Would it be better for me to get sterilized, or my husband?

[mommamaree]

I do not want to be out of line here, but doesn’t it appear that our dear OP is being mentally abused? It certainly seems clear to me.

 

[jmcrae]

ONLY four? Are you kidding me? Surprise pregnancy is unbelievably stressful. I have to work part time to help support the family, and my MIL watches the kids while I work. Now we have to figure out childcare options. We don’t know if she will be willing to watch yet another kid. I also don’t know how I’m going to be able to handle four along with my part-time job.

It won’t be any harder than three.

My husband yelled at me this evening and said I was “selfish” for continuing to insist on NFP for all these years. He wanted to use birth control years ago after our first surprise. He said he wants to give the baby up for adoption (I refused - that would destroy me) and threatened to leave. He finally relented when I assured him one of us could get sterilized. He said he had told my brother once that he would leave me if I got pregnant again, and my brother said he didn’t blame him.

I have a brother, too, and I know that if my husband ever said anything insulting about me (especially about something that a woman really has no control over), my brother would not hesitate to punch him in the mouth and knock him down. I’m so sorry you don’t have a good brother like I have.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Please do not listen to Listener. S/he is wrong. Do not get sterilized or encourage your husband to get sterilized. Sterilization for the purpose of birth control is evil.

 

[underacloud]

I think you need to talk to a priest. You are truly in dire circumstances if your husband is threatening to give the baby up for adoption. If one of you does get sterilized, it should be him, not you. Number one, it is a much simpler procedure for men. Number two, he is the one who said you should have been using birth control all along. He has free will, and this is apparently what he wants to do. You can’t really control what he does. If he decides to leave you, you can’t really control that, either. I also can’t see how you would have “full consent” if he decides to go ahead with this. I think that a priest could help you to see this, and I hope you will discuss this with a priest.

Please do not listen to Listener. S/he is wrong. Do not get sterilized or encourage your husband to get sterilized. Sterilization for the purpose of birth control is evil.

I don’t think that Listener meant to encourage sterilization, but merely that the OP may decide that it is prudent not to push the issue to breaking point.

If the husband insists on sterlilization, it should be he who gets it. The OP shouldn’t encourage this, but at some point she might determine, with appropriate counselling from her priest, that she could back off a little for the sake of family harmony and let her husband make his own choice (despite her objections). She will not bear any responsibility for his sin.

 

[mommamaree]

I don’t think that Listener meant to encourage sterilization, but merely that the OP may decide that it is prudent not to push the issue to breaking point.

If the husband insists on sterlilization, it should be he who gets it. The OP shouldn’t encourage this, but at some point she might determine, with appropriate counselling from her priest, that she could back off a little for the sake of family harmony and let her husband make his own choice (despite her objections). She will not bear any responsibility for his sin.

That was my understanding of what Listener was saying, too. If her husband insists on sterilization, it should be him doing it, not her. Her husband is manipulating her and attempting to force her to sin.

 

[JackieMom]

It won’t be any harder than three.

.

I don’t know what people mean when they say another child “won’t be any harder” than what the family already has. I assume folks who think this must have been blessed with only healthy and typical babies. Surely, adding a newborn with special needs, who must spend time in the NICU, who has birth defects that require interventions, or who “just” has colic, who can’t nurse, or has acid reflux adds quite a bit more work and stress to the household.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t know what people mean when they say another child “won’t be any harder” than what the family already has. I assume folks who think this must have been blessed with only healthy and typical babies. Surely, adding a newborn with special needs, who must spend time in the NICU, who has birth defects that require interventions, or who “just” has colic, who can’t nurse, or has acid reflux adds quite a bit more work and stress to the household.

A sick child is stressful no matter what their birth order - being fourth in line doesn’t automatically make them sick; nor does being first or second-born guarantee perfect health.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

ONLY four? Are you kidding me? Surprise pregnancy is unbelievably stressful. I have to work part time to help support the family, and my MIL watches the kids while I work. Now we have to figure out childcare options. We don’t know if she will be willing to watch yet another kid. I also don’t know how I’m going to be able to handle four along with my part-time job,

My husband yelled at me this evening and said I was “selfish” for continuing to insist on NFP for all these years. He wanted to use birth control years ago after our first surprise. He said he wants to give the baby up for adoption (I refused - that would destroy me) and threatened to leave. He finally relented when I assured him one of us could get sterilized. He said he had told my brother once that he would leave me if I got pregnant again, and my brother said he didn’t blame him.

He thinks it’s selfish to use NFP because it creates more work for everyone, not just me. It creates more work for him and for my MIL, who watches the kids some days. He also thinks it’s bad for all the kids because they get less attention.

Ok, this goes way beyond a normal husband and wife not really wanting more kids. He’s being in no way supportive. I can’t believe your brother has taken his side either. My brother would have punched any husband that spoke poorly of me for being pregnant. It’s not like you can get pregnant alone. He had a bit of a role in it. I’m having trouble getting past how he as been this way from child no. 1. Is he not a family man at all? I’m beginning to question how honest he truly was when he entered this marriage with you.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

ONLY four? Are you kidding me? Surprise pregnancy is unbelievably stressful. I have to work part time to help support the family, and my MIL watches the kids while I work. Now we have to figure out childcare options. We don’t know if she will be willing to watch yet another kid. I also don’t know how I’m going to be able to handle four along with my part-time job,

My husband yelled at me this evening and said I was “selfish” for continuing to insist on NFP for all these years. He wanted to use birth control years ago after our first surprise. He said he wants to give the baby up for adoption (I refused - that would destroy me) and threatened to leave. He finally relented when I assured him one of us could get sterilized. He said he had told my brother once that he would leave me if I got pregnant again, and my brother said he didn’t blame him.

He thinks it’s selfish to use NFP because it creates more work for everyone, not just me. It creates more work for him and for my MIL, who watches the kids some days. He also thinks it’s bad for all the kids because they get less attention.

To echo what others have said, it appears that this goes way beyond NFP and children.

Speaking as an imperfect husband, I would NEVER yell at my wife. I have gotten annoyed, we have argued, but that is simply not how one treats a person they love. Threatening to leave you? A real man does not do that. Nor does he conspire with his brother about possibly leaving.

You can get beyond this partciular instance, as all things pass, but the root of the problem is still going to be there, regardless of the decisions you make. Spouses are not called to threaten or yell at one another. It is childish and not loving at all.

As is often asked in these sort of topics, if you were injured in such a way that could not longer have sex, would your husband leave you at that point? That seems to be implied.

I do not mean these to be harsh, but when someone is acting poorly, it is wrong to simply let someone else get beat up or pushed into things that violate their beliefs. Loving spouses do not do that. I would talk a Priest immediately and tell him everything you have shared with us. He can guide you, comfort you, and help you through your current situation and your husband’s issues.

 

[JackieMom]

A sick child is stressful no matter what their birth order - being fourth in line doesn’t automatically make them sick; nor does being first or second-born guarantee perfect health.

Yes, but that means a new baby will not automatically be “no more difficult.” I’ve found my work load as a mom increase with each baby. It’s disingenuous to tell a mom that more kids don’t mean more work, more money and more sacrifice. I think it’s worth it, but each child adds a whole new level of difficulty, especially for that tough first year.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Yes, but that means a new baby will not automatically be “no more difficult.” I’ve found my work load as a mom increase with each baby. It’s disingenuous to tell a mom that more kids don’t mean more work, more money and more sacrifice. I think it’s worth it, but each child adds a whole new level of difficulty, especially for that tough first year.

It is different with each family, each child. I do believe that, if you let Him, God gives you the grace to deal with each child as he/she comes. Right now, off the bat, the two times I remember wondering how on Earth I would deal with more children was when I had my first child, and she was a couple of weeks old, and when I was pregnant with #4 and everyone got sick with a bad virus. I remember thinking, if this baby was already born, I don’t know how I would do it. But she wasn’t born already, and we have not had a virus like that ever since. If we ever did, I know I can trust in Him to help us through it. Adding #5 on was not more difficult than those two times, but maybe adding #6 will be! Our first was the most difficult baby, but I don’t know what God has in store for us with #6!

 

[CradleJourney]

The 5 day sperm thing DOES need to be reexamined. It’s simply bunk (at least for us.)

I will totally agree with this And so does by OB.

 

[Brendan_64]

My husband yelled at me this evening and said I was “selfish” for continuing to insist on NFP for all these years. He wanted to use birth control years ago after our first surprise. He said he wants to give the baby up for adoption (I refused - that would destroy me) and threatened to leave. He finally relented when I assured him one of us could get sterilized. He said he had told my brother once that he would leave me if I got pregnant again, and my brother said he didn’t blame him.

I this is true then you need to question whether this man loves you.

The behaviour outlined above strikes me as being bullying, controlling and abusive. He seems to be holding the threat of him leaving you as a tool to bully you into letting him get his own way. Threatening to put your child up for adoption to force you to agree to one of you getting sterilised! That’s appalling on many levels. That’s abusive and seems to display a lack of love for his child as well as you.

You need to speak to someone about all of this. Speak to a priest and tell him all of this, leaving nothing out. You also need to share all of this with a close family member.

Does your brother know exactly how this man is treating you? Does he know that your husband is using what your brother is purported to have said as a tool to bully and threaten you?

God bless,

Brendan

 

[aspirant]

I do not want to be out of line here, but doesn’t it appear that our dear OP is being mentally abused?

The behaviour outlined above strikes me as being bullying, controlling and abusive.

This is something well worth considering seriously, and should be a real concern.

Domestic violence (or intimate partner violence) is a pattern of abusive behavior when one person chooses to control the relationship through force, fear, pressure, or intimidation. Abusive behavior can be physical, verbal, emotional, sexual, or economic. Abusers use fear, guilt, shame, and intimidation to wear the other person down and keep that person under his or her thumb. Sometimes it’s subtle, and sometimes it’s extreme. Without help, abusive behavior usually gets worse.

The aim of emotional abuse is to chip away at a person’s feelings of self-worth and independence. The victim of emotional abuse may feel that there is no way out of the relationship or that without the abusive partner one has nothing (e.g. inadequate resources and/or personal support). Emotional abuse includes verbal abuse such as yelling, blaming, and shaming. Intimidation and controlling behavior also fall under emotional abuse. Emotional or psychological abusers often throw in threats of physical violence or other repercussions if they don’t get what they want.

sdeco, if any of this sounds familiar, as if it might describe your current relationship, please consider calling 800-799-SAFE (7233) or visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline website. Some information is available here regarding what to expect when you call.

 

[sdeco]

Please ask your OB to test your progesterone levels to see if you need progesterone supplementation. Lack of progesterone could lead to miscarriage.

Are you kidding me?!? Miscarriage would be the best thing that could possibly happen.

It won’t be any harder than three.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course four is harder than three. Just like three is harder than two and two is harder than one.

It’s disingenuous to tell a mom that more kids don’t mean more work, more money and more sacrifice. I think it’s worth it, but each child adds a whole new level of difficulty, especially for that tough first year.

Exactly!

I mean, what decent husband threatens to leave his family for any reason whatsoever?

Any reason whatsoever?! Haven’t you been reading this thread? Don’t you understand that we have had FOUR surprise pregnancies?!

What did “Listener” say? Why was it deleted?

 

[The_Bucket]

Are you kidding me?!? Miscarriage would be the best thing that could possibly happen.

Well that’s a pretty terrible thing to say. I know it’s probably the desperation speaking here, but the death of a child is never the “best thing that could happen.” If you really thought that, you’d follow the secular world’s route and take that life away by your own hands. I’m glad you really don’t believe that.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course four is harder than three. Just like three is harder than two and two is harder than one.

I don’t think two is any harder than one. We’re expecting our third and I don’t anticipate it being that much tougher than two. Then again we have a very supporting family, I’m there for my wife and our kids are super-excited about another little lady in the family. It’s an entirely different situation. The kids in and of themselves are not the burden. It’s the reaction to them.

I don’t see there being a large financial expense in the first year, though I know there is a lot of “sweat equity” and lost sleep that goes into a new child. That can be quite rough. I’m not particularly looking forward to that, but I am looking forward to all of the good stuff that comes with a new child. I know we can’t have one without the other! C’est la vie.

Any reason whatsoever?! Haven’t you been reading this thread? Don’t you understand that we have had FOUR surprise pregnancies?!

And where was he when these children were conceived? Twiddling his thumbs? It’s a product of our deranged society that we think we can fully divorce sex from procreation. Our first two were “surprises” and while we were fast-and-loose with the rules on the third, we didn’t think we would get pregnant on that cycle, especially since the previous cycle we came up empty and were way closer to “peak day” according to the charts. These things happen.

If you’re having sex, you should expect that a child may come with it. That’s not to say that NFP is not effective. It generally is… if you’re in a situation where the signals are clear. I think it’s in every book that if you are not clear on the signals and you do not want to conceive, don’t have relations.

Frustration on your part and your husband’s? I get that. A feeling of being overwhelmed? Sure thing. But anger? Anger?! No. No, I don’t get that at all.

If you’ll excuse some mild language, what the hell does he expect? If he’s anything like I think he is, he’s sitting there stewing thinking “How did she get pregnant, how can she do that to us. How can she do that to ME?”

News F’IN flash to him: When you have sex, kids happen. I understand that marital relations are important. You know what else is important? Having the proper disposition towards your family and your wife. And the proper disposition about sexuality.

It’s absolutely appalling that he would think about leaving you for getting pregnant. Especially since he’s the one getting you pregnant! I mean, if it was another guy… I mean yeah. Yeah I get that anger. But where the hell does he get off getting mad about a surprise pregnancy, when he’s the one providing the other half of the genetic combination?!

What did he think marriage was about? Not having children? Not having children until you’re totally “ready” and all the ducks are in a row? I don’t get it. Since when do you get mad about your wife being pregnant?

Again, I can see feeling overwhelmed. I can totally understand being frustrated and thinking “how did we get the signals wrong?”

But “how did this happen?” I’ll tell you how it happened. Biology. See, the thing about sex is that it tends to lead to babies. I mean, it is the “reproductive act” after all. Becoming angry to the point of threatening to leave your spouse over the reproductive act actually, you know, leading to reproduction is utterly insane.

Look, I cried when I found out that my was pregnant for the first time. I did not cry because I was so happy. I cried because I had no idea what the heck I was going to do. I was 22 years old making ten bucks an hour in a terrible first job right out of college. My wife was a senior in college. I had no idea what we were going to do.

Then five months later my son was born very prematurely and I cried and pleaded with God to keep him alive because I didn’t know what I was going to do if he died right after I baptized him with water from a drinking fountain.

Perspective man, perspective.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Miscarriage is the best thing?

Right. I’m done here. Shaking the dust from my feet.

 

[jilly4ski]

Are you kidding me?!? Miscarriage would be the best thing that could possibly happen.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course four is harder than three. Just like three is harder than two and two is harder than one.

Exactly!

Any reason whatsoever?! Haven’t you been reading this thread? Don’t you understand that we have had FOUR surprise pregnancies?!

What did “Listener” say? Why was it deleted?

I am praying for you.

But are you kidding me? You are wishing for the death of your child? What about your other children are you wishing for their deaths too? Because hey, they were surprise pregnancies too. Are you merely feeling defensive, I can understand that, you have been told you can’t be sterilized and then people are questioning your marriage.

But I think people are generally concerned for you. (And it is a hallmark for those who are abused to once they reveal the abusers behavior; to backtrack, cover up, or excuse their abuser’s behavior). Four surprise pregnancies is not a reason to scream at a spouse, threaten to leave ones spouse, nor to demand a child be given up for adoption. Would he be threatening to leave you if you (or he) had been on artificial birthcontrol and it failed four times, it happens? Or if you or he had been sterilized and you still got pregnant?

Please speak with your priest, your OB, and a close friend or relative. Your OB will not only take care of any medical complications but will also screen you for abuse, (please be honest, the leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide).

In the meantime we here are all praying for you, your marriage, your husband, you children (all four), and your safety.

 

[sdeco]

A miscarriage is not the same thing as “the death of a child.” It is much easier to deal with. (And yes, both my husband and I are pro-life and would never consider abortion).

I can’t believe you would even ask if I’m wishing for my other children to die. It is not the same thing in any way, shape or form.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Are you kidding me?!? Miscarriage would be the best thing that could possibly happen.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course four is harder than three. Just like three is harder than two and two is harder than one.

Exactly!

Any reason whatsoever?! Haven’t you been reading this thread? Don’t you understand that we have had FOUR surprise pregnancies?!

What did “Listener” say? Why was it deleted?

So you would like this baby to die? The best thing would be for your baby to die, because he is a surprise, you are upset, your husband is acting like a spoiled brat. Your baby was should die so you can be happy.

Five years ago I took a.pregnancy test, and I shouldn’t have been pregnant. I needed to start work full time. , I was and the first thing I said was “oh no”.

About a week later I was fervently praying the devine mercy because I had been misdiagnosed with an ineperable ectopic. The choice I was given was abortion or total hysterectomy or death. With my two other children in the room. I went home the doctor thought surgery would go against her ethics.

My baby died. And I miss him and love him and I’m sorry that for a few moments I thought “oh no!”