certainly understand how a faithful Catholic could hold their nose and vote for Trump. I freely admit the Republican party is much more likely to end abortion on demand than the Democrats. Nobody could argue that. I just don’t understand how anyone can buy into Trump’s propaganda. He’s a con man.

I’ve noticed that when anyone criticizes Trump they always speak in vague generalities rather than providing specifics.

I’ve also noticed that whenever someone who opposes Trump attempts to specify their critique, it never holds up under scrutiny.

You bring up the deep state as if it is pure propaganda on Trump’s part, yet I am pretty certain you have very little understanding of - for one example - the FISA abuse and targeting of Carter Page and General Flynn by the FBI and likely know very little of Andrew Weissmann’s abuses in the Mueller probe - for example how 31 members of Mueller’s team wiped their phones before turning them into the IG’s oversight investigation.

 

[HarryStotle]

I agree with this perspective. I really think the Republican pro-life platform would find a larger audience if the pro-life–umbrella, covered more than just abortion and Euthanasia.

It does cover more than just abortion and euthanasia. It’s just that Republicans and Conservatives generally view the solution as not as simple as a socialist government doling out to the impoverished the necessities of life that that same socialist government removed in the first place by Draconian authoritarian policies. Covid lockdowns might bring sense to a sufficient number of voters that they will no longer stand for having the wool pulled over their eyes, even if they get warm fuzzy feelings when it happens

Each person bears responsibility for their own well-being and the well-being of those around them. That is a profoundly different view than the leftist notion that the majority of people are helpless and require an all-seeing and all-encompassing political authority to take care of them from cradle to grave, even when their chances of getting to the cradle are minuscule and the grave is made the preferred option for anyone with even a modicum of displeasure.

The critical political enterprise currently is the challenge of persuading the electorate that freedom is more important than security, and that abdicating freedom to pursue a life of one’s choosing, in exchange for “safety” at the hands of political elites is, in the end, a Faustian bargain.

 

[Ridgerunner]

proportionate reasons for his stand on other issues. That’s more or less what the Catechism says.

“Proportionate” reasons are a matter of individual conscience and prudential judgement, not ours to judge but between the voter and God.

False. There is no reason among current election issues proportionate (equally grave) to the intrinsic evil of abortion. That’s why the U.S. bishops have said abortion is the preeminent issue in this election. “Proportionate” does not mean “because I think so”. If Trump was proposing the killing of all people over the age of 60 or all Jews or all blacks, that could be considered “proportionate” perhaps. But nothing Biden espouses combats an evil equally grave with that of abortion. In point of fact, he espouses profound evils in supporting abortion, homosexual profanation of marriage, and possibly even infanticide.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The president of the United States himself fosters a belief in an all-encompassing deep-state, that threatens to destroy his presidency…because Trump and Trump alone has the greatest brain to solve America’s problems and recapture American greatness. Trump’s ability to manipulate and market his brand has created a cult of enablers. Trump can say and do almost anything today because his followers won’t hold him accountable.

Why should Trump not believe in a “deep state” that threatened his presidency? The head of the FBI, the CIA, the Director of National intelligence and others clearly did spy on him and his workers, lie to a judge to get warrants to spy on Carter Page, promote a false narrative paid for by Clinton and full of Russian disinformation, cause a two year investigation by extremely hostile Democrat operatives, all for nothing. And having seen that fail, they impeached him, keeping it up even during the beginnings of the Covid infection.

Of course he has been threatened by the “deep state”. How much more could those weaponized agencies have done? And you call them boogeymen?

And thanks for insulting his supporters with a scurrilous slander. I guess you think we just don’t measure up to your intelligence level, right? And you wonder why we “cultists”,
“irredeemables”, “bitter clingers”, “smelly Walmart shoppers” don’t listen to anything your media says.

I can certainly understand how a faithful Catholic could hold their nose and vote for Trump.

I’ll bet the Little Sisters of the Poor won’t hold their noses when they vote for him after he freed them from Obama’s threatened destruction of their ministry to the poor. Nor will a lot of people working for Catholic charities.

 

[Boomster1]

I’d argue the opposite.

I’m somewhat familiar with the FISA abuse and the Carter page case. Many people on both sides of the political aisle have been warning about the FISA warrants for well over a decade now. A number of Democrat and Republican members of Congress were jumping up and down about the FISA abuses during President Bush’s tenure.

Carter Page was cleared by the Mueller report. General Flynn pled guilty to two counts of lying to the FBI. In exchange for the guilty pleas, the Feds dropped additional charges. Trump pressured the Department of Justice to drop the case against Flynn. This is extraordinarily rare for a defendant who pled guilty.

It’s not uncommon for Law enforcement to violate the 4th Amendment. Local law enforcement and federal law enforcement have evidence excluded all of the time. There are bad cops and bad FBI agents. It happens.

Why was Carter Page involved with the Russians? Why was Paul Manafort involved with the Russians and Ukrainians? Why was General Flynn so involved with the Russians? Why did Trump have so many connections between his campaign and the Russian government? It should come as no surprise to anyone that all of this foreign activity attracted Federal eyes and ears. If anything, Mueller and his team didn’t dig deep enough. The full story is just starting to come out.

I have no doubt that there were abuses. Again, that’s not uncommon for law enforcement. Our system of justice rewards aggressive police work.

It’s dangerous when a presidential candidate wraps himself in these conspiracy theories to insulate himself from any consequences of wrongdoing. At this point, Trump has convinced 40% of Americans that the Deep State is out to get him and he is the only hope for our nation…and that only he can return the nation to its founding principles. When Trump is accused of wrongdoing, he just plays the deep state card and because the victim of a corrupt all-powerful federal Bureaucracy out to get him. We’re at a dangerous point in our nation’s history.

I was pretty specific when it comes to my criticism of Trump. I can get more specific.

None of us little people really know whether a shallow state or a deep state really exists. I have to believe a lot of dedicated patriots occupy the numerous positions in the various federal agencies. Additionally, we have no idea if such an entity has the power Trump asserts. I know this. Trump is the Commander in Chief of the most powerful armed forces on earth. He controls the Department of Justice as well as the other Federal agencies. He has more information gathering resources at his fingertips than anyone in the world.

 

[Boomster1]

If QAnon and the other conspiracy theories are correct, why hasn’t anyone been brought to justice in the past 4 years? If the Clintons are truly guilty of the things conservatives have alleged over the last 25 years, surely Trump’s Justice Department would have acted by now. What’s Trump waiting for?

I need real data before I believe the wild accusations that rage across Facebook and other social media. Roger Stone and his ilk have been playing political games with our elections since the late 1960’s. Unfortunately, they now have the internet to spread their lies. It spreads like wildfire and potentially endangers our republic.

Isn’t it just possible that Trump has invented this entire Deep State thing because he has a vested interest in insulating himself against prosecution for wrongdoing?

What’s more likely here?

1. A massive deep state shadow government exists that can control and threaten with impunity…every lever of our republic. Why didn’t this deep state rear its ugly head before now? Is Trump really the only squeaky clean non-politician who can stand up to the deep state? It doesn’t even sound logical when you say it out loud.
2. Trump is a con man who manipulated his way into the presidency. All we have to do his look at his history as a human being. Repeat adulterer, draft dodger, vulgar reality TV star, and corrupt businessman. I can get into the specifics and details of each allegation but is it really necessary?

A lot of Trump’s colleagues have been indicted and convicted. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. strong text

 

[HarryStotle]

I’d argue the opposite.

…

Why was Carter Page involved with the Russians? Why was Paul Manafort involved with the Russians and Ukrainians? Why was General Flynn so involved with the Russians? Why did Trump have so many connections between his campaign and the Russian government? It should come as no surprise to anyone that all of this foreign activity attracted Federal eyes and ears. If anything, Mueller and his team didn’t dig deep enough. The full story is just starting to come out.

Here we go again with allusions and hand waving.

Provide the specifics of the “involvement” with the Russians so that we can address those rather than starting with a presumption that there was collusion.

When did you stop beating your wife?

My guess is that every specific point you care to raise will be debunked or you will find some excuse for avoiding providing anything with evidentiary value.

Carter Page worked for the CIA when he was involved with the Russians. As was made clear by the IGs report.

Manafort was working with and for Tony Podesta (brother of John Podesta HRC’s campaign manager) when he was “colluding.” Tony did more working with the Russians than Manafort but was uncharged after providing evidence against Manafort. Convenient for Tony that he was so highly connected, while Manafort wasn’t.

I could go on, but I’ll wait for your specifics.

 

[Boomster1]

Trump surrounded himself with Russophiles. Paul Manafort, General Flynn, George Papadopoulos, Donald Trump Jr., Jeff Sessions, Jarod Kushner, Carter Page, Michael Cohen, and many others.

Trump’s campaign had more than 140 contacts with Russia during the campaign and during the transition period. Trump was fishing for Campaign dirt. Russia was only happy to oblige.

Of course, the Feds started to investigate and monitor the Trump campaign. There was just way too much foreign interference with the 2016 presidential campaign going on.

There’s definitely evidence of surveillance just like there’s evidence of Trump-Russia entanglements. There is no evidence of a deep state conspiracy. Is there evidence that Federal law enforcement violated the 4th amendment? Yep, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of law enforcement activity triggers the exclusionary rule. Carter Page seems to be one of the FBI’s innocent targets.

I acknowledge that a number of Trump supporters believe in the deep state. However, there is no objective proof of a deep state. There is no proof that Trump has been threatened or victimized by said deep state.
For the sake of argument, I’ll even concede there is a deep state. Trump still holds all of the cards. He’s the commander in chief. He heads the Justice Department the other Federal Agencies. He can render them impotent if he likes. Trump has the largest microphone in the world. Why not broadcast everything he knows and layout all of the evidence? He doesn’t have any evidence. He’s just making “stuff” up.

And thanks for insulting his supporters with a scurrilous slander. I guess you think we just don’t measure up to your intelligence level, right? And you wonder why we “cultists”,
“irredeemables”, “bitter clingers”, “smelly Walmart shoppers” don’t listen to anything your media says.

I never said that every Trump voter is a cult member. I know a lot of super-intelligent Trump voters. I said “cult of enablers”. These are people that parrot Trump word-for-word after he parrots Foxnews word-for-word. In my experience, just watch Foxnews tonight and you’ll be able to predict what Trump’s new policy will be tomorrow.

You used the other pejoratives. I didn’t. I don’t believe anyone is irredeemable and I even shop at Walmart a few times a year. Can’t stand the long lines at the checkout, but that is a different debate for another time. I’m not even sure what a “bitter clinger” is. I’m afraid to google it

 

[HarryStotle]

A lot of Trump’s colleagues have been indicted and convicted. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

All process crimes or for matters unrelated to Trump.

The fires all occur in areas (geographically and politically) controlled by the Democrats. Where there is fire you will see and smell stuff burn.

 

[HarryStotle]

Trump surrounded himself with Russophiles. Paul Manafort, General Flynn, George Papadopoulos, Donald Trump Jr., Jeff Sessions, Jarod Kushner, Carter Page, Michael Cohen, and many others.

Trump’s campaign had more than 140 contacts with Russia during the campaign and during the transition period. Trump was fishing for Campaign dirt. Russia was only happy to oblige.

Of course, the Feds started to investigate and monitor the Trump campaign. There was just way too much foreign interference with the 2016 presidential campaign going on.

There’s definitely evidence of surveillance just like there’s evidence of Trump-Russia entanglements. There is no evidence of a deep state conspiracy. Is there evidence that Federal law enforcement violated the 4th amendment? Yep, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of law enforcement activity triggers the exclusionary rule. Carter Page seems to be one of the FBI’s innocent targets.

I acknowledge that a number of Trump supporters believe in the deep state. However, there is no objective proof of a deep state. There is no proof that Trump has been threatened or victimized by said deep state.
For the sake of argument, I’ll even concede there is a deep state. Trump still holds all of the cards. He’s the commander in chief. He heads the Justice Department the other Federal Agencies. He can render them impotent if he likes. Trump has the largest microphone in the world. Why not broadcast everything he knows and layout all of the evidence? He doesn’t have any evidence. He’s just making “stuff” up.

Again no evidence just assertions. Evidence.

 

[pnewton]

I’d argue the opposite.

That was my thought as well. The current administration has a beam in its eye on abuse of federal office. It is one of his greatest hypocrisies, of which there are many. “Deep State” is propaganda, in that it is an ominous name for the reality that most federal employees must be career, and not tied to political changes. Some are by nature liberal Democrats, others conservative Republicans, and everything in between. However, it is propaganda to speak of this in such Orwellian terms. After all, not everyone has the privilege of being the son, daughter, or son-in-law of a president. I have never seen such nepotism and perversion of the federal government as I have under this president.

 

[Boomster1]

Little people go to prison for “process crimes” all of the time.

You may be right. The criminal allegations may be just a political hack by the Democrats. Turn the tables a bit though…it may just be that the Republicans won’t enforce the law in the Red States. The Democrats will. We’re just chirping at each other now.

I live in a world of “show me” If you’re going to author (not you personally) earth-shattering conspiracy theories, you have to connect the dots. Trump never connects the dots. He just says stuff.

 

[Boomster1]

Quote from AG Barr’s Summary Report:

“The Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.’”

Partial transcript from Mueller’s House Testimony:

NADLER: Director Mueller, the president has repeatedly claimed that your report found there was no obstruction and that it completely and totally exonerated him, but that is not what your report said, is it?

MUELLER: Correct. That is not what the report said.

Key Lines from the Mueller Report:

The evidence “about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred…”

“If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state.”

“The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law.”

“[T]he investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts…”

The Mueller investigation resulted in more than a nothing burger. It’s now just coming out that members of Mueller’s prosecution team wanted to dig deeper into Trump’s financial dealings with Russia. Trump and his campaign staff were up to no good and their extraordinary activity attracted attention.

It may be that a few agents took shortcuts. It may even be that several agents had an internal bias against Trump. That doesn’t make Trump’s bad acts magically disappear. I’d bet that history won’t be kind to the Trump presidency.

 

[HarryStotle]

The Mueller investigation resulted in more than a nothing burger. It’s now just coming out that members of Mueller’s prosecution team wanted to dig deeper into Trump’s financial dealings with Russia. Trump and his campaign staff were up to no good and their extraordinary activity attracted attention.

Pure conjecture. You have nothing.

 

[HarryStotle]

Trump’s campaign had more than 140 contacts with Russia during the campaign and during the transition period.

This is the closest thing you have to hard evidence In your posts. The fact that it is is quite telling because if you had anything substantial you would have provided it.

The reason that your 140 contacts claim is empty is because it is made without context. As such it is meaningless. How many contacts with other significant nations in the world does any American administration have during the transition period? Two? Twenty? A thousand? How many with a country like Russia specifically?

How many contacts did the transition team have with China? North Korea? If comparable or higher in number would that mean Trump is necessarily colluding with China or North Korea?

What was the nature of the contacts? Friendly? Clarifying? Informative? You don’t say or even bring it up.

How many of those 140 contacts occurred during the transition rather than during the campaign? Might make a difference, no?

How have Trump’s policies after election benefited Russia or in any way proved collusion?

You appear to have a distinctive lack of interest in pursuing the evidence to what it actually signifies rather than to what you hope it might or to what you hope others might glean from it based upon superficialities.