"Why It Won’t Stop With Statues." Article on why it can be expected that the mayhem will get worse

[Anrakyr]

No, pointing out the types of crimes attributed to white collar crime that your average police officer doesn’t deal in.

 

[vz71]

OK, so a hedge fund manager really isn’t criminal…unless they participate in tax evasion.

 

[VonDerTann]

BTW - it’s interesting that Rubee says the article is not an opinion piece, yet when you click the link she gave and the article comes up, what does it say?

“OPINIONS”

Plus, it’s also interesting that now she’s defending the author as a “scholar,” yet when you click his name to see his bio, his bio calls him an…“opinion writer.”

LOL!

 

[Rubee]

Related to that - I have a social worker relative who told me that child abuse rates are the same across all the different demographic groups - rich, poor, white, black, etc. But disproportionately, the poor and the black are much more likely to come to the attention of authorities - the whiter and richer you are, the less likely you are even to show up on the statistics.

Stacie, there’s a bazillion listed studies that show American police disproportionately target black people for stop and search for contraband despite White people being more likely to be caught with it upon search. The beloved talking points have been controlled for and no, the studies do not show that the reason cops target Black people is more crime. To the contrary, they show the police don’t even take crimes committed against Black people as seriously as they do for White victims. The systemic racism is at every stage of the process from multiple angles.

 

[StudentMI]

And violent crime?

 

[VonDerTann]

So we’re going to criminalize making money?

Sheesh, this board is getting scary?

And as to contributing value, I’d love if you can even state what a hedge fund manager even does, because I suspect you really have no clue.

For the record, NO ONE on this board should EVER say ANY profession contibutes nothing of value to society (except maybe abortionists).

 

[VonDerTann]

And I say…you’re wrong!

That “mountain of evidence” became a molehill quickly.

 

[Rubee]

BTW - it’s interesting that Rubee says the article is not an opinion piece, yet when you click the link she gave and the article comes up, what does it say?

Nice non-argument. Cite where Rubee has said its not an opinion piece: Sure its in the “opinion piece” section of Washington post, but it is also a list of actual studies (not “opinions”), and their actual findings, linked to the studies, and compiled there by a scholar in the field. And it’s interesting you have to come to CAF to find out the findings are misreported, rather than from the scholars whose findings are cited, summarized, and linked.

And all this from people who are allegedly interested in finding evidence of the issue, to boot.

 

[StudentMI]

And all this from people who are allegedly interested in finding evidence of the issue, to boot.

The burden of proof isn’t on one to prove something doesn’t exist. If someone doubts systemic racism exists, then it’s your job to provide evidence. If that evidence is seen as wanting then you, if you wish to change their mind, are obligated to provide more evidence.

I have to confess I’m not really convinced it’s a thing. The evidence I’ve seen has been found wanting and seems more like a critique of poverty than anything else.

 

[Rubee]

That “mountain of evidence” became a molehill quickly.

The mountain of evidence is there. That you have someone running interference with stellar “I don’t like it” non-arguments so you don’t have to read all those uncomfortable findings (or the studies linked) doesn’t make them magically poof. They are still there and you cannot credibly claim to be uninformed about the evidence while saying “systemic racism is a myth.”

 

[StudentMI]

I didn’t realize sharing my opinion was ‘running interference’.

 

[Rubee]

I didn’t realize sharing my opinion was ‘running interference’.

Shockingly, you’re not the only one who can do that. I suppose you still haven’t found some reason to think the studies listed are faked or their findings misreported beyond not personally liking the article?

 

[StudentMI]

Shockingly, you’re not the only one who can do that. I suppose you still haven’t found some reason to think the studies listed are faked or their findings beyond not liking the article?

Check your PMs.

 

[Anrakyr]

I didn’t realize sharing my opinion was ‘running interference’.

You are ganging up on her and not addressing the research points of the paper.

 

[VonDerTann]

Ganging up?

More like “her opinion piece that she keeps calling a study doesn’t convince anyone.”

 

[ProdglArchitect]

All those beloved Right-wing myths about “Blacks commit more crimes, that’s why they’re targeted” are well studied and dismissed . . . you know, by the evidence you claimed you were interested in.

The argument isn’t that African Americans commit more crimes in number. The issue is that, by the justice departments own numbers, they account for a disproportionately large percentage of crimes committed.

This is the 2018 fact sheet from Department of Justice dealing with violent crimes in the US:

Criminal Victimization, 2018

According to this data, black individuals make up approx 12% of the population, but are responsible for ~25% of violent crimes. By contrast, whites make up 69% of the population and are responsible for ~49% of violent crimes.

That means that the ratio of offender to population for whites is ~.8, while the ratio for blacks is ~2.1. What that means is that adjusting for population, a black person is nearly three times as likely to be an offender as a white person. The only group with a higher representation was “other,” which is just a conglomeration of most other races in America (excluding white, black, and Hispanic), representing 2.4% of the population but 6% of all crime. Interestingly, black and other are also the only two classifications where you are more likely to be an offender than a victim; in the case of blacks you are almost twice as likely to be an offender than a victim…

These are the numbers, plain and simple. They are not a call for racist action against African Americans, nor for profiling or anything else. We can discuss what we think the reasons are, but you cannot ignore the numbers. Whites may commit more crimes in total, but blacks are more likely to commit crimes on an individual basis.

Again, I have no racist intent in writing this. These are just the numbers as reported by the department of Justice. If you look at the numbers in the 2012-2015 report, they are roughly the same. Both black and white groups have a slightly higher representation ratios, about .2 more each.

The good news is that, by and large, all crime rates among all groups had been dropping prior to 2020. They’ve shot up this year by quite a bit, but hopefully people will come back to their senses and we’ll return to the downward trend.

 

[VonDerTann]

What I’ve read of the opinion piece doesn’t convince me: The author assumes that his conclusion (the system is racist!) is the only valid one, when there are others (i.e. Blacks simply commit more crimes; the author himself is biased; etc.)

 

[Rubee]

What I’ve read of the opinion piece doesn’t convince me: The author assumes that his conclusion (the system is racist!) is the only valid one, when there are others (i.e. Blacks simply commit more crimes; the author himself is biased; etc.)

You keep jumping on this author as if that magically poofs the bazillion findings he’s cited: why do you care about his conclusions? It’s the studies and findings listed that matter for a person who claims to want evidence. Like I said, you can happily ignore it but never credibly claim to be unaware of evidence of systemic racism.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thanks for that article.

You have to read the entire article to understand the context of what was previously posted in this thread and the article provides it.

It was controversial and the idea that Lincoln was a white supremacist was presented by a black journalists, Lerone Bennette Jr. and with his own bias and claimed that Lincoln was a white supremacist. He used Lincoln’s words in a debate he was in with Stephen A. Douglas.

However, his position was dismissed by various historians and the one that caught my eye probably said it best.

Professor Fredrickson also points out that we should devote careful attention to what Lincoln claimed for the Negro in the Ottawa address. Despite the differences he saw between the races, Lincoln did hold that there was “no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Judged within the context of his own times, Lincoln, as Fredrickson notes, occupied a middle position between those who, like Douglas, would deny the Negro every human right and the small group of abolitionists who supported the radical doctrine of racial equality.

.///////

In other words, we have to judge Lincoln in the context of the era he lived in, and what he had to deal with in order to end slavery.

There is no way Lincoln could’ve advocated full voting rights and citizenship for the free slaves in order to end slavery. The nation was not ready for it at that time. Heck it caused a civil war.

However, to label Lincoln as a white supremacist in the mindset of the 20th century as Bennette did, is flawed and racists in itself.

 

[Shakuhachi]

That means that the ratio of offender to population for whites is ~.8, while the ratio for blacks is ~2.1. What that means is that adjusting for population, a black person is nearly three times as likely to be an offender than white person.

If that is true it is a statement about poverty. A few generations ago these people were slaves. When freedom came it came with Jim Crow laws. To this day the odds are stacked against them.