Will America become socialist now that Biden has basically won?

[whatistrue]

I’m not sure if you would consider France a socialist country (honest question here, I don’t know what it looks like from the US).

To some, “socialist” simply means anything other than absolutely unrestricted capitalism, including mill towns and robber barons and dumping into rivers to the point that they sometimes catch fire and all else that goes with it. To some, it is simply anything paid for by taxes that they don’t think should be paid for by taxes. Very few in the mix actually understand what socialism really is.

 

[HarryStotle]

Socialism is when the government owns the means of production.

Not quite. Socialism is when the state controls sectors of the economy by controlling or regulating the means, the output, the markets, capital distribution or other aspects of the economy. It MAY mean state ownership but it doesn’t have to.

German Naziism didn’t own, on paper, the means of production but it so controlled it that it could confiscate what was owned at any time effectively “owning” it.

And look its right there in the name: Nazi is national socialism.

 

[Sarcelle]

It’s ironic because it was unrestricted capitalism, running on greed that brought about Marxism in the first place.

 

[Sarcelle]

Socialism is when the state controls sectors of the economy by controlling or regulating the means, the output, the markets, capital distribution or other aspects of the economy.

How about when corporations lobby the government to make regulations in their favor?

What about government bailing out large corporations?

This isn’t free capitalism, this is crony capitalism and this is what the US has, no matter who is in power, Democrats or Republicans.

 

[Genesis315]

Nah. For better or worse, Biden and Harris both seem more interested in the neo-liberal global economic imperium than seizing or developing any kind of state-run industries. There’s a reason most of the big corporations, the private media, and especially the tech giants side with them and the movements supporting them (even BLM, which is led-by-self-identified-Marxists, frames things more in terms of race or sexual identities instead of economic class like a real socialist would, which is much more preferable to the corporate oligarchy).

I hope the Republicans can continue moving toward an economic approach closer to Catholic social teaching which places the family, working class/labor, and the common good of both local communities and the whole at the center and end of economic activity–that combined with more conservative social positions (also favoring the family), I think could be a real winner. It’s basically what the Dems used to be when almost every Catholic was a Dem. There’s a reason the Dems lost the Catholic vote worse than in decades this time around, despite the Dems having a Catholic candidate. Trump shook up the party enough–and drove the right people to the Dems (neoliberal global capitalists, foreverwar-spread liberalism everywhere types)–where some leaders really embracing this kind of thing could emerge --we’ll see if the realignment can continue in the right direction.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Socialism is when the state controls sectors of the economy by controlling or regulating the means, the output, the markets, capital distribution or other aspects of the economy.

How about when corporations lobby the government to make regulations in their favor?

What about government bailing out large corporations?

This isn’t free capitalism, this is crony capitalism and this is what the US has, no matter who is in power, Democrats or Republicans.

You are claiming the US economy is completely dominated by crony capitalism where large corporate interests dictate policy? And yet you voted(?) for the party (Democrat) that is disproportionately funded by large corporate interests?

In this case you also have large tech corporations actively censoring information to get a particular party elected and have stated so explicitly. Nothing crony about that, I suppose. Still merits votes?

So the crony capitalism critique you are submitting is merely a philosophical one since the reality of how it operates doesn’t impact your voting?

Large corporations were for National Socialism last century because they were offered protections. Same old same old.

 

[Sarcelle]

And yet you voted(?) for the party (Democrat) that is disproportionately funded by large corporate interests?

Why do you assume that I voted for the Democrats? Seriously, why?

I didn’t vote Democrat by the way.

If you had read my post carefully, notice that I blame both parties.

 

[StudentMI]

Why do you assume that I voted for the Democrats? Seriously, why?

Unfortunately in today’s America there is no nuance left. If one criticizes Biden you’re a Trump fan.if you criticize Trump you’re a Marxist. That’s the level of discourse.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

And yet you voted(?) for the party (Democrat) that is disproportionately funded by large corporate interests?

Why do you assume that I voted for the Democrats? Seriously, why?

I didn’t vote Democrat by the way.

If you had read my post carefully, notice that I blame both parties.

And you should have noticed the (?) beside the word “voted” indicating that I didn’t assume that you did, but that if you did that would show a contradiction in your thesis regarding cronyism.

Speaking of assuming stuff…

 

[Sarcelle]

So what did I assume?

By the way here is a piece on front capitalism and before you say this is a Marxist article, read it carefully. This is from a non-partisan source.

Don’t confuse the free market with crony capitalism | The Hill

 

[phil19034]

We have to pray for Joe Biden and that he has the strength to stand up to the far left.

We also have to pray that Kamala doesn’t invoke the 25th Amendment to get rid of Biden.

 

[phil19034]

I highly recommend this Homily from this Sunday. The priest celebrates the Extraordinary Form, but homily is AWESOME and spot on!

 

[openmind77]

Kamala Harris is the one who concerns me, not Biden. She’s farther left than Bernie Sanders. And she is very hostile to religious liberty. Will America become socialist under the Biden Harris administration? What do you think?

What makes you think that Harris is further to the left than Bernie Sanders? In fact, she was a pretty tough prosecutor and a moderate on other issues.

 

[HarryStotle]

Sarcelle:

Why do you assume that I voted for the Democrats? Seriously, why?

Unfortunately in today’s America there is no nuance left. If one criticizes Biden you’re a Trump fan.if you criticize Trump you’re a Marxist. That’s the level of discourse.

Welcome to that “level of discourse” that you decry but seem to have purchased at a discount.

As I pointed out in my last post I wasn’t assuming anything as indicated by my (?).

Apparently you completely missed that little textual symbol of nuance in your unbridled haste to condemn the lack of nuance in discourse.

My point was - since it is being completely sidestepped in the rush to find fault somewhere - if someone (anyone) is going to condemn crony capitalism then they need to explain why the cronyist of capitalists support the Democrat party at the moment.

Care to take a shot at that point, or just to soliloquize on the universal lack of ability to read and interpret the nuance in discourse which doesn’t exist in any case?

 

[StudentMI]

Care to take a shot at that point, or just to soliloquize on the universal lack of ability to read and interpret the nuance in discourse which doesn’t exist in any case?

So the fact that I’ve been called a Marxist because I said you know capitalism has faults doesn’t count for anything? Or that I was accused of supporting Trump because I criticized Biden?

 

[Sarcelle]

if someone (anyone) is going to condemn crony capitalism then they need to explain why the cronyist of capitalists support the Democrat party at the moment.

Why would you bring in the Democrats when I made sure to mention both parties are guilty?

As mentioned in my post below

This isn’t free capitalism, this is crony capitalism and this is what the US has, no matter who is in power, Democrats or Republicans.

 

[HarryStotle]

So what did I assume?

By the way here is a piece on front capitalism and before you say this is a Marxist article, read it carefully. This is from a non-partisan source.

Don’t confuse the free market with crony capitalism | TheHill

Well, first, you assumed that I assumed you voted Democrat, which I didn’t…

Why do you assume that I voted for the Democrats?

And now you assume I will say the article is Marxist even before I have read it.

Sounds like you are psychologically trying to pre-empt a conclusion by forecasting. Kind of manipulative of you, no?

Are you certain a “non-partisan” source couldn’t or wouldn’t permit a Marxist opinion piece - I mean if they are indeed non-partisan why would they NOT permit a Marxist piece?

It appears that the meaning of non-partisan may have some nuance in it that escaped your analysis.

 

[Julie4]

Our freedoms are definitely something to worry about. I believe our religious freedoms are on the line now. Remember the influence that the U.S. Counsel of Bishops used to have? Now they, and other pro-morals groups – will be brushed aside. I’m afraid that the pendulum is swinging too far to the left.

 

[StudentMI]

Sounds like you are psychologically trying to pre-empt a conclusion by forecasting. Kind of manipulative of you, no?

As shown above you brought in Democrats because they said something about crony capitalism. It’s okay to just say, oops, my bad.

 

[Sarcelle]

Whatever.

So you think I’m manipulative.

Think what you want of me.

Did you read the article?

What do you think of it?

I particularly agree with this section.

The most effective regulator of corporate power and its excesses, the best guarantee of competitive markets with low entry barriers, is a genuine free-market system, established on the universally-applicable principles of individual rights and respect for contracts and private property.