Why?

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I know this is what answering-christianity says - i.e. that the 4 days overlaps the 2 days of earth creation, but it is still possible to read that the Quran is inconsistent.

41:9 Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena
Say: "Do you disbelieve (E) with who created the earth/Planet Earth in two days, and you make/put for Him equals (idols), that (is) the creations all together’s/(universes’) Lord.

41:10 WajaAAala feeha rawasiya min fawqiha wabaraka feeha waqaddara feeha aqwataha fee arbaAAati ayyamin sawaan lilssa-ileena
And He made/put in it anchors/fixtures/mountains from above it, and He blessed in it, and He predestined/evaluated in it its provision in four days, straight/equal to the askers/questioners .

==> so we have the earth created in 2 days AND he put mountains above it, blessed it and gave it provision in 4 days.

Thus, it is more likely that that 4 days is cumulative, not overlapping, the initial 2 days.

The events of the second verse occurs after the events of the first.

The four days period is only concerned about mountain building, blessing, and provisioning. It is clearly AFTER the earth was created.

 

[inJESUS]

You are putting energy to reconcile what seem to be contradictions in your book and the author is one. You’ve got to put a bit more effort when it comes to events written by many

I got a question :
How many angels visited Mary to tell her about her pregnancy?

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah gives thee glad tidings ect 3:42

Then we sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before he as a man in all respects. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah)
ecc 19:17-18

 

[Khalfan]

I don’t reject ANY version of the Bible. I used the KJV and made that comment about the difference in order to make a point, the point being that the “differences” you are worried about are not really differences.

Here’s another example. A few years ago I noticed that one translation of Psalm 139:14 read “I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made…”

Another read: ““I will praise thee for thou art fearful and wonderful”” (that is my paraphrase, I do not have that Bible in front of me just now, but my paraphrase is very close). On surface, the two verses seem very different. But in reality they are not. A fearful and wonderful being does fearful and wonderful things. He made a man, and being fearful and wonderful, it follows that the man is fearfully and wonderfully made.

You should apply this same idea to the verses with which you are having problems. They seem different on the surface, but perhaps you aren’t reading closely, or taking full context into consideration. When we read carefully, and in full context, most of the apparent contradictions evaporate, and the few that remain are usually dealt with by more depth in study of history, linguistics, etc.

There are two reasons now for that, you must answer the question.

First, you don’t reject the Douay-Rheims version of Bible. In that Bible I have the problem in Mark and Matthew. You must answer it unles you reject this version of Bible.

Second, you know the logic to use to answer such questions. Why don’t apply the same logic and answer my question, the difference in Mark and Matthew? You must answer.

The question once again.

Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matthew

An official asked him this question, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. Luke

What was the actual question (both are bolded) that asked and what was the actual answer that given (both are bolded)?

There is another problem in Matthew. Jesus (pbuh) was talking many times about to have eternal life and the deeds that people must do to have it. Now here in this event too, a man is asking to know the same, what he must do to have eternal life. But in answer, Jesus (pbuh) asking a very strange question back, “Why do you ask me about the good?”. Then who this man was supposed to ask this question if it is not Jesus (pbuh)? Lets say, Jesus (pbuh) just wanted to know intention behind the question. Fine, did that man reply something for that question of Jesus (pbuh)? NO. Instead, Jesus (pbuh) answered a totally irrelevent question that, “There is only One who is good” and continued answering to ‘keep the commandmends’ which is the actual answer for the question of that man.

 

[inJESUS]

Am i the only one who can’t understand what the ahmadi guy is talking about?

 

[inJESUS]

The Qur’an speaks in various passages about the people of Aad, and about their destruction by terrible tornado as punishment from Allah for their disobedience.

The Qur’an, however, contradicts itself in the number of days this wind endured.

Lo! We let loose on them a raging wind on a day of constant calamity, [54:19]
Therefor We let loose on them a raging wind in evil days, that We might make them taste the torment of disgrace in the life of the world. And verily the doom of the Hereafter will be more shameful, and they will not be helped. [41:16]

And as for A’ad, they were destroyed by a fierce roaring wind, Which He imposed on them for seven long nights and eight long days so that thou mightest have seen men lying overthrown, as they were hollow trunks of palm-trees. [69:6-7]

According to Sura 54:19, the wind continued for a single day, while 41:16 uses the plural form indicating at least three days, and 69:7 specifies exactly eight days

This is a quote taken from answering-islam. We can continue like this till dawn.

People, can’t you discuss deep things? are all your discussions on this level? is this the best your theology can give:coffeeread:

 

[Khalfan]

I know this is what answering-christianity says - i.e. that the 4 days overlaps the 2 days of earth creation, but it is still possible to read that the Quran is inconsistent.

41:9 Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena
Say: "Do you disbelieve (E) with who created the earth/Planet Earth in two days, and you make/put for Him equals (idols), that (is) the creations all together’s/(universes’) Lord.

41:10 WajaAAala feeha rawasiya min fawqiha wabaraka feeha waqaddara feeha aqwataha fee arbaAAati ayyamin sawaan lilssa-ileena
And He made/put in it anchors/fixtures/mountains from above it, and He blessed in it, and He predestined/evaluated in it its provision in four days, straight/equal to the askers/questioners .

==> so we have the earth created in 2 days AND he put mountains above it, blessed it and gave it provision in 4 days.

Thus, it is more likely that that 4 days is cumulative, not overlapping, the initial 2 days.

The events of the second verse occurs after the events of the first.

The four days period is only concerned about mountain building, blessing, and provisioning. It is clearly AFTER the earth was created.

No. It seems inconsistent for you becasue, your interest is to disprove Quran for that you find some ‘problems’ in it and we all know when we want problems, we don’t have to go far, we find right in the corner.

Earth created. AND he fixed all things in it, in total 4 days. To create the earth itself might have took 2 days which is said in the first verse.

 

[inJESUS]

No. It seems inconsistent for you becasue, your interest is to disprove Quran for that you find some ‘problems’ in it and we all know when we want problems, we don’t have to go far, we find right in the corner.

Earth created. AND he fixed all things in it, in total 4 days. To create the earth itself might have took 2 days which is said in the first verse.

so Rodrigo wants to find “problems” and he will surely find many in a book written by supposedly one person; and you find it strange that a book written by many and to different audiance can have “problems”? the same way you reconcile a book written by one author in “clear” arabic supposed to “explain” things for people, you’ll have to reconcile any other book written by different people IF and only if you want to understand what could have happened or what was meant. Double standards are always easy to see.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Khalfan, dear Khalfan.

Please desist from sophistry. The reading of the quran is plain.

41:9 - the earth was created in 2 days.

41:10 AND the mountains, blessing and provisions were made in 4 days.

41:10 does not say that the earth, mountains, blessing, provisions were made in 4 days.

It only says, mountains, blessing, provisions were made in 4 days.

The word “AND” at the beginning of the verse is a clear indication that it is not an overlapping period but a sequential event.

The problem for Islamic apologists is that they misrepresent the verse - claiming erroneously that the 4 days is an overlap of the 2 days.

But reading the verse shows that it isn’t true. The 4 days is AFTER the 2 days, because of the word “AND”.

 

[Zooey]

As always in Christianity, the children have to suffer becasue of their parents, right?

Second thing, Jesus (pbuh) asked to follow the commandmends and to keep the law. He didn’t come to REPLACE any law but to fulfill.

Anyway thanks for the answer.

http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gifWhat part of “it’s not a punishment for the child, it’s a discipline to be practiced by the parents” is not clear to you???
What part of “ancient Jewish law does not equal the law of Christ” is not clear to you??

See, I think you are creating the “difficulties” you have. (Anything to keep from admitting that you are like the rest of us, and need the one & only Saviour…Sad. Very, very sad, to see how blind people can be, to Him).

 

[Booklover]

Vickie, please… it is my humble request to check the questions, specially when you quote from anti-Islamic sites. Make sure if it is a genuine. Such as the above question, it doesn’t make any sense at all if you read it carefully.

Dear Khalfan, and you get your info from anti-christianity sites, so what’s the difference!

We know, the total days it took is 6.

Diduct the 2 days that took to create the heaven, 6 - 2 = 4

In that 4 days, 2 was to create earth and two was to fix things in it like mountains and all, altogether 4 days to complete earth.

Now, if you can quote the other contradictions too, I will be more than happy to answer you. But please… please… please…
Make sure your question make sense.

Since you quoted Quran, it says one more thing that you won’t agree with.

“We created the Heavens and Earth and that which is between them in six days and no fatigue touched us” (50:38)

God doesn’t get tired. He didn’t REST after creating heaven and earth.

Let me ask you another logical question regrding the same creation of earth and heaven.

Bible says, the sun was created on the third day (Genesis 1:13-18), how possibly the first 2 days and nights came into existence without the sun? May be God was the source of the light for the first two days; but the earth doesn’t move/rotate (1 Chr 16:30, Psalms 93:1, 96:10), how the day and night, morning and evening happened? In the below verse, it clrearly says, it is not the earth but the sun runs around the earth.

‘The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises’. -Ecclesiastes 1:5.

Did you read the other discrepancies in the Quran mentioned in the link I posted?

You’re always trying to find fault with the Bible because all you want to do is try to refute everything we believe. No matter what anybody says, you’re not going to be satisfied.

Then the minute that we bring up discrepancies in the Quran, you cry foul! That is double standards.

By the way, in another post where I mentioned that the Quran states that the earth is flat, you asked for the references. Finally found them.
*015.019 *
YUSUFALI: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
PICKTHAL: And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein.
SHAKIR: And the earth-- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing.

And,
*078.006 *
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
PICKTHAL: Have We not made the earth an expanse,
SHAKIR: Have We not made the earth an even expanse?
*078.007 *
YUSUFALI: And the mountains as pegs?
PICKTHAL: And the high hills bulwarks?
SHAKIR: And the mountains as projections (thereon)?

Vickie

 

[Khalfan]

Booklover:
You didn’t answer my question.

Bible says, the sun was created on the third day (Genesis 1:13-18), how possibly the first 2 days and nights came into existence without the sun? May be God was the source of the light for the first two days; but the earth doesn’t move/rotate (1 Chr 16:30, Psalms 93:1, 96:10), how the day and night, morning and evening happened? In the below verse, it clrearly says, it is not the earth but the sun runs around the earth.

‘The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises’. -Ecclesiastes 1:5.

Dear Khalfan, and you get your info from anti-christianity sites, so what’s the difference!

Did you read the other discrepancies in the Quran mentioned in the link I posted?

You’re always trying to find fault with the Bible because all you want to do is try to refute everything we believe. No matter what anybody says, you’re not going to be satisfied.

Then the minute that we bring up discrepancies in the Quran, you cry foul! That is double standards.

I just want you to make sure if it is a genuine question. Becasue you again quoted a nonsense problem below.

By the way, in another post where I mentioned that the Quran states that the earth is flat, you asked for the references. Finally found them.
*015.019 *
YUSUFALI: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
PICKTHAL: And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein.
SHAKIR: And the earth-- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing.

And,
*078.006 *
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
PICKTHAL: Have We not made the earth an expanse,
SHAKIR: Have We not made the earth an even expanse?
*078.007 *
YUSUFALI: And the mountains as pegs?
PICKTHAL: And the high hills bulwarks?
SHAKIR: And the mountains as projections (thereon)?

Vickie

The question refers to a verse from the Quran in Surah Nuh:

“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).” [Al-Quran 71:19]

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: “That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.” [Al-Quran 71:20]

A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)…” [Al-Quran 20:53]

The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.

Continued.

 

[Khalfan]

Continued.

Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

Similarly, the Quran says in several verses that the earth has been spread out. “And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!” [Al-Quran 51:48]

Similarly the Quran also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse: “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Quran 78:6-7]

None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Quran says: “O My servants who believe! Truly spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me . (And Me alone)!” [Al-Quran 29:56]

Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.

The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: “And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [Al-Quran 79:30]

The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

Thus the Quran and modern established science are in perfect harmony.

 

[Khalfan]

Khalfan, dear Khalfan.

Please desist from sophistry. The reading of the quran is plain.

41:9 - the earth was created in 2 days.

41:10 AND the mountains, blessing and provisions were made in 4 days.

41:10 does not say that the earth, mountains, blessing, provisions were made in 4 days.

It only says, mountains, blessing, provisions were made in 4 days.

The word “AND” at the beginning of the verse is a clear indication that it is not an overlapping period but a sequential event.

The problem for Islamic apologists is that they misrepresent the verse - claiming erroneously that the 4 days is an overlap of the 2 days.

But reading the verse shows that it isn’t true. The 4 days is AFTER the 2 days, because of the word “AND”.

I will agree that if you agree, everything in the Bible has to be taken LITERALLY, not figurativly or in any metaphorical sense. It has to be taken LITERALLY without thinking of the right intention of the auther.

 

[Khalfan]

so Rodrigo wants to find “problems” and he will surely find many in a book written by supposedly one person; and you find it strange that a book written by many and to different audiance can have “problems”? the same way you reconcile a book written by one author in “clear” arabic supposed to “explain” things for people, you’ll have to reconcile any other book written by different people IF and only if you want to understand what could have happened or what was meant. Double standards are always easy to see.

What is problem in assuring the question is genuine?

 

[Khalfan]

You are putting energy to reconcile what seem to be contradictions in your book and the author is one. You’ve got to put a bit more effort when it comes to events written by many

I got a question :
How many angels visited Mary to tell her about her pregnancy?

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah gives thee glad tidings ect 3:42

Then we sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before he as a man in all respects. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah)
ecc 19:17-18

Naturally, Mary (ra) bore Jesus (pbuh) 9 months or more. During that period, angels were visiting her many times. Sometimes one and sometimes more than one.

 

[Booklover]

You didn’t answer my question.

Bible says, the sun was created on the third day (Genesis 1:13-18), how possibly the first 2 days and nights came into existence without the sun? May be God was the source of the light for the first two days; but the earth doesn’t move/rotate (1 Chr 16:30, Psalms 93:1, 96:10), how the day and night, morning and evening happened? In the below verse, it clrearly says, it is not the earth but the sun runs around the earth.

‘The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises’. -Ecclesiastes 1:5.

I just want you to make sure if it is a genuine question. Becasue you again quoted a nonsense problem below.

The question refers to a verse from the Quran in Surah Nuh:

“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).” [Al-Quran 71:19]

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: “That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.” [Al-Quran 71:20]

A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)…” [Al-Quran 20:53]

The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.

Continued.

It isn’t a nonsense question! You had told me to provide the verses in the Quran about the earth being flat!

And how are carpets spread out?? Flat!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Naturally, Mary (ra) bore Jesus (pbuh) 9 months or more. During that period, angels were visiting her many times. Sometimes one and sometimes more than one.

How do you know this for sure??

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

You didn’t answer my question.

Bible says, the sun was created on the third day (Genesis 1:13-18), how possibly the first 2 days and nights came into existence without the sun? May be God was the source of the light for the first two days; but the earth doesn’t move/rotate (1 Chr 16:30, Psalms 93:1, 96:10), how the day and night, morning and evening happened? In the below verse, it clrearly says, it is not the earth but the sun runs around the earth.

‘The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises’. -Ecclesiastes 1:5.

I’ll let someone with more expertise answer this one. I’m not that good at research. By the way, I’m still waiting for a Muslim to answer why Allah stated in the Quran that the stars were created as missiles to throw at the jinns! I’ve asked this many times and have never got an answer either!

Vickie

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Khalfan,
If the meaning is figurative then I hope you will never claim there is science in the Quran. Because if you do you will have moved from figurative to literal. You can’t have it both ways - unless you have some sure way of telling figurative verses from literal verses - which you don’t.

By the way, the author of the Quran thinks the earth was a flat structure.

(Quran- 79:27-30): Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth.

 

[Khalfan]

Khalfan,
If the meaning is figurative then I hope you will never claim there is science in the Quran. Because if you do you will have moved from figurative to literal. You can’t have it both ways - unless you have some sure way of telling figurative verses from literal verses - which you don’t.

41:9 Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

Say: What! do you indeed disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two periods, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds.

41:10 WajaAAala feeha rawasiya min fawqiha wabaraka feeha waqaddara feeha aqwataha fee arbaAAati ayyamin sawaan lilssa-ileena

41:10 And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and made therein its foods, in four periods: alike for the seekers.

This is how the sentences should be, read and understood. In 41:9, God asking a question to those who set up equals with God, with mentioning a sign God, the creation of earth which was done in two days (‘Yawm’ can also be translated for certain periods than just 24 hour day. Here, only God knows the length of the day/period). Then in 41:10 God adds something more he done for us. Then God gives the period it took for the seekers (those who set up equals with God and all disbelievers of God). Does this 4 days contain the previous mentioned 2 days or not is a possibility of 50/50 chance since it is not clearly mentioned in the verse. You consider the negetive part that it cannot be contained and we consider the positive part of it, that the 4 days contains the 2 that mentioned before it. Why we do that is because, in few other places, God clearly mentioned the total days it took was 6. If the intention of the author is taken into consideration, it is clear that the 4 contains the 2 mentioned before it.

I can give you another example of the same situation. Like it is in Bible, in Quran too God have mentioned himself as ‘US’, but we don’t believe in 2,3 or more Gods. Becasue the nature of GOd is clearly mentioned in chapter 112 and there it is clearly said, God is ONE and ONLY.

By the way, the author of the Quran thinks the earth was a flat structure.

(Quran- 79:27-30): Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth.

It answered already in post 50 and 51.