Why We Fight

[Matt25]

cestusdei:

Matt,
Yes, in WWII we did bail you out and we do expect a little appreciation

But less than the Soviet Union?

You did in Yugoslavia, remember?

Actually I opposed the murderous assault on Serbia. Hardly surprising considering I am a Pacifist.

Your tired kneejerk anti-Americanism is no longer a concern to us. Americans are becoming immune to the opinions of quisling Europeans. We realize you hate us no matter what we do.

What anti-Americanism did you have in mind?. Since the British Armed forces were/are involved in military operations in the Former Yugosalvia, Afghanistan and Iraq you could equally well accuse me of being anti-British. I will point out though that the ease with which some Americans, by which I mean people like you, forget the existence of even their closest Allies is a factor fuelling worldwide anti-American sentiment. The Red Army, by the way was also a US ally 1941-1945.

You point out how UN sanctions failed.

No, I pointed out the opposite, UN sanctions succeeded in killing around 500 000 Iraqi’s. One reason why they were fiercely opposed by the Holy Father.

You forget though how many hundreds of thousands were killed by Saddam. Think of how many Iraqi’s are alive today because he isn’t in power. Thanks to US.

Human Rights did not constitute a Casus Belli if they did then why invade Iraq instead of the Congo where 4 million people have died over the past 6 years, and where people continue to die at the rate of 31 000 a month?

Exactly how many Iraqi’s are alive today because Saddam is no longer in power?

 

[Matt25]

condan:

Certainly this isn’t the entire Koran, is it? I have heard other verses that support a completely different point of view which hardly demonstrates a “religion of peace”. You seem to have a pre-disposition towards supporting Islam and denigrating the United States, your alleged ally.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...hf_jp-ii_spe_20041029_ambassador-iran_en.html
ADDRESS OF JOHN PAUL II
TO H.E. MR MOHAMMAD JAVAD FARIDZADE
AMBASSADOR OF IRAN TO THE HOLY SEE*
Friday, 29 October 2004

• Mr Ambassador, you referred to your Country’s concern at the deterioration of the international situation and the threats that burden humanity at many levels. To achieve a balanced international order, especially in the face of terrorism that seeks to impose its own laws, the will to build a common future guaranteeing peace for all implies that States undertake to set up stable, effective and recognized means, such as the United Nations Organization and the other international organizations.

This action to encourage peace also entails courageous action against terrorism and for peace, to build a world in which all may recognize that they are sons and daughters of the same Almighty and Merciful God.

Of course, the building of peace presupposes mutual trust, in order to receive the other not as a threat but as a partner, and to accept in addition the constraints and measures for control implied by common commitments, such as treaties and multilateral agreements, in the different areas of international relations that affect the common good of humanity, including respect for the environment, the regulation of the arms trade and the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, the protection of children and the rights of minorities.

For its part, the Holy See will spare no effort to convince the leaders of States to avoid using violence or force in all circumstances and always to make negotiation prevail as the means to overcome the disagreements and conflicts that can develop between nations, groups and individuals.

The commitment in favour of the human being rests for believers on faith in the one God who created man in his image and likeness and has revealed his will to humankind. As for Christians, if this necessary dialogue between persons is to succeed in establishing relations of brotherhood and mutual love between them, it is fundamentally a response to the dialogue that God himself already began with man when he revealed his Word and proposed his Covenant to him. As you emphasized, Mr Ambassador, it is our duty as believers to proclaim to our contemporaries the fundamental values expressed in religion which, through natural law, guarantee the dignity of every human person, a sign of God’s hallmark in the human being, and regulate the relations of men and women with their peers.

As I have so often recalled, the Cath-olic faithful, for their part, seek in all circumstances to witness to their pro-life approach that respects the human being from conception to one’s natural end and guarantees the defence of the person’s imperscriptible rights and duties.

As I have recalled countless times, “The various Christian confessions, as well as the world’s great religions, need to work together to eliminate the social and cultural causes of terrorism. They can do this by teaching the greatness and dignity of the human person, and by spreading a clearer sense of the oneness of the human family” (Message for World Day of Peace 2002, n. 12).

**I am especially delighted at the establishment in your Country of regular meetings for high-level dialogue between Christians and Muslims, under the patronage of the *Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue ***and the Shi"ite Authorities of Iran. I have no doubt that this initiative will pave the way to a constant improvement in relations between believers, on the basis of mutual respect and reciprocal trust.

 

[condan]

Matt25:

Of course, the building of peace presupposes mutual trust, in order to receive the other not as a threat but as a partner, and to accept in addition the constraints and measures for control implied by common commitments, such as treaties and multilateral agreements, in the different areas of international relations that affect the common good of humanity, including respect for the environment, the regulation of the arms trade and the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, the protection of children and the rights of minorities.

I don’t think even the Holy Father trusts those who support and aid terrorism, whether aimed at Americans or at our Jewish brethren. That fairly well precludes us from treaties and multilateral agreements.
Matt 25:

As I have so often recalled, the Cath-olic faithful, for their part, seek in all circumstances to witness to their pro-life approach that respects the human being from conception to one’s natural end and guarantees the defence of the person’s imperscriptible rights and duties.

Flying airplanes into buildings, strapping bombs onto ones own children, blowing up pizza parlors and passenger busses, gunning down families in cold blood and kidnapping and beheading civilians precludes one from participatig in imperscriptible rights and duties. Further, this is not an example of the Holy Father speaking ex cathedra. I am dutiful to Jesus Christ through the successor to St. Peter on matters of faith and morals, with no exception. I look to there for divine guidance in all matters both natural and supernatural. However, when it comes to foreign policy, national security and national defense, I will go with the temporal authority AS I AM BOUND BY THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD TO DO, which in this case, is George W. Bush.

 

[Matt25]

condan:

Flying airplanes into buildings, strapping bombs onto ones own children, blowing up pizza parlors and passenger busses, gunning down families in cold blood and kidnapping and beheading civilians precludes one from participatig in imperscriptible rights and duties.

Were all Muslims in the world implicated in the September 2001 attacks? If it is right to hold all Muslims responsible for the acts of some is it also right to hold all American soldiers responsible for prisoner mistreatment in Abu Ghraib?

However, when it comes to foreign policy, national security and national defense, I will go with the temporal authority AS I AM BOUND BY THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD TO DO, which in this case, is George W. Bush.

Was it the duty of Iraqi Catholics to fight for Saddam against the Anglo-American Invaders? Is it the duty of Iranian Catholics to get involved in preparing themselves to repel the next act of US aggression? Did German Catholics have a duty to join the SS and the Gestapo 1933-1945?

 

[gilliam]

Why we fight: Israel, Palestinians to Declare Cease-Fire

 

[condan]

Matt25:

Were all Muslims in the world implicated in the September 2001 attacks? If it is right to hold all Muslims responsible for the acts of some is it also right to hold all American soldiers responsible for prisoner mistreatment in Abu Ghraib?

Was it the duty of Iraqi Catholics to fight for Saddam against the Anglo-American Invaders? Is it the duty of Iranian Catholics to get involved in preparing themselves to repel the next act of US aggression? Did German Catholics have a duty to join the SS and the Gestapo 1933-1945?

First, no one implicated ALL Muslims, just the facists who terrorize peaceloving citizens throughout the world. Unfortunately, there was a dearth of silence from Muslims world-wide in their reaction to the deeds of their fanatic brethren.

Second, common sense prevails in following the temporal authority. Since G.W. Bush is not YOUR temporal authority, I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[cestusdei]

Matt,
Ah so you supported Milosvic and his destruction of Muslims. Yet you object when we fight them? I suppose if someone attacked your family you would help them out rather then try and stop them? Oh and the Soviets began the war as ALLIES of Hitler. Remember Poland? Gosh you folks have such short memories. Stalin only fought when Hitler reneged on the non-aggression pact. He refused to believe Hitler had lied and let many of his troops die during the first part of the invasion. Then of course we had to counter Soviet influence in Europe till the wall came down. Please don’t hestitate to thank US for that too.

 

[Norwich]

gilliam:

There have obviously been debates but the general history of the Korean War is it was Stalin’s first attempt to move against the West and the West expected the next thing would be the tank divisions to come over on the plains of Europe. The truth of the matter is they did not go any futher into Western Europe because we were there to stop them… for 50 years.

Now I am listening to rubbish.

The Korean ar was of a totallly different nature. The lines of communication for that war stretched all the way across the Chinese sub continent. For the Russians it was a long distance war of liitle consequence, an itrritant. Any war in Europe was going to be fought almost on Home Turf, the reality is WE (and I mean WE including me personally) were there to try and stop them. WE knew damn well it was an impossible task. As I said the general concesus of opinion IN ALL QUARTERS was three days to the chanel. Take your rose coulored glasses off, America and Europe still exist because a German invented rockets and a Jew invented the Atom bomb and if Hitler had not been able to start the second world war they would still be in Germany and America would still be a minor colonial power.

 

[Matt25]

condan:

First, no one implicated ALL Muslims, just the facists who terrorize peaceloving citizens throughout the world. Unfortunately, there was a dearth of silence from Muslims world-wide in their reaction to the deeds of their fanatic brethren.

unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, Pakistan; Muti Rahman Nizami, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh, Bangladesh; Shaykh Ahmad Yassin, Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Palestine; Rashid Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia; Fazil Nour, President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia; and 40 other Muslim scholars and politicians:
“The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States which resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam which forbid all forms of attacks on innocents. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur’an: ‘No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another’ (Surah al-Isra 17:15).”
MSANews, September 14, 2001, msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/200109/20010917.15.html;

%between%

Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, Qatar; Tariq Bishri, Egypt; Muhammad S. Awwa, Egypt; Fahmi Huwaydi, Egypt; Haytham Khayyat, Syria; Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, U.S.:
“All Muslims ought to be united against all those who terrorize the innocents, and those who permit the killing of non-combatants without a justifiable reason. Islam has declared the spilling of blood and the destruction of property as absolute prohibitions until the Day of Judgment. … [It is] necessary to apprehend the true perpetrators of these crimes, as well as those who aid and abet them through incitement, financing or other support. **They must be brought to justice in an impartial court of law and [punished] appropriately. … [It is] a duty of Muslims to participate in this effort with all possible means.” **
Statement of September 27, 2001. The Washington Post, October 11, 2001, washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40545-2001Oct10.html

Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, imam of al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt:
“Attacking innocent people is not courageous, it is stupid and will be punished on the day of judgement. … It’s not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom, it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack.”
Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001

Muslim Brotherhood, an opposition Islamist group in Egypt, said it was “horrified” by the attack and expressed “condolences and sadness”:
“[We] strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. … [We] condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world.”
ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/551/fo2.htm

%between%

Ayatollah Ali Khamene’i, supreme jurist-ruler of Iran:
“Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons, including atomic bombs, long-range missiles, biological or chemical weopons, passenger or war planes, carried out by any organization, country or individuals is condemned. … It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington.”
Islamic Republic News Agency, September 16, 2001, irna.com/en/hphoto/010916000000.ehp.shtml

President Muhammad Khatami of Iran:
“[T]he September 11 terrorist blasts in America can only be the job of a group that have voluntarily severed their own ears and tongues, so that the only language with which they could communicate would be destroying and spreading death.”
Address to the United Nations General Assembly, November 9, 2001, president.ir/cronicnews/1380/8008/800818/800818.htm#b3

 

[Matt25]

condan:

Unfortunately, there was a dearth of silence from Muslims world-wide in their reaction to the deeds of their fanatic brethren.

islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article18.shtml

DUBAI, Sept 12 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - The Muslim world expressed condemnation Wednesday towards the attacks that occurred Tuesday in the United States, news agencies reported.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) grouping 57 Muslim states condemned Wednesday the previous day’s attacks on the United States, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.

“We condemn these savage and criminal acts which are anathema to all human conventions and values and the monotheist religions, led by Islam,” OIC secretary general Abdel Wahad Belkaziz said in a statement.

Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi encouraged Muslims to donate blood to the victims of the attacks and said that helping the victims with blood and money is considered a charity.

** In a special interview with IslamOnline, al-Qaradawi said that any sane Muslim who abides by Islamic laws would have never caused the incident.** He added that acts of terrorism are a crime regardless of the nationality or religious backgrounds of the victims.

Qaradawi said that the U.S. bias towards Israel in the Palestinian conflict, while unjust, does not provide a basis for justification for terrorist attacks, adding that the battlefield is in fact in Palestine.

“If the United States uses double standards in its judgment, Islam refuses to do so. We do not hate the American people even if we disagree with the policies of their ruling government,” he said.

** Libyan leader Moamer Qadhafi condemned the “terrible” attacks and said his country was ready to send aid to the American people. **

“Different policies and the conflicts with America shouldn’t be a psychological obstacle to sending humanitarian aid to the American people and all people in America who were profoundly affected by these terrible attacks,” Qadhafi said, suggesting blood donor offerings.

** Iranian President Mohammad Khatami condemned what he said was the wave of “terrorist” attacks and expressed his “deep sorrow and sympathy with the American nation.”**

In Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak Tuesday condemned the “attacks” and “terrorism” that struck the United States and said he was “very sad” after hearing the news.

An official source in Syria said, “Damascus condemns the destructive sabotage attacks which targeted innocent civilians in the United States, which caused serious damage to property and essential installations.”

Jordan added a similar condemnation: “The Jordanian government and its people express their feelings of sorrow and present their sincerest condolences to the American people, their government, President [George W.] Bush and the families of the innocent victims of terrorist attacks that violate all religious and humanitarian values.”

And the Gulf States added similar reactions.

“Saudi Arabia condemns the regrettable and inhumane explosions and attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon,” a Saudi official said.

The Kuwaiti cabinet said in a statement: “Kuwait, which rejects all forms of terrorism, condemns these terrorist acts and expresses its deep sympathy to the people of the United States.” Kuwait put several army, navy and air force units on a heightened state of alert.

In Doha, Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassem al-Thani condemned “the terrorist attacks and their serious consequences for global security.”

In Abu Dhabi, Emirati Information Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan “strongly condemned these savage attacks,” adding that “such horrible criminal acts need an extensive international campaign to eradicate all forms of terrorism.”

Oman’s foreign ministry said the sultanate “showed total solidarity with the United States over these terrorist acts, whose perpetrators will absolutely be punished.”

And a Yemeni government spokesman said in a statement that, “Yemen strongly denounces these terrorist acts and renews its condemnation of terrorism, which threatens security and stability in the world.”

Palestinian President Yasser Arafat “completely” condemned what he said was “the apparent terrorist attacks in the United States.”

 

[Matt25]

condan:

Unfortunately, there was a dearth of silence from Muslims world-wide in their reaction to the deeds of their fanatic brethren.

groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

Expressions of grief and sympathy in the Arab and Muslim world:

              For many of us, one of the most         disturbing images of these past painful weeks has been         that of the celebration of a few Palestinian youths after         the tragedy. 
     This image has been played over and over again on CNN,         thus reinforcing the myth that somehow the whole of the         Arab and Muslim world rejoices at our pain.Closer         examination has revealed that that celebration was in         fact a very limited phenomenon, limited to a few         Palestinian villages. Almost every single head of state         in the Muslim world has expressed grief and outrage over         this tragedy, fully expressing sympathy with the         Americans who have lost loved ones in this tragedy. 

     We believe that it is important that these images,         these words, also receive national attention. 

                        The picture to the right is a poignant         image of two Palestinian women mourning the loss of life         in the tragedies of September 11th.- The terrorist act was strongly         condemned by every single         Palestinian organization including Fatah, the Democratic         Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front         for the Liberation of Palestine, Hamas, Workers Unions and Committees, Human         Right organizations (AlHaq,         Law, Palestine Center for Human Rights), student associations,         municipalities, mosques and         churches, etc. 

     - The US Consul General in         Jerusalem reported that he         has received a huge stack of faxes from Palestinians and Palestinian         organizations expressing condolences,         grief and solidarity. He himself was pained to see that the media chose to         focus on the sensational         images of a few Palestinians rejoicing. 

     - The Palestine Legislative         Council condemned the terrorist         attack on the United States and sent an urgent letter of condolences to Mr. J         Dennis Hasterd, Speaker of         the House of Representatives. 

     - Palestinians in East Jerusalem         held a candle-light vigils         on 12 and 14 September to express their grief and solidarity with the         American families struck by         this tragedy. Mr. Abdel Qader Al-Husseini, son of the late Palestinian         leader Faisal Al-Husseini         led one of the vigils. 

     - Jerusalem University students,         along with the President of         the University and the Deans of the various Faculties, began a blood donation         drive in East Jerusalem.         Students and professors went to         hospitals in order to donate blood         for the American victims who need it. 

     - The 1 million Palestinian         students in the Palestinian Territory, including East         Jerusalem, stood five minutes in         silence to express their         solidarity with the hundreds of American children who have been struck by this         strategy, which resembles in         its shocking effects their daily sufferings. (see image to the         right)
     
     -In Iran, Tehran's main soccer stadium observed an         unprecedented minute's silence in sympathy with the         victims. 
     
     -Iran's Ayatollah Imami Kashani spoke of a catastrophic         act of terrorism which could only be condemned by all         Muslims, adding the whole world should mobilise against         terrorism. 

              http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/palestinianmourning.jpg

                        http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/palestinemomentsilence.jpg

 

[Matt25]

cestusdei:

Matt,. Stalin only fought when Hitler reneged on the non-aggression pact. He refused to believe Hitler had lied and let many of his troops die during the first part of the invasion.

The Soviet Union was nonetheless an Ally of the US/UK

shsu.edu/~his_ncp/LendL.html

Received on February 13, 1942

F. ROOSEVELT TO J. V. STALIN

I am much pleased that your Government has expressed its willingness to receive my old and trusted friend, Admiral Standley, as the Ambassador of the United States. He and I have been e closely associated for many years, and **I have complete confidence in him. I recommend him to you not only as a man of integrity and energy but also as one who is appreciative of and an admirer of the accomplishments of the Soviet Union, **which, you will recall, he visited last year with Mr. Harriman. Admiral Standley has since his return from Moscow already done much to further understanding in the United States of the situation in the Soviet Union and with his rich background and his knowledge of the problems which are facing our respective countries I am sure that with your cooperation his efforts to bring them still more close together will meet with success.

HIS EXCELLENCY JOSEPH STALIN,

PRESIDENT OF THE SOVIET OF PEOPLE’S COMMISSARS OF THE U.S.S.R.

My dear Mr. Stalin.

Mr. Harriman has handed me your kind note dated October 3, 1941.9 I appreciate very much hearing from you.

A cable has already gone to you advising you that we can include the Soviet Union under our Lend-Lease arrangements

I want to take this opportunity to assure you again that we are going to bend every possible effort to move these supplies to your battle lines.

The determination of your armies and people to defeat Hitlerism is an inspiration to the free people of all the world.

Very sincerely yours,

Frankllin D. ROOSEVELT

ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1942/421110a.html

HIS MAJESTY, KING GEORGE VI SPEECH TO PARLIAMENT London, November 10, 1942

I share to the full the admiration of My people for the glorious feats of arms of the Soviet forces. In the defence of Stalingrad, which has been a hard blow struck at our enemies, a new chapter of heroism has been written in the annals of war. My Government and My people are determined to do their utmost to assist our Russian Allies, both by the supply of materials of war and by offensive action against the common foe.

On the 26th May I concluded with the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics a new Treaty of Alliance in the war against Hitlerite Germany and he associates in Europe. This Treaty also provides for post-war collaboration with the Soviet Union and for mutual assistance against aggressors.

 

[Richardols]

condan:

Maybe you should consider relocating. You would probably be much happier living in an Islamic state rather than in a democracy.

Typical right-wing reactionary response. If you’re not willing to drop to your knees and worship George Bush and agree with what he’s done, you should leave the country.

All free men have a right to criticize their country’s policies and even those of others without the fear of having to be disenfranchised or forced to leave the country. Or hasn’t the right-wing heard of the 1st Amendment - freedom of speech? My error - of course they’ve heard of it, they just want to stifle it.

 

[cestusdei]

Yep, liberal democrats loved Stalin. FDR sold out eastern europe to him. I can see simularities between him and modern pro-terrorism liberals. But none of that refutes what I said. Without the US you would have lost the war.

Btw, I remember the Muslims dancing in the streets with joy at 911. Sure “officially” they were scared and tried damage control, but they couldn’t reign in their glee. I remember even if you don’t.

 

[Richardols]

cestusdei:

Without the US you would have lost the war.

And without the Soviet Union, the Allies, including the U.S. would have lost the war.

And how well would the US have done without Great Britain? Without the UK and its bases, the US would have had to fight the war from North Africa. And without Polish/British cryptography, the US would not have had access to German codes, and may have well lost the war through a lack of intelligence information.

 

[Norwich]

cestusdei:

Yep, liberal democrats loved Stalin. FDR sold out eastern europe to him. I can see simularities between him and modern pro-terrorism liberals. But none of that refutes what I said. Without the US you would have lost the war.

Btw, I remember the Muslims dancing in the streets with joy at 911. Sure “officially” they were scared and tried damage control, but they couldn’t reign in their glee. I remember even if you don’t.

Interesting comments from a priest. Extreme right wing views; overriding US biase; scarcely hidden anti moslem sentiments; cynical disregard for the teachings of the Vatican; selective memory, Hmmm… I wonder, I wonder… are we wearing the wrong collar?

 

[cestusdei]

Interesting that this comments come from where? Europe. When I was in England last year I noticed fanatics in Hyde Park who vowed to make the UK into a Muslim theocracy. Some Brits even expressed private fears about this. They didn’t dare say it publically. Wonder why? I get along much better with Muslims in the US. In fact I do fine with them. They know that kind of thing will get them “attention” if they do it here. But please, tell me FDR didn’t screw up at Yalta? Sure we used Stalin during WWII. Not much choice since Hitler was the lesser of the two evils. And no one here can deny that Stalin started the war as Hitlers ally. Ask the Poles. Oh and note the Poles support the US. Some people do have the ability to remember.

 

[Richardols]

cestusdei:

Sure we used Stalin during WWII.

And he us.

Ask the Poles. Oh and note the Poles support the US. Some people do have the ability to remember.

Well, I’m a Polish-American with relatives in Poland, and just because their government is willing to kiss up to Bush in the hope of some reconstruction contracts doesn’t mean that the Pole in the street is in favor of the war. And the majority are opposed to the war. Don’t take my word for it. Check it out. Just as in the UK where Blair wants ever so much to be in bed with George, the vast majority of the population is against the war in Iraq.

 

[cestusdei]

Yes, the spirit of Chamberlain lives on. Peace in our time indeed.

 

[condan]

Richardols:

Typical right-wing reactionary response. If you’re not willing to drop to your knees and worship George Bush and agree with what he’s done, you should leave the country.

All free men have a right to criticize their country’s policies and even those of others without the fear of having to be disenfranchised or forced to leave the country. Or hasn’t the right-wing heard of the 1st Amendment - freedom of speech? My error - of course they’ve heard of it, they just want to stifle it.

The poster to whom I was responding lives in Scotland so I wouldn’t expect him to “drop to his knees and worship George Bush”. However, he does express a preference and predisposition to supporting Islam, an odd reaction in light of events in Spain, New York City, Israel, Bali, etc., etc.

No one who disagrees with the administration of any U.S. president is “disenfranchised”. That word is overused by those who can’t even fathom its meaning. In fact, those who disagree with the current president are given far more face-time than they actually deserve, considering that they represent a minority of the population. Its becoming quite tiresome to hear the left cry “disenfranchisement” every time they don’t get their way or when their arguments don’t hold water. Maybe Mr. Dean will add some creative writing into the daily e-mail to make it easier for all the poor disenfranchisedminions to carry the water for the looney left.