"Works" Salvation? Part 2

[Linkowski]

Right on Axion. and Amen !
Philippians. 2: 12, Therefore my beloved as you have alwys obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Philippians 2:12 - Their faithful response to the divine commands Paul had taught them (Rom. 1:5; 15:18; 2 Cor. 10:5, 6). With reference to working out your own salvation…The Greek verb rendered “work out” means “to continually work to bring something to fulfillment or completion.” It cannot refer to salvation by works
(Rom. 3:21–24; Eph. 2:8, 9), but it does refer to the believer’s responsibility for active pursuit of obedience in the process of sanctification (Rom. 6:19, 1 Cor. 9:24–27; 15:58; 2 Cor. 7:1; Gal. 6:7–9; Eph. 4:1; Col. 3:1–17; Heb. 6:10, 11; 12:1, 2; 2 Pet. 1:5–11).

Fear and trembling is the attitude with which Christians are to pursue their sanctification. It involves a healthy fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him (Prov. 1:7; 9:10; Is. 66:1, 2).

The elect, yes, are to be busy to make certain of their calling and their election…

2 Peter 1:10 NAS95 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

The elect must persevere, we must walk worthy of this calling, yes…but this does not mean that one can lose their salvation. We must persevere and we will because God has soverignly decreed it from the foundation of the world…I love using this passage here…

Look in Acts 27

A group of people including Paul are on a ship and in trouble…Here is what Paul says has been God’s decree…

Acts 27:21-25 KJV 21 But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss. 22 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man’s life among you, but of the ship. 23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve, 24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee. 25 Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.

God is sovereign and has predestined this to occur. So, does that mean everyone just sits back and lets God do everything?? No, look what then happens…

Acts 27:30-31 KJV 30 And as the shipmen were about to flee out of the ship, when they had let down the boat into the sea, under colour as though they would have cast anchors out of the foreship, 31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

If God’s decree is to come to fulfillment, the means by which it comes to pass must also take place…He said - DON"T GET OUT OF THE BOAT!! We are told this many times throughout scripture. YOU MUST PERSEVERE!!..and those who are truly saved will. If not, then they, in fact and indeed, were not chosen by God from the foundation of the world.

Romans 8:30 NAS95 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

But, in this passage in Acts 27, we see God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility working together - and God ordains both…predestines both. At this point you could also consider the prophecies of God…look how all of the circumstances worked together for Mary and Joseph to return to Bethlehem.

Ephesians 2:10 NAS95 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, ***which God prepared beforehand ***so that we would walk in them.

 

[Linkowski]

I would also like to summarize a previous posting of mine into a shorter post to make a point more clear. In ROmans, we are told very explicitily thta we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law which includes the 10 commandments.

But, you are saying that we are justified by faith and keeping the 10 commandments - in doing so you are not realizing that “justified” in the context of the Romans passages is different than in James 2. That is why I believe that you are in error.

I would like to see this addressed as well.

 

[Angainor]

What many protestants forget is that justification is not a lifetime “Get out of Hell Free” card.

The implication being that once you have a “Get out of Hell Free” card, a person can go wild and crazy. Paul already thought people might think that.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Romans 6:15-19

 

[Linkowski]

The implication being that once you have a “Get out of Hell Free” card, a person can go wild and crazy. Paul already thought people might think that.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Romans 6:15-19

Yes, and in fact, this strengthens the position of complete justification by faith (which is a past EVENT in the lives of the elect who have already believed)…Paul had the same objection as you…he tells us not to abuse our liberty or freedom from the law (from the standpoint of penalty)…

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

So, Paul brought the objection before you did and it is because we are free from the penalty of the law…

Romans 8:1 KJV 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:33 KJV 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 7:1-6 NAS95 1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

It was not until God worked in me and I came to the realization that works cannot be the basis of my salvation…Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection is…the substitutionary sacrifice on the cross…

1 Peter 2:24 NAS95 24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

1 Peter 3:18 NAS95 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

2 Corinthians 5:21 NAS95 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Galatians 3:13 NAS95 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE” –

Isaiah 53:5 NAS95 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

And God granted me the gift of faith…repentant faith in His one and only Son as Lord and Savior…that was when my life was turned upside down.

The law no longer has jurisdiction over me…now I am free to serve God with a love unsurpassed.

 

[Odell]

I would also like to summarize a previous posting of mine into a shorter post to make a point more clear. In ROmans, we are told very explicitily thta we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law which includes the 10 commandments…

(Mt 19: 16-17) “Now someone approached him and said, teacher what good must I do to gain eternal life? If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.” Notice Jesus did not say just except me as you personal Lord and savior and that’s it. No Jesus said to enter eternal life you must do something, keep the commandments.

These are Jesus very words but yet your telling us its not so. Sounds like the snake in the garden but you aint tricking me

“I will demonstrate my faith to you by my works.” THAT’S WHAT CATHOLICS LIKE TO DO! But yet people for some reason have a problem with us doing what the bible clearly wants us to do.

If you want to take your chances and not do as God commands us then by all means go to church on sunday, dont feed the poor, dont give drink to the thirsty, dont welcome the stranger, dont cloth the naked, dont care for the ill, dont visit the (name removed by moderator)risoned. But for us catholics we will do as God asks of us and chose to be righteous.

One more point (Mt 22:36) "Teacher which commandment in the law is the greatest? He said to him You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and an soul, and mind. this is the greatest commandment the second is like it you shall love your neighbor as yourself the whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.

Jesus did not say what you have been saying. “well the Law dosnt excest any more for I have come so just belive in me and dont worry about the commandments.”

If the law no longer exist than I dont have to love God (Its a commandment your telling me I dont have to abide by the commandment hey I dont have to love my neighbor either that means I can steal from him I can sleep with his wife. Its a commandment and I do not have to adhear to the commandments any more.

They still exsist and they are still there for a reason if you want to take your chances, and we cant convice you otherwise then may Gods mercy be on your soul. I hope even though this is what you believe that you dont practice what you preach.

 

[Linkowski]

(Mt 19: 16-17) “Now someone approached him and said, teacher what good must I do to gain eternal life? If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.” Notice Jesus did not say just except me as you personal Lord and savior and that’s it. No Jesus said to enter eternal life you must do something, keep the commandments.

These are Jesus very words but yet your telling us its not so. Sounds like the snake in the garden but you aint tricking me

“I will demonstrate my faith to you by my works.” THAT’S WHAT CATHOLICS LIKE TO DO! But yet people for some reason have a problem with us doing what the bible clearly wants us to do.

If you want to take your chances and not do as God commands us then by all means go to church on sunday, dont feed the poor, dont give drink to the thirsty, dont welcome the stranger, dont cloth the naked, dont care for the ill, dont visit the (name removed by moderator)risoned. But for us catholics we will do as God asks of us and chose to be righteous.

One more point (Mt 22:36) "Teacher which commandment in the law is the greatest? He said to him You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and an soul, and mind. this is the greatest commandment the second is like it you shall love your neighbor as yourself the whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.

Jesus did not say what you have been saying. “well the Law dosnt excest any more for I have come so just belive in me and dont worry about the commandments.”

If the law no longer exist than I dont have to love God (Its a commandment your telling me I dont have to abide by the commandment hey I dont have to love my neighbor either that means I can steal from him I can sleep with his wife. Its a commandment and I do not have to adhear to the commandments any more.

With regard to the passage in Matthew 19…with all respect, you are confused…Christ seeks repentance from sin to the Lordship of Christ by presenting the law first (10 commandments)…in order for anyone to be justified by faith in Christ, they must tremble at Sinai first (the law)

Romans 3:20 NAS95 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The rich young ruler justified himself and was as the man in Luke 18:10-12 and showed no repentance. The word needs to fall on good soil…

Luke 8:15 NAS95 15 "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

The word will not take proper root if we do not see this first…

Matthew 5:1-8 NAS95 1 When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2 He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying, 3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 5 "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

With regard to your other comments, I would suggest that you check some of my recent postings and read them in full…it is far from the truth that I would teach someone not to do the commandments…BUT…first things first. A person must be justified by faith…repenting from sin and turning to Christ as Lord and trusting in His great sacrifice and that alone for salvation.

And nobody has yet tried to handle the problem of the BASIS of justification which the Bible presents as “by faith alone apart from the works of the law”…the moral law/10 commandments included…nobody can be justified by keeping the commandments. We are justified by faith alone…then free to serve God and LIVE by His commandments with the proper motives. Please read my postings and then come back and handle the BASIS for justification.

One thing to qualify that…answer me please with what “justified” means in Romans and what “justified” means in James 2. I will give you the reference below…

1344 δικαιόω [dikaioo /dik·ah·yo·o/] v. From 1342; TDNT 2:211; TDNTA 168; GK 1467; 40 occurrences; AV translates as “justify” 37 times, “be freed” once, “be righteous” once, and “justifier” once. 1 to render righteous or such he ought to be. 2 to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered. 3 to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be.

I will tell you very plainly that justified in Romans is the third definition above, whereas with James, it is the second definition above.

 

[sandusky]

geezerbob:

Yes, Matthew 25 is all about the sheep and the goats, and on the day of judgment, I much prefer to be counted among the sheep.

I also think that my idea of salvation is biblical and correct. Regardless, I believe, so that base is covered. I’m also trying, however insufficiently, to cover the “works” base as commanded by Christ.

Thanks for your candor about working for your salvation, Bob.

geezerbob:

If the Catholic church is right and you are wrong, where will that leave you on the final day?

There is a false assumption in your thinking, Bob; namely, that I disobediently stand on my antinomian position joyfully sinning the day away—a caricature

 

[kaycee]

(Mt 19: 16-17) “Now someone approached him and said, teacher what good must I do to gain eternal life? If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.” Notice Jesus did not say just except me as you personal Lord and savior and that’s it. No Jesus said to enter eternal life you must do something, keep the commandments.

So the non Christian can be “saved” by keeping the commandments?

This same person said to Jesus that he had done ALL these things! Jesus said that he still lacked!!

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Have you sold all your possessions and given them to the poor?

Why not? Isnt that a direct command from Jesus?

 

[sandusky]

RNRobert:

Yes, and salvation or condemnation was based on what they did.

Primarily, this passage is about belief, unbelief, and those who belong to Christ from before the foundation of the world; the ones spoken of are separated from one another, “as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,” that is the primary basis of separation (is one a sheep,or a goat), so your statement is not correct, Robert.

It stands to reason that those who are His would do the works that He goes on to describe.

RNRobert:

What makes you so sure your understanding is any more Biblical or correct than the Catholic understanding?

Robert, what makes you so sure that your position is biblical and correct?

With respect to Jn 5:24, you state:

RNRobert:

Read a few verses down:

28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation

Apparently, we’ll be judged on what we DO as much as what we SAY.

By definition, Robert, those who are good are His, those who are wicked, are not, and those who are His were judged when they were crucified with Him on the cross.

 

[sandusky]

Milliardo:

Ah yes, the proof-text of those who claim that believers will not be judged. However, other translations render this as “will not come into condemnation”; thus, we see here that it is untrue then that believers will not be judged, or else Jesus will contradict Himself with what He said regarding Judgment. The point of Jesus here, as we can see, is that those who believe and follow Him will not be condemned. You can see then that this actually comes into harmony with the Judgment passages, rather than contradict it.

The believer neither comes into judgment, nor is he condemned, Milliardo.

The Greek word in that passage is krisis, and it should be translated, judgment.
(See Robertson (the last line), and the Catholic version, Douay-Rheims

(Also, cf Mt 5, 21, 22; 10:15; 11:22, 24; 12:18, 20, 36, 41, 42; 23:23, 33; Lk 10:14; 11:31, 32, 42; Jn 3:19; 5:22, 24, 27, 29, 30: 7:24; 8:16; 12:31; 16:8, 11; Acts 8:33; 2 Thess 1:5; 1 Tim 5:24; Heb 9:27; 10:27; Jas 2:13; 5:12; 2 Pet 2:4, 9, 11; 3:7; 1 Jn 4:17; Jude 6, 9, 15; Rev 14:7; 16:7; 18:10; 19:2).

Milliardo:

I’m sorry–as I’ve pointed above, there is no passage that supports your notion. Even John 5:24 actually supports the fact that believers will be judged.

The believer will appear before Christ only for the purpose of having his works judged. The believer’s sin was judged when he was crucified with Christ (Rom 6:5ff, et al.).

Milliardo:

Edit–it is noteworthy as well to see verse 29, as pointed out by another post here. It is clear then that Judgment is for all, not just for unbelievers. So, it’s a no go sandusky–there’s no support for your notion, other than wishful thinking.

Not according to scripture; only the works of the believer will be judged; his sin was judged when he died with Christ.

 

[RNRobert]

Primarily, this passage is about belief, unbelief, and those who belong to Christ from before the foundation of the world; the ones spoken of are separated from one another, “as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,” that is the primary basis of separation (is one a sheep,or a goat), so your statement is not correct, Robert.

I’m sorry but I disagree. The parable about the sheep and the goats says nothing about belief, but about actions.

 

[onenow1]

And here’s a revelation:

Rev. 20: 12-13, The dead are judged according to there deeds.

I’d like to also point out that Jesus did everything according to the will of the Father, not the will of His human nature, but the will of His Divne Father in Heaven: in other words, He conquered the flesh, showing us the way; we may also do the same, as long as we persist in prayer and good works through the graces given us.
We will not be able top do it perfectly, but then I believe thats what purgatory is for.

The OT was not negated it was fulfilled.

Peace, OneNow1

 

[Angainor]

(Mt 19: 16-17) “Now someone approached him and said, teacher what good must I do to gain eternal life? If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.”

The person wanted to know what he must do to gain eternal life. Jesus told him plain, stark truth. In order to gain eternal life, a person must keep the commandments. All the commandments. Perfectly. This message “greatly astonished” the disciples. “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus is using the law as a mirror, to show the rich man he is sick and in need of a physician. Jesus is the physician. Through him, all sins are forgiven. Through him, salvation is given as a gift, apart from the commandments, because the commandments can only damn us.

 

[Odell]

With regard to the passage in Matthew 19…with all respect, you are confused…Christ seeks repentance from sin to the Lordship of Christ by presenting the law first (10 commandments)…in order for anyone to be justified by faith in Christ, they must tremble at Sinai first (the law)

If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.

The rich young ruler justified himself and was as the man in Luke 18:10-12 and showed no repentance. The word needs to fall on good soil…

Thats why we must repent

Luke 8:15 NAS95 15 "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

Sounds catholic to me.

But why do you call Me "Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire

So let me ask you if I was a tree and did not bear good fruit could I still get to heaven?

A person must be justified by faith…repenting from sin and turning to Christ as Lord and trusting in His great sacrifice and that alone for salvation.

I trust in Christ sacrafice alone and I bear testomny to that when I do what he ask of me.

And nobody has yet tried to handle the problem of the BASIS of justification which the Bible presents as "by faith alone apart from the works of the law

there is nothing to handle we are justified apart from the works of the law. the mosaic law we are not justified if we do not do what God ask of us.

I will tell you very plainly that justified in Romans is the third definition above, whereas with James, it is the second definition above.

you can believe what you want but it does not make it true I will choose to believe what the Church has always tought what our fathers tought. what the bible teaches. Why should I trust your interpritation over the saints. could you name one saint who tought what you believe before the reformation?

 

[Odell]

So the non Christian can be “saved” by keeping the commandments?

This same person said to Jesus that he had done ALL these things! Jesus said that he still lacked!!

Never said you couldnt do all these and still lack. Are you sugesting us catholics are lacking something?

I would say if you where not bearing good fruit you would be the one lacking.

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Have you sold all your possessions and given them to the poor?

Why not? Isnt that a direct command from Jesus?

You could take this verse out of context to justify that you dont have to help the poor if you want.

but that would bearing no fruit.

 

[Linkowski]

If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.

Thats why we must repent

But why do you call Me "Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire

So let me ask you if I was a tree and did not bear good fruit could I still get to heaven?

I trust in Christ sacrafice alone and I bear testomny to that when I do what he ask of me.

there is nothing to handle we are justified apart from the works of the law. the mosaic law we are not justified if we do not do what God ask of us.

you can believe what you want but it does not make it true I will choose to believe what the Church has always tought what our fathers tought. what the bible teaches. Why should I trust your interpritation over the saints. could you name one saint who tought what you believe before the reformation?

That is exactly the problem…I was in a situation where I was being taught contrary to scripture. Plain, clear, scripture…and instead of twisting the scriptures to meet exactly what I wanted them to say, I left and went to a different church. Since then, I have almost gone back to the Catholic Church (where I grew up since birth) on 2 occasions…BUT…when I studied scripture out for what it said, I found the Catholic teaching to be incorrect.

**You main problem is this…you see past the new birth to James Chapter 2 which is showing that real faith is living faith…BUT…

You must get real faith FIRST…this is the nature of this faith. Repenting from sin (this is the condition of the heart to receive the faith)…and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for complete justification and the new birth. Then…this is only the beginning, for we must be about the business of our sanctification. We now have a NEW PERSPECTIVE of the law (spaking to the 10 commandments). No longer are they a means of our salvation - BUT NOW…we live by them. Not to be saved but because we are saved.**
It is at the moment of the new birth where the one being justified goes from being SPIRITUALLY…blind to seeing, deaf to hearing, lame to walking, dead to alive…what you do not understand is the transformation that takes place when one realizes that they cannot merit salvation - that they must lay aside any fleshly means of attaining salvation (including external adherance to God’s law - INCLUDING the 10 commandments) and must rely solely on the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. It is then and only then that we can truly live for God the way He intended.

The works that you are so concerned about are characteristic of those who have been justified…we will bring forth fruit - some 30-fold, some 60 and some 100…You will see…

Practicing of righteousness…
1 John 2:29…29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Therefore, whatsoever is born of God practices righteousness.

Loves the brethren…
1 John 3:14…14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

Hates sin and does not practice it…
1 John 3:9…9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Loves…
1 John 4:7…7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Confesses…
1 John 4:15…15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Believes on Christ…
1 John 5:1…1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

Perseveres…
1 John 5:4…4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

Keeps commandments…
1 John 2:3…3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

By the way, after John says all of the things he writes…

1 John 5:13…13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Not lustful…
Galatians 5:24 NAS95 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Walk in the Spirit…
Romans 8:9…9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Perform works…
John 14:12…12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

God does His work and once done…He will perform it until the day of Christ…

Philippians 1:6 NAS95 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[Linkowski]

Never said you couldnt do all these and still lack. Are you sugesting us catholics are lacking something?

I would say if you where not bearing good fruit you would be the one lacking.

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Have you sold all your possessions and given them to the poor?

Why not? Isnt that a direct command from Jesus?

Jesus was asking him to demonstrate that he was perfect by asking him to love his neighor as himself and love God by following Him…but, he was shown to be imperfect…he would not repent and turn to Christ as Lord…If someone is unrepentant of their sin, there is no need to give the gospel.

Matthew 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; 19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?”

It is God that justifies - he sought to justify himself…

Luke 16:15 NAS95 15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[Angainor]

If you wish to enter life keep the commandments.

So go. Keep the commandments. Just remember:

Matthew 5

verse 22: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

verse 28: But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

verse 48: You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Good luck!

 

[Truthstalker]

So you just blow off His words?

Don’t you believe He can give someone the power to live a perfectly sinless life? After all, He did it on earth. We are to follow His example and not just make excuses like we can’t cut it. We can’t cut it. But we are to use the means (grace) He has given us and

not having a righteousness of my own, based on law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith;
10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
11 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
13 Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

(Phil. 4)
Catholics seem to be focusing on verses 12 and 13; Protestants on verse 9, but stopping there. The Catholics are saying all the verses are valid. Paul did not consider that he had “made it” - if he didn’t, how could you? Are you better than Paul? Is your theology better than his? I don’t think you will make those claims.

 

[Linkowski]

So go. Keep the commandments. Just remember:

Matthew 5

verse 22: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

verse 28: But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

verse 48: You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Good luck!

And Christ himself said - if you want to keep the law…pluck out your eyes, cut off your hands and your feet!!!

What he was saying was this…you cannot keep the commandments apart from dying to the flesh…trying to keep them externally will not do it…He told them…your righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees…

Matthew 5:20 KJV 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Why…because they kept the law very well “externally”. But, we must realize that we cannot keep the commndments to merit salvation…that we must repent from sin and turn to Christ as Lord and believe the gospel…believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as the only means of our salvation - His death, burial, and resurrection…Christ’s righteousness is the only righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees…it goes beyond perfect “external” obedience to the law.

We are justified by faith alone…apart from the works of the law to them serve Christ and obey His commandments with the motives that were intended. Once justified, we are also made dead to the law from the standpoint of its penalty. Out from under the curse…

Galatians 3:10 KJV 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.