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PilgrimMichelangelo
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Yes…sadly historical revisionism is rampant with the Orthodox…and so much of Russian nationalism depends on the Third Rome theory as well to keep Imperial pretensions afloat.
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Only from this forum
it is quite funny. By the way, it is not His Holiness Bartholomew, it is his All-Holiness! Surely you didn’t mean to reduce him to likes of Pope of Rome or Patriarchs with that 
Technically, according to Chalcedon, EP can resolve something if he is appealed to… though he was appealed to by Schismatics to create their Church. They schismed without appealing to Constantinople and then Constantinople intervened when asked by secular government… oh well…
Had they called Constantinople first then this would be somewhat different. But to my knowledge they schismed by declaring it in Synod and then Constantinople somehow got appealed to (even that is a bit stinky to me, as it was mostly secular government who did that). Then there is issue that Russians basically bought Patriarchate of Kiev’s transfer historically… so is that valid? Is it not? We’ll never know.
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TomH1
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The problem is this. The pope is not an offical title. It is a title by which the Bishop of Rome is commonly known. Rome is a Latin Catholic diocese so the Bishop of Rome would have to be a Latin Catholic or he would have to be bi-ritual in the Latin rite and an Eastern rite. He would certainly spend more time celebrating Latin rite liturgies than Eastern ones.
In addition, I think the cardinals would be far more interested in many other qualities in the one they wanted to elect as pope. I do not think his sui iuris Catholic church would be a priority for them.
No, it is the very nature of the papal office to which the Eastern Orthodox object and not to the one who holds the office. Indeed, they do not agree with those Eastern Orthodox who re-united with Rome and became Eastern Catholics. I think they could possibly find greater offence if the Bishop of Rome were elected from one of the Eastern Catholic churches.
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do_justly_love_mercy
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You are asking two questions.
- Yes, there could be an Eastern Catholic pope at any time. I don’t know whether there is an Eastern Catholic cardinal who would be a suitable candidate, but there is no reason why there should not be one. The 21st century has another 80 years to run. Who knows what will happen over that period of time?
- Whether or not it would be a means to build greater unity between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches would depend upon the leadership of those churches and all sorts of other circumstances, developments in theology, politics, etc.
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Fuerza
Guest
Before Pope Francis was chosen I remember suggesting that the the Orthodox and Catholic Churches should temporarily declare unity and select the next pope from among the Orthodox Patriarchs. The first official move of the “Orthodox” Pope would be to attempt to infallibly declare a Catholic doctrine with which the Orthodox disagree as false. If he succeeded, we would all become Orthodox. If he failed, we would all be Catholic. Simple. I’m not sure why Rome and Constantinople don’t consult me more often…
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dochawk
Guest
The “schism” was by the MP, and the “Ukrainian Orthodox Church” it put forward by breaking it off of the Ukrainian Church with NVKD guns and kidnapping . . . the faithful part of church went underground while that UOC took it’s properties, and is now referred to as the UGCC.
Calling the UOC-EP and UAOC “schismatics” for not accepting the schismatic UOC-MP and it’s Russian overlords is a bit odd . . .
as for the cardinals electing an Eastern Catholic, I find this unlikely. The current (but not universal) trend is for Eastern prelates to decline the cardinals hat as a western thing.
And I don’t think that that it would be a factor in east-west relations. Pope John surviving another few years would have been far more significant . . .
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Oh I see. I was under impression they left Russian Orthodox Church rather than that they refused to join it. My bad.
I think this is why Cardinal-Patriarch title was created. Cardinal-Patriarchs are no longer clergy of Rome, just incorporated into College for matters pertaining to universal Church, so Church is not governed by Rome alone. For this reason some now accept Cardinal’s hats… some still do not. I find it silly that Eastern Patriarchs need to be named Cardinals (however automatic that is) to be part of body that governs Church directly.
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PilgrimMichelangelo
Guest
Funnily if you abbreviate His All-Holiness (in English) it amounts to HAH.Only from this forum
Just sayin’
And funnily enough, even though I am Orthodox I would find it much more palatable to accept Supreme and Immediate Jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome over the entire Orthodox Church than have the Patriarch of Constantinople be the dictator over the East…for this opinion I’m sure will be excoriated by my fellow Orthodox…
Yes. Byzantine intrigue is alive and well within Orthodoxy…
On a different note, there is now a case being made that the Patriarch of Jerusalem is the one who should call and preside at the next conference of Orthodox Primates, based upon some sort of intervention (can’t find the old article) in Ukraine during the 16th century initiated by the Jerusalem Patriarchate.
catholic03
Well-known member
My view is as follows:
If there will be an Eastern Catholic Pope in the next few decades, it is most likely going to be Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
All the current Eastern Catholic Cardinals are either too old or seem unlikely candidates.
Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk is not a Cardinal. However, he has held his position for almost 10 years, isn’t even 50 yet, and likely will become a cardinal. He heads the largest Eastern Catholic Church and is young.
I may be wrong, but he just seems the most likely.
If there will be an Eastern Catholic Pope in the next few decades, it is most likely going to be Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
All the current Eastern Catholic Cardinals are either too old or seem unlikely candidates.
Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk is not a Cardinal. However, he has held his position for almost 10 years, isn’t even 50 yet, and likely will become a cardinal. He heads the largest Eastern Catholic Church and is young.
I may be wrong, but he just seems the most likely.
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Margaret_Ann
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OrbisNonSufficit
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Nice catch! That’s actually so funnyFunnily if you abbreviate His All-Holiness (in English) it amounts to HAH .
Orthodox Church professes certain equality of Bishops… and hence taking that away is nonsensical. Rome has better claims to authority than Constantinople, from Orthodox point of view (well that is if Rome is Orthodox though). I can see why that makes sense. I always wondered why would Constantinople even hold primacy… historically Alexandria had much better claim to primacy but Constantinople was raised for “practical reasons”. Now when practical reasons demand Constantinople surrender that primacy, “tradition” of that primacy is more important. It’s all weird to Latin Catholic like me.
Oh that’s interesting. I would still be up for Alexandria actually calling a council. Would be interesting to see some sort of general council in Orthodoxy.
That is very good assumption. I wonder if His Beatitude of all people would accept though. I mean that way he could be Patriarch even in Rome’s eyes. I do kinda hope that Ukrainian Catholic Church gets to be Patriarchate soon… they have historical right for that and while that would strain relations with Moscow I don’t think it’s better to throw Ukrainian Catholics under the bus for people outside our communion tend to be somewhat less inclined towards communion with us.
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Margaret_Ann
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tafan2
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Not completely true. There is a reason Popes were predominantly Italian for hundreds of years, it was seen as a way to make sure there was never a repeat of the Avignon scandal.
In 1978, this had run its course and while the Cardinals were not looking for a Pole specifically, they were certainly looking for a non-Italian. In 2013, many Cardinals were looking for someone from Latin America.
And through it all, no one has ever wanted an American.
One could perhaps see the scenario arising where the major issue the Cardinals wanted resolved was the East West schism, and therefore focus on a person from an eastern country and/or rite. I don’t see that happening anytime soon, and I would guess it will always be improbable, but the OP scenario could at least “fit” the way conclave sometimes go.
In 1978, this had run its course and while the Cardinals were not looking for a Pole specifically, they were certainly looking for a non-Italian. In 2013, many Cardinals were looking for someone from Latin America.
And through it all, no one has ever wanted an American.
One could perhaps see the scenario arising where the major issue the Cardinals wanted resolved was the East West schism, and therefore focus on a person from an eastern country and/or rite. I don’t see that happening anytime soon, and I would guess it will always be improbable, but the OP scenario could at least “fit” the way conclave sometimes go.
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dochawk
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The ROC are good at propaganda . . .
(now, you could make an argument that the ROC itself is a schism from Kiev/UGCC, but I’m not sure what that would achieve, and see many ways that recognizing it would make even more inter-church problems)
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AlNg
Guest
Yes. I think this is an excellent idea. There have already been several Byzantine Popes and I do believe that it would ease reunion by having a Melkite Greek Catholic bishop elected as Pope.
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Jbrady
Guest
Luis Antonio Tagle looks like the favorite to win, right now. On the other hand, Robert Sarah seems to have completely dropped off the radar, even before the book debacle.
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poche
Guest
There was a movie based on that possibility that corresponded with the release of Cardinal Slipji from the soviet gulag. It was called “In the Shoes of the Fisherman.”
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
This particular Cardinal is also called “Asian Francis” because his views are very similar to ones Pope Francis holds, and their methods appear to be similar too. He apparently prefers to be called by his nickname “Chito” rather than by his clerical title… I wonder… would he choose Papal name Chito?
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Jbrady
Guest
And since he’s only 62, that would mean he’s probably going to be around for a long time.
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