Will anyone notice this Hate Crime

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vern humphrey:
There IS something we can do about it. They are martyrs, and we can organize a Cause to have them canonized.

What say you? Do we support the New Jersey Martyrs?
Yes, but we would probably have difficulty getting the Holy See to do it. Copts are not in union with the Holy Father. As I understand it, they are under Pope Shenouda, who traces his line back to Saint Mark. I don’t know all that much about it, whether they are in communion with the Orthodox. I don’t think that our Church recognizes the saints of other churches, after the various breaks in communion, at least not in the way that She recognizes Her own saints. The Holy Father did, a year or so ago, include Protestants and Orthodox martyrs in the martyrology. That may have been last year, come to think of it. May God give this family rest in the Blessedness of His Presence and may He convert the hearts of their killers…and bring them to justice.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Yes, but we would probably have difficulty getting the Holy See to do it. Copts are not in union with the Holy Father. As I understand it, they are under Pope Shenouda, who traces his line back to Saint Mark. I don’t know all that much about it, whether they are in communion with the Orthodox. I don’t think that our Church recognizes the saints of other churches, after the various breaks in communion, at least not in the way that She recognizes Her own saints. The Holy Father did, a year or so ago, include Protestants and Orthodox martyrs in the martyrology. That may have been last year, come to think of it. May God give this family rest in the Blessedness of His Presence and may He convert the hearts of their killers…and bring them to justice.
I recall stopping at a Catholic Church in London that had a list of “modern day saints” that included Martin Luther King. Now I realize that was someone’s pipe dream (so far as I know there isn’t even a Cause for Martin Luther King), but the Orthodox Churches are not totally outside the pale – an Orthodox Copt can take communion in a Catholic Church.

We won’t know if we don’t try.

Now, who here knows how to start a Cause?
 
Immediately after 9-11, we provided perimeter security and provided security assessments for state and federal agencies in Jersey City. We staged from an area not far from the Mosque where Sheik Omar Abdel Rachman provided spiritual and material support to those who planned the 1993 WTC bombings. I felt as if I was in a third world country and not in the United States.

The Jersey City police are swamped with the problems of crime in a big city and will not be able to devote the resources needed to this crime. hopefully, the hate crime religious nature of the crime will bring in state and federal investigative agencies. As for me, my tolerance is wearing thin. Perhaps a Crusade is in order. One only needs to look at the radical moslems who live in Patterson, NJ to see a clear and present threat to all religions.
 
vern humphrey:
I recall stopping at a Catholic Church in London that had a list of “modern day saints” that included Martin Luther King. Now I realize that was someone’s pipe dream (so far as I know there isn’t even a Cause for Martin Luther King), but the Orthodox Churches are not totally outside the pale – an Orthodox Copt can take communion in a Catholic Church.

We won’t know if we don’t try.

Now, who here knows how to start a Cause?
I think you mean the Anglican Westminster Abbey. It stopped being Catholic in the 16th Century when Henry the VIIIth expropriated it.

And its Twentieth Century Martyrs not Modern Saints. By the way it also includes the Martyred Oscar Romero.
 
Note for those living in the NY/NJ/CT area:

Local news stations will be giving heavy coverage to the funeral for the family that took place today.
 
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Matt25:
I think you mean the Anglican Westminster Abbey. It stopped being Catholic in the 16th Century when Henry the VIIIth expropriated it.

And its Twentieth Century Martyrs not Modern Saints. By the way it also includes the Martyred Oscar Romero.
I know the difference between a little side-street Catholic Church and Westminster Abbey.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

This was a little Catholic Church built in the days when Catholic Churches were not allowed to resemble Anglican churches. The list was typewritten and xeroxed – hardly the style of Westminster Abbey.
 
vern humphrey:
I recall stopping at a Catholic Church in London that had a list of “modern day saints” that included Martin Luther King. Now I realize that was someone’s pipe dream (so far as I know there isn’t even a Cause for Martin Luther King), but the Orthodox Churches are not totally outside the pale – an Orthodox Copt can take communion in a Catholic Church.

We won’t know if we don’t try.

Now, who here knows how to start a Cause?
Well, Vern, if you’re serious, I think you have to go to the bishop of the diocese where the potential saint lived. I didn’t know Copts could rec. from our Church! I’m glad, I love their crosses and their iconography.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Well, Vern, if you’re serious, I think you have to go to the bishop of the diocese where the potential saint lived. I didn’t know Copts could rec. from our Church! I’m glad, I love their crosses and their iconography.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Copts – I was confirmed in Alexandria, Egypt, lived there for two years, and sometimes attended Coptic Mass.

Check the flyleaf of your missal – on the ones our church buys, it lists who can take communion and includes all Orthodox, the Assryan Church of the East, and I think one other Church.
 
vern humphrey:
I have a soft spot in my heart for Copts – I was confirmed in Alexandria, Egypt, lived there for two years, and sometimes attended Coptic Mass.

Check the flyleaf of your missal – on the ones our church buys, it lists who can take communion and includes all Orthodox, the Assryan Church of the East, and I think one other Church.
D’uhhhh!!! Our missals say the same. Thanks, Vern, I feel like an idgit!
 
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Nichevo:
I. Perhaps a Crusade is in order.
Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

“Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, social justice and moral values.”

John Paul II, Message to the faithful of Islam at the end of the month of Ramadan, April 3, 1991
"To all Muslims throughout the world, I wish to express the readiness of the Catholic Church to work together with you and all the people of good will to aid the victims of the war and to build structures of a lasting peace not only in the Middle East, but everywhere. This cooperation in solidarity towards the most afflicted can form the concrete basis for a sincere, profound and constant dialogue between believing Catholics and believing Muslims, from which there can arise a strengthened mutual knowledge and trust, and the assurance that each one everywhere will be able to profess freely and authentically his or her own faith.

"Injustice, oppression, aggression, greed, failure to forgive, desire for revenge, and unwillingness to enter into dialogue and negotiate: these are merely some of the factors which lead people to depart from the way in which God desires us to live on this planet. We must all learn to recognize these elements in our own lives and societies, and find ways to overcome them. Only when individuals and groups undertake this education for peace can we build a fraternal and united world, freed from war and violence.

"I close my greeting to you with the words of one of my predecessors, Pope Gregory VII who in 1076 wrote to Al-Nasir, the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya, present day Algeria: ‘Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. You and we owe this charity to ourselves especially because we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and ruler of this world.’
Code:
"These words, written almost a thousand years ago, express my feelings to you today as you celebrate ‘*Id al-Fitr*, the Feast of the Breaking of the Fast. May the Most High God fill us with all His merciful love and peace."
usccb.org/comm/nationaltragedy/textsislam.htm
 
This story is available at: cathnews.com/news/208/124.php

**Vatican and Muslim leaders unite against racism **

Muslim and Vatican representatives have jointly rejected racism and called for the building of a world of justice and peace.

Their combined statement was published by the Vatican Press Office, as the result of a meeting of the Catholic Liaison Committee, held in Markfield, England, last month on “Religion and Racism: Towards a Culture of Dialogue.”

The objective of the committee, created in May 1998, is to promote dialogue between Christians and Muslims. It comprises representatives of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue and the Al-Azhar Permanent Committee for Dialogue with Monotheist Religions.

Cairo’s millennium-old Al-Azhar University is the most prestigious research and study centre of the Muslim world.

On this occasion, the Muslim delegation was headed by professor Kamel Al-Sharif, secretary-general of the International Islamic Council for Da’wah and Relief. Following the debates, the Catholic and Muslim leaders agreed on a number of conclusions, which they expressed in a five-point statement.

“We affirm that our religions both teach that Almighty God has created all people equal in dignity and, therefore, we reject every form of racism,” the statement begins. “The racist practices that exist today in many societies, and we accept our responsibility to endeavor to eliminate misconceptions and prejudices that in turn generate racial discrimination.”

LINKS
Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue
Al-Alazhar University

SOURCE
Zenit
 
Eternal life O Lord grant unto them ~ And may perpetual light shine on them ~ † ~ Amen
 
Pope John Paul II - Address at Omayyad Mosque of Damascus - 6 May 2001

Dear Muslim Friends, As-salámu ‘aláikum!
  1. I give heartfelt praise to Almighty God for the grace of this meeting. I am most grateful for your warm welcome, in the tradition of hospitality so cherished by the people of this region…Your land is dear to Christians: here our religion has known vital moments of its growth and doctrinal development, and here are found Christian communities which have lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim neighbours for many centuries.
  2. We are meeting close to what both Christians and Muslims regard as the tomb of John the Baptist, known as Yahya in the Muslim tradition…The fact that we are meeting in this renowned place of prayer reminds us that man is a spiritual being, called to acknowledge and respect the absolute priority of God in all things. Christians and Muslims agree that the encounter with God in prayer is the necessary nourishment of our souls, without which our hearts wither and our will no longer strives for good but succumbs to evil.
  3. Both Muslims and Christians prize their places of prayer, as oases where they meet the All Merciful God on the journey to eternal life, and where they meet their brothers and sisters in the bond of religion. When, on the occasion of weddings or funerals or other celebrations, Christians and Muslims remain in silent respect at the other’s prayer, they bear witness to what unites them, without disguising or denying the things that separate.
It is in mosques and churches that the Muslim and Christian communities shape their religious identity, and it is there that the young receive a significant part of their religious education. What sense of identity is instilled in young Christians and young Muslims in our churches and mosques? It is my ardent hope that Muslim and Christian religious leaders and teachers will present our two great religious communities as communities in respectful dialogue, never more as communities in conflict. It is crucial for the young to be taught the ways of respect and understanding, so that they will not be led to misuse religion itself to promote or justify hatred and violence. Violence destroys the image of the Creator in his creatures, and should never be considered as the fruit of religious conviction.
  1. I truly hope that our meeting today in the Umayyad Mosque will signal our determination to advance interreligious dialogue between the Catholic Church and Islam. This dialogue has gained momentum in recent decades; and today we can be grateful for the road we have travelled together so far…
It is important that Muslims and Christians continue to explore philosophical and theological questions together, in order to come to a more objective and comprehensive knowledge of each others’ religious beliefs. Better mutual understanding will surely lead, at the practical level, to a new way of presenting our two religions not in opposition, as has happened too often in the past, but in partnership for the good of the human family.

Interreligious dialogue is most effective when it springs from the experience of “living with each other” from day to day within the same community and culture. In Syria, Christians and Muslims have lived side by side for centuries, and a rich dialogue of life has gone on unceasingly. Every individual and every family knows moments of harmony, and other moments when dialogue has broken down. The positive experiences must strengthen our communities in the hope of peace; and the negative experiences should not be allowed to undermine that hope.** For all the times that Muslims and Christians have offended one another, we need to seek forgiveness from the Almighty and to offer each other forgiveness. Jesus teaches us that we must pardon others’ offences if God is to pardon us our sins (cf. Mt 6:14). **

As members of the one human family and as believers, we have obligations to the common good, to justice and to solidarity. Interreligious dialogue will lead to many forms of cooperation, especially in responding to the duty to care for the poor and the weak. These are the signs that our worship of God is genuine.
  1. As we make our way through life towards our heavenly destiny, Christians feel the company of Mary, the Mother of Jesus; and Islam too pays tribute to Mary and hails her as “chosen above the women of the world” (Quran, III:42). The Virgin of Nazareth, the Lady of Saydnâya, has taught us that God protects the humble and “scatters the proud in the imagination of their hearts” (Lk 1:51). May the hearts of Christians and Muslims turn to one another with feelings of brotherhood and friendship, so that the Almighty may bless us with the peace which heaven alone can give. To the One, Merciful God be praise and glory for ever. Amen. catholic-forum.com/saints/pope0264qr.htm
 
Matt25,

That is the best you can offer? You are not going to condem the crime? Why not?
 
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gilliam:
Matt25,

That is the best you can offer? You are not going to condem the crime? Why not?
Of course the murder is a hateful loathsome sinful act. What it is not is an excuse to launch a hate campaign against Muslims. Especially since no-one has been convicted of anything in connection with this.

Do you think the majority of Muslims would be less horrified by this dreadful thing than Catholics are?
 
It would if they were Muslim.

Gabriel Gale said:
From NRO:
**CHRISTIAN FAMILY MURDERED **[John Derbyshire]
An entire family of Egyptian Copts (i.e. Christians), who had fled Egypt because of the oppression of their faith by Muslims there, were horribly murdered in their Jersey City home. Mother, father, and two young daughters were all hacked to death. It turns out that:

—Nothing was stolen from the house.

—The husband was a fierce defender of his religion in online chat rooms, and drew some angry hostility from Muslims, including death threats.

—The older daughter, aged 16, was "very religious and very opinionated… The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia’s throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross.

Will this grab the media attention as a hate crime as much as Matthew Shepherd?

Here’s the whole story:

**FAMILY SLAIN **

**Parents, 2 kids found in home, bound and their throats slashed **

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-3/110578391032842.xml
 
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Matt25:
Of course the murder is a hateful loathsome sinful act. What it is not is an excuse to launch a hate campaign against Muslims. Especially since no-one has been convicted of anything in connection with this.

Do you think the majority of Muslims would be less horrified by this dreadful thing than Catholics are?
Can’t you write one paragraph where you condem the murder of an American or a Christian without attacking others?
 
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gilliam:
Can’t you write one paragraph where you condem the murder of an American or a Christian without attacking others?
Yes I can but most of the contributions (“perhaps a crusade is in order”) on this thread seem incapable of expressing horror at an outrage without trying to stir up hatred against Muslims. Since hatred against Muslims is gravely sinful you want I should go along with the pogromists?
 
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