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dolphinlove
Guest
- Also claim its answered already, but since said person has a ‘short’
memory, and living in a world of fantasy answers, they try and change the subject… once again.
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Maria65
Guest
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Plantens responses will either be…
- The link is broken.
- Ive answered that already and stating an older number post… maybe #59
- Your post is too long
- I cant remember from post that long ago.
- That post is too long.
- I need to change the subject
- The post is too long
- The post is to long and i cant remember it all
- Did i mention the post is too long? My memory is not so good
- Not answer at all, wait until another thread opens up, then deliver the exact same arguments.
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
I suppose planten isn’t going to respond to my response to him? 
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DavidMark
Guest
I don’t believe true islám denies the crucifixion of the body of Jesus, but modern Moslems do. They also reject Siyyid-i-Báb Who had to be executed twice by firing squad in Persia, on July 9th, 1850. And it was Moslem kings and clergy who persecuted and exiled Bahá’u’lláh.
During the days of Jesus Christ the Jews were expecting the appearance of the Messiah, praying and beseeching God day and night that the Promised One might appear.
Why did they reject Him when He did appear?
They denied Him absolutely, refused to believe in Him. There was no abuse and persecution which they did not heap upon Him. They reviled Him with curses, placed a crown of thorns upon His head, led Him through the streets in scorn and derision and finally crucified Him. Why did they do this?
Because they did not investigate the truth or reality of Christ and were not able to recognize Him as the Messiah of God.
Had they investigated sincerely for themselves, they would surely have believed in Him, respected Him and bowed before Him in reverence. They would have considered His manifestation the greatest bestowal upon mankind. They would have accepted Him as the very Savior of man; but, alas, they were veiled, they held to imitations of ancestral beliefs and hearsay and did not investigate the truth of Christ. They were submerged in the sea of superstitions and were, therefore, deprived of witnessing that glorious bounty; they were withheld from the fragrances or breaths of the Holy Spirit and suffered in themselves the greatest debasement and degradation. (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62)
**Islam, at once the progenitor and persecutor of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh, is, if we read aright the signs of the times, only beginning to sustain the impact of this invincible and triumphant Faith. We need only recall the nineteen hundred years of abject misery and dispersion which they, who only for the short space of three years persecuted the Son of God, have had to endure, and are still enduring. We may well ask ourselves, with mingled feelings of dread and awe, how severe must be the tribulations of those who, during no less than fifty years, have, “at every moment tormented with a fresh torment” Him Who is the Father, and who have, in addition, made His Herald – Himself a Manifestation of God – to quaff, in such tragic circumstances, the cup of martyrdom. **(Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 99)
During the days of Jesus Christ the Jews were expecting the appearance of the Messiah, praying and beseeching God day and night that the Promised One might appear.
Why did they reject Him when He did appear?
They denied Him absolutely, refused to believe in Him. There was no abuse and persecution which they did not heap upon Him. They reviled Him with curses, placed a crown of thorns upon His head, led Him through the streets in scorn and derision and finally crucified Him. Why did they do this?
Because they did not investigate the truth or reality of Christ and were not able to recognize Him as the Messiah of God.
Had they investigated sincerely for themselves, they would surely have believed in Him, respected Him and bowed before Him in reverence. They would have considered His manifestation the greatest bestowal upon mankind. They would have accepted Him as the very Savior of man; but, alas, they were veiled, they held to imitations of ancestral beliefs and hearsay and did not investigate the truth of Christ. They were submerged in the sea of superstitions and were, therefore, deprived of witnessing that glorious bounty; they were withheld from the fragrances or breaths of the Holy Spirit and suffered in themselves the greatest debasement and degradation. (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62)
**Islam, at once the progenitor and persecutor of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh, is, if we read aright the signs of the times, only beginning to sustain the impact of this invincible and triumphant Faith. We need only recall the nineteen hundred years of abject misery and dispersion which they, who only for the short space of three years persecuted the Son of God, have had to endure, and are still enduring. We may well ask ourselves, with mingled feelings of dread and awe, how severe must be the tribulations of those who, during no less than fifty years, have, “at every moment tormented with a fresh torment” Him Who is the Father, and who have, in addition, made His Herald – Himself a Manifestation of God – to quaff, in such tragic circumstances, the cup of martyrdom. **(Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 99)
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sedonaman
Guest
And what, pray tell, has this and all the Bahá’u’lláh stuff that followed have to do with the topic?
Why do I get the feeling that if the topic were, “Is it going to rain today?”, you’d morph the discussion into a lecture on Bahá’u’lláh?
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
To reiterate the Frasier quote I gave earlier…
“What color is the sky in your world?”
“What color is the sky in your world?”
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KathleenGee
Guest
And I find it particularly disturbing when Muslims will hit the streets, etc., declare fatwa when somebody makes fun of Muhammed, but think nothing of coming into a Catholic site – with its many scholastic references, not even understanding the type of thinking put into them, and then offend some of us by stubbornly providing myths and heresies to deny His crucifixion, thinking they are planting seeds of Islam.
The Muslims have no real scholarship. Planten and others should look back to the Arab scholars who drew on Aristotle and facilitated the golden age of Islam they so yearn to return to.
I was reading about how the Lebanonese Muslims are very jealous of the middle class Christians there. Polygamy is not only now illicit among Jews and Christians, but it is also impoverizing their own families, and making dhimmi of their harems. I read a commentary on life of the Arab women in Palestine just a few years before 1967 Israel. A photo was taken of a desert Arab woman, with her head covered, but her skin aged and looking much older than her actual age. Her husband took on a new wife. At night only a curtain separated them, and she could hear her husband…
Women have a much stronger and more profound reaction against Islam.
The Shephardic Jews had many recognize Christ as the Messiah in His time. St. Paul also says the Lord hardened the hearts of the Jews not to accept Him so that the faith could go out to the Gentiles.
I find the Hebrew Catholic sharings on their site so profound. If the Church had been mainly run by the Jews, and not the Italians
, I think we would unintentionally be 2nd class believers.
There are many Muslims who want to convert, or have, but must be quiet or face death. In the land of Islam, many will put on their registration card that they are Muslim so they can profit from their societies’ benefits.
The Muslims have no real scholarship. Planten and others should look back to the Arab scholars who drew on Aristotle and facilitated the golden age of Islam they so yearn to return to.
I was reading about how the Lebanonese Muslims are very jealous of the middle class Christians there. Polygamy is not only now illicit among Jews and Christians, but it is also impoverizing their own families, and making dhimmi of their harems. I read a commentary on life of the Arab women in Palestine just a few years before 1967 Israel. A photo was taken of a desert Arab woman, with her head covered, but her skin aged and looking much older than her actual age. Her husband took on a new wife. At night only a curtain separated them, and she could hear her husband…
Women have a much stronger and more profound reaction against Islam.
The Shephardic Jews had many recognize Christ as the Messiah in His time. St. Paul also says the Lord hardened the hearts of the Jews not to accept Him so that the faith could go out to the Gentiles.
I find the Hebrew Catholic sharings on their site so profound. If the Church had been mainly run by the Jews, and not the Italians
, I think we would unintentionally be 2nd class believers.There are many Muslims who want to convert, or have, but must be quiet or face death. In the land of Islam, many will put on their registration card that they are Muslim so they can profit from their societies’ benefits.
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sedonaman
Guest
Someone in our Bible study group the other night made a comment that there is evidence to suggest that the original reason “Roman” Catholics were called such is because Church law was based on the Roman model of law. An interesting idea.…
If the Church had been mainly run by the Jews, and not the Italians
…
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Which is entirely his fault, I’m sad to say. If he posted something constructive and with reviewable sources, he might have a case and get some respect. As it stands, he barges into a thread, makes bold declarations against Christians and their history, then refuses to back them up when asked to prove himself. Then he plays the silly “your post is too long” or “I already answered your post” games that everyone can see through.
As I said before, I feel bad for the Muslims on this forum that their posts go alongside his. If he treated everyone seriously, people would take him seriously.
As I said before, I feel bad for the Muslims on this forum that their posts go alongside his. If he treated everyone seriously, people would take him seriously.
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DavidMark
Guest
Friends,
I hope it is understood that the problems of Islam don’t mean it is not a chapter in God’s progressive revelations. The earlier faiths suffer similar misunderstandings.
The Holy Qur’án re-tells the stories of a series of Divine Messengers, including Moses and Jesus, as part of an ancient faith of islám.
For instance,
Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian; but he was sound in faith, a muslim, and not of those who add gods to God. ~Q 3:60
And Moses said: “O my people! if ye believe in God, then put your trust in Him -if ye be muslims. ~10:84
And when Jesus perceived unbelief on their part, He said ‘Who are my helpers with God?’ The apostles said, ‘We will be God’s helpers! We believe in God, and bear thou witness that we are muslims’. ~3:44
Now, the Twin Messengers have come, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh, and Muhammadanism, the contemporary religion which promotes conflicting hadíth, the sunnah, the sharíah, and military jihad and which still makes pilgrimage to Wahhabist Mecca, and does not recognize any Prophet after Muhammad, --these cling to the interpretations of their leaders and ignore, or actually oppose Muhammad’s warnings, while still claiming to follow him. Bearing in mind the difference between islám and Islam, consider the following:
The Báb (1819-1850) said:
**If ye are truly faithful to Muhammad, the Apostle of God and the Seal of the Prophets, and if ye follow His Book, the Qur’án, which is free from error, then here is the like of it -this Book, which We have, in truth and by the leave of God, sent down unto Our Servant. If ye fail to believe in Him, then your faith in Muhammad and His Book which was revealed in the past will indeed be treated as false in the estimation of God. **~Qayyúm’ul-Asmá, IV, SWB p.46
**O people of the Qur’án! Ye are as nothing unless ye submit unto the Remembrance of God and unto this Book. **~Selections from the Writings of the Báb p. 61
If this is true, then a punishment comparable to the dispora of the Jews awaits the Muslims. Already colonial powers had their way in Muslim lands, and the Jews, who were promised a Return have come back to establish the state of Israel. This is one of the most evident proofs for those who have eyes to see.
I hope it is understood that the problems of Islam don’t mean it is not a chapter in God’s progressive revelations. The earlier faiths suffer similar misunderstandings.
The Holy Qur’án re-tells the stories of a series of Divine Messengers, including Moses and Jesus, as part of an ancient faith of islám.
For instance,
Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian; but he was sound in faith, a muslim, and not of those who add gods to God. ~Q 3:60
And Moses said: “O my people! if ye believe in God, then put your trust in Him -if ye be muslims. ~10:84
And when Jesus perceived unbelief on their part, He said ‘Who are my helpers with God?’ The apostles said, ‘We will be God’s helpers! We believe in God, and bear thou witness that we are muslims’. ~3:44
Now, the Twin Messengers have come, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh, and Muhammadanism, the contemporary religion which promotes conflicting hadíth, the sunnah, the sharíah, and military jihad and which still makes pilgrimage to Wahhabist Mecca, and does not recognize any Prophet after Muhammad, --these cling to the interpretations of their leaders and ignore, or actually oppose Muhammad’s warnings, while still claiming to follow him. Bearing in mind the difference between islám and Islam, consider the following:
The Báb (1819-1850) said:
**If ye are truly faithful to Muhammad, the Apostle of God and the Seal of the Prophets, and if ye follow His Book, the Qur’án, which is free from error, then here is the like of it -this Book, which We have, in truth and by the leave of God, sent down unto Our Servant. If ye fail to believe in Him, then your faith in Muhammad and His Book which was revealed in the past will indeed be treated as false in the estimation of God. **~Qayyúm’ul-Asmá, IV, SWB p.46
**O people of the Qur’án! Ye are as nothing unless ye submit unto the Remembrance of God and unto this Book. **~Selections from the Writings of the Báb p. 61
If this is true, then a punishment comparable to the dispora of the Jews awaits the Muslims. Already colonial powers had their way in Muslim lands, and the Jews, who were promised a Return have come back to establish the state of Israel. This is one of the most evident proofs for those who have eyes to see.
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planten
Guest
B W, did you see my post shown below? Besides there were my other posts #241, #242, #256, #265 and this latest which is shown below. I had replied to all what you said.
Every one knows what you wrote and what I wrote. I told you that I did not have anything new to say. So that is it.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Mohammed simply denies that Christ died on the cross…
Posters, inform me if you know of any sects in Jesus’ time denying He died on a cross.
Mohammed not only denies the crucifixion of Christ, but He denies that Jesus is the Son of God, merely human like Mohammed.
To separate the human from the divine…this also happened to the truth of Who Christ is in the years following His death and resurrection.
The more people divide humanity from God, and look only to God in a manner that is to justify their superiority to others, the human the rest of mankind is. And when we are not fully human because we are infidels because we believe in the inherent relational aspect of the Trinity, and this is the essence of God as love…
Then our remarks wouldn’t matter, because we are not fully human without Allah.
Posters, inform me if you know of any sects in Jesus’ time denying He died on a cross.
Mohammed not only denies the crucifixion of Christ, but He denies that Jesus is the Son of God, merely human like Mohammed.
To separate the human from the divine…this also happened to the truth of Who Christ is in the years following His death and resurrection.
The more people divide humanity from God, and look only to God in a manner that is to justify their superiority to others, the human the rest of mankind is. And when we are not fully human because we are infidels because we believe in the inherent relational aspect of the Trinity, and this is the essence of God as love…
Then our remarks wouldn’t matter, because we are not fully human without Allah.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Thanks for the responses to the name Roman Catholic…I thought it was because Peter was led by the Holy Spirit to Rome to begin His church, and that Rome is the eternal city, this implying a perspective of universality.
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Yes, of course I did. The question is, do you bother to read my posts?
I responded to the post you quoted, as shown in the quoted post above.
So you’re basically admitting that you have no argument?
I’m happy to know that Islam’s beliefs regarding the crucifixion do not stand up to scrutiny.
Doxa soi, Kyrie, doxa soi! 
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Nine_Two
Guest
In other words you can’t answer for the half truths you made?
In any instance, did you read that link I posted, from one of the myths from the branch of “Christianity” you claim Islam is based off of? How do you feel about worshipping an evil demon-lord?
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jakasaki
Guest
Be well my dear friend. I actually laughed when plantin said that he “has no new material”… as if he is a comedian with no new material for his audience!
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Specifically the French knights in The Holy Grail…
Christian #1: “My good man, there is ample evidence that the crucifixion happened. We would like to present it to you that Jesus died and rose again…”
Planten: “I don’t think we’ll be very keen - we’ve got Jesus here you see.”
Christian #1: “What?!”
Christian #2: “He said they’ve got Jesus up there.”
Christian #1: “Are you sure?”
Planten: “Oh yes! He’s uncrucified and feeling very nice!” to the side “I told them we have Jesus.” snickers
Christian #1: “Now look here…”
Planten: “I don’t wanna debate you no more, you stupid Christian kannnnnnnnnnnnniggits! Go boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person! I fffffffffffffart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries! Thhhhhhhhbbbbb!!!”
Christian #1: “My good man, there is ample evidence that the crucifixion happened. We would like to present it to you that Jesus died and rose again…”
Planten: “I don’t think we’ll be very keen - we’ve got Jesus here you see.”
Christian #1: “What?!”
Christian #2: “He said they’ve got Jesus up there.”
Christian #1: “Are you sure?”
Planten: “Oh yes! He’s uncrucified and feeling very nice!” to the side “I told them we have Jesus.” snickers
Christian #1: “Now look here…”
Planten: “I don’t wanna debate you no more, you stupid Christian kannnnnnnnnnnnniggits! Go boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person! I fffffffffffffart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries! Thhhhhhhhbbbbb!!!”
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jakasaki
Guest
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Nine_Two
Guest
You must have had a censored version.
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