Would this be considered "shacking up?"

[Jay2]

After about 8 months of dating, my girlfriend offered to let me “stay over” at her place the 2 or 3 times a week we were out late together. My place was the couch.
Another 2 months and I was allowed to share her bed (FULLY PJ’D & CLOTHED- MIND YOU)

 

[1ke]

As for the scandal, on one hand I care what others think, and on the other I don’t.

It doesn’t matter whether you “care” what people think or not as that is not the point. It matters that others may be influenced in their behavior or have their conscience erroneously informed by your actions. And, leading other people to sin is in fact a sin itself. I suggest you review the Catechism on the subject of Scandal. We have an obligation, as Christians, to witness to the Truth via our actions.

Living together would give scandal whether you are chaste or not.

What about this…say I decide to wait, when would it be appropriate to move out of my apartment and into our house? A week before, a month before? Where would I stay? My parents live too far down in Southern MD, approx 60 miles away from work. I could stay with a friend or my brother I suppose…

When to move out is a matter of your personal logistics-- whatever timeframe allows all the stars to align… where you will stay, when you can pack, when someone can move your stuff, etc. That might be before the wedding or it might be after.

You may end up paying one more month’s rent, but it’s a small price to pay. Try not to look at this from a standpoint of economics but rather of spirituality and right conduct.

 

[Karin]

Don’t play the idiot.

IDIOT…thanks there jmcrae…you really are full of wonderful words today

They stay in the reception hotel for one night after the wedding reception, right? So, if they’re not taking a long trip, then that’s their honeymoon, and she moves in the next day.

Or, they leave on their honeymoon trip from the hotel the next morning, and when they get back from the trip, she moves in with him.

There’s no need to complicate it, nor to justify a lot of excuses.

I** am not justifing anything my dear, others maybe but not I**…can you read???

There is nothing stating that SHE can not live in this house that she helped purchase before the wedding and have her fiance live with his parents…or if they want he lives in the house before the wedding and she can move her stuff slowly in while living somewhere else…

I am sorry but your view of it is a bit too Mayberry for me

 

[Karin]

don’t “move in” until the whole wedding is well finished.
so now it is when the whole wedding is finished…what happened to after the whole honeymoon was done?
You do know that they are two seperate things right

 

[pira114]

This all depends on how you want to be viewed by others.

You know the truth about whether you are chaste or not. You don’t need to explain yourself to anyone if you don’t want to.

So if you don’t care what some presumptuous, ego-centric, busy bodies think about you, then go ahead. If you worry more about what others think about you than you do what’s good for you and your soon to be spouse, then don’t.

 

[puzzleannie]

What about this…say I decide to wait, when would it be appropriate to move out of my apartment and into our house? …

congratulations and I can tell you from the vantage of experience of my generation that you two are already doing the most important thing you can to guarantee the health, success and longevity of your marriage.

It is certainly good sense to buy the house now. But it will take a while for him to get settled in a job, find a house, close on it etc. In the meantime I assume he will be living with his parents. So you may only be talking about a month or two. When the house is ready, why don’t you move in first? It is usually the woman who has more to say about decorating, where to store things etc. You will be spending time together painting, fix-up etc. but your family will see your witness when he goes home to his parents at night. Believe me that is a strong, strong evangelizer. That way when you do send out invitations, have your new address on them, and gifts hopefully will be sent there, eliminating the hassle of moving them twice.

 

[setter]

Originally Posted by mikew262
No, I would not agree. Appearances can be decieving. No sin has been commited if they stay within the guidelines she stated.

Originally Posted by Karianne
I agree, Mike.
I wonder if those who are so against this move were not able to stay virtuous before marriage and are, therefore, worried that the young lady would make the same mistake?

This all depends on how you want to be viewed by others.

You know the truth about whether you are chaste or not. You don’t need to explain yourself to anyone if you don’t want to.

So if you don’t care what some presumptuous, ego-centric, busy bodies think about you, then go ahead. If you worry more about what others think about you than you do what’s good for you and your soon to be spouse, then don’t.

Yes, appearances do matter if one wants to give a credible witness to the gospel and avoid the risk of being misinterpreted by their actions, which may result in the grave offense of scandal.

Too often I believe that Catholics lack a sense of community belonging, mutual accountability to building up each other, and sense of responsibility to those weak or distant from the faith. Insert “living together” for “eat food” below, and note that both in their own right are not committing sin, but the consider and sin goes beyond the couple dyad and their personal wants and preferences.

“We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves; let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to edify him.” Romans 15: 1-2

“Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.** For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol’s temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?** And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food is a cause of my brother’s falling, I will never eat meat, lest I cause my brother to fall.” 1 Corinthians 8: 9-13

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense. (Catechism of the Catholic Church)

 

[maryalene]

I don’t think it would be a sin if you are living as brother and sister, but it could make it very difficult to wait until your wedding night to consumate the relationship. I would also be concerned about the sin of scandal. Personally, if it were me, I would try to find somewhere else to stay until the wedding.

To save money, my husband lived with my parents for about 6 months prior to our wedding. I was away at school for part of that time, and he had his own room downstairs so I never felt like we were really “living together.” However, I think it did diminish that first week after our marriage when it seems like it should have been a thrill to wake up and spend each day with my new husband and instead it seemed like old hat by that point.

Congrats and best wishes!

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Three problems, right off the bat:

1. The near occasion of sin. (Of course you don’t want to sin or lead him into sin but there you’ll both be.)
2. Giving scandal to others. I predict that you’ll get a bunch of posts saying that it’s nobody’s business whether you’re having sex or not. However, that’s just the point. Taken at face value, that is the natural conclusion that others will make about you both.
3. Living together is a privilege of marriage, in my opinion. There is something very special about waiting, waiting and waiting for this gift, rather than getting a headstart on the unwrapping process.

My 3 cents.

I agree. Regardless if it would be considered “shacking up” or not, it would still be wrong for the reasons listed above, among others. I understand how it can be confusing in this world we live in if you do not have examples to follow like you mentioned above. its great that you decided to look into this before taking action. You have mentioned several alternatives that do not involve you living together before marriage. I would look into them and pick out the one that best suits you both. This seems like a great opportunity to set a great example (or a bad one) for your family and friends since surely others will notice the trouble you are going through to avoid living together before marriage (or your giving in to moving in together before). Who knows what repercussions this will have! Good luck with everything!

 

[KCT]

Don’t let money be a deciding factor in doing the right thing. Stay in your apartment and pay rent a while longer. My opinion is that God will bless you for doing the right thing, even if it costs more —KCT

 

[StratusRose]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. Please know that I have taken it all seriously and have thought about it a lot.

My fiance and I talked about this topic at length last night. However, we’re taking everything one step at a time. We have to make sure that he’s going to get this job before we do anything. My fiance has a marajuana and DUI charge on his record that he got when he was 19. (He’s 32 now.) So if that gets held against him, he won’t get the job and we won’t move. We should know for sure by next week.

Hypothetically, if he does get the job, he promised his new boss that he would move in with his parents until he found a house because he has to live within 30 minutes of the job site. He lives in Northern VA now where he already owns a house there.

His best friend is a real estate agent and has sent him a listing of a house that sits on 50 acres. His dream is to own lots of land for various reasons…anyway…the house was built in 1961 and he said that before we move in he wants to fix it up. So that would buy us some time I guess…Neither one of us has even seen the house, it might be a real crapper that we don’t want to deal with anyway.

I’ll keep everyone updated as more details come. Thanks again for the insight. It is appreciated.

 

[mikew262]

I agree, Mike.
I wonder if those who are so against this move were not able to stay virtuous before marriage and are, therefore, worried that the young lady would make the same mistake?

Things that make you go hmmm…

 

[hasikelee]

Everyone on this thread keeps arguing back and forth about two things.

1. It is a temptation to live together.
   2)It is a scandal to others.

You know what, people will make excuses for those, perhaps even, in their situation, valid excuses. I think I can live in a house with my fiancee and not be tempted, for example. And I think that if there were special circumstances explained carefully, my family would not be scandalized.

But, I am not going to move in with him. Or spend the night. Or sleep in his bed, or him in mine. We aren’t going to grocery shop together. We aren’t going to buy each other underwear. He won’t pay my bills. I won’t nag him to fix up his place.

It’s called integrity. It’s called taking the high road, taking the honest road. Calling a spade a spade. Marriage is a unitive action that begins with a wedding. It means you start a new life with your beloved. And I want to honestly start that life. Not just sign my name after the fact.

No one can be honest with themselves and still live with another person. It changes you. It changes your relationship. It changes your interactions. There is a psychological, emotional, mental, even physical change. Especially when you carry out activities, such as sharing money, chores, dinners, showers, cars, etc.

You change as a person, hopefully for the better. But for those who are trying to follow Christ’s Church, that is supposed to happen after marriage.

 

[hasikelee]

And to stratus,
I think you are actually very well thought out and not being stupid or impulsive, even if you get that feeling from this thread. You are correct, logically. It is easier, cheaper, safer, better, etc etc to share with your fiancee. It’s supposed to be that way! That’s a good sign. Things SHOULD be easier when two come together. That is a positive sign that your marriage will start out strong.

I see it in my relationship, too. You catch yourself saying, “oh it would be so much more ____ (easier, cheaper, nicer, funner) to just ____ with my fiancee.” That is your mind choosing the most efficient or logical path. It’s certainly not an indication that you are immoral or wrong or badly educated.

Still, the best or most efficient way isn’t always the right way. That type of thinking is the same kind that leads to euthanasia, abortion and other heinous crimes!

 

[hasikelee]

Oh, now I am making a string of posts:

By the way, have you considered purchasing the house before marriage? I am saving up money right now for a down payment. I will buy a house and live there with 6 months left until marriage. He has a 12 month lease and will stay at his apartment.

That way we can buy a house we’ve had our sights on and spend time renovating, personalizing, updating, etc. The payments with a 30yr fixed are actually cheaper than renting a 1bdrm apartment around here, due to the amount of our down payment. And when we are married, we can double up payments and pay it off asap.

 

[StratusRose]

I was wondering when you were going to jump in, Hasikelee!

We both are getting way too ahead of ourselves. We need to be sure DF even gets that job, then we’ll take it from there.

Please pray that my fiance’s rough and rowdy past doesn’t punish him even more than it already has!!

 

[OldAgeGuru]

I dunno, I guess it just doesn’t bother me that much. I’ve been living in apartments for like almost 7 years now. I’ve had male roommates in ALL of the apartments. I haven’t wanted to hook up with them. I’ve wanted to hook them with things when they ate my food, or failed to clean the toilet.

I currently live in a 2 bedroom apartment with my boyfriend of 4 years. I’m ok with it. I don’t care that much. We have our own rooms. I’m not worried. Could we save money on a 1 bedroom? Yes. But rent on a 1 bedroom or even a 2 bedroom is still cheaper than a mortgage payment on a condo around here. So we can split expenses and save money for a house for us to live in once we do get married.

I wouldn’t say marriage is a unitive action that begins with a wedding. While marriage begins with a wedding, theres the whole element of courtship which should be unifying. Otherwise why get married? I don’t feel as though being roommates with my boyfriend doesn’t mean I don’t get to start a new life with my boyfriend once we are married.

I can be honest with myself and live with other people. As I’ve said I’ve been doing it for just shy of a decade,

Do people think I’m shacking up. Probably, but I don’t care. Because what I choose to do is my business and my boyfriends business and God’s business and not the nosy lady down the street who lets her dog **** on my lawn.

 

[hasikelee]

I was wondering when you were going to jump in, Hasikelee!

We both are getting way too ahead of ourselves. We need to be sure DF even gets that job, then we’ll take it from there.

Please pray that my fiance’s rough and rowdy past doesn’t punish him even more than it already has!!

It’s so exciting to plan ahead, I know what you mean! Prayers going out that your DF gets the job!

And think positively! Experience can be used to bring about good!

 

[barilbunch]

Ehhh I live with my boyfriend. We have a two bedroom apartment. I sleep in my room. He sleeps in his. Except when I fall asleep on the couch watching tv, which is like every night. Then he wakes me up by throwing a toss pillow at me and says he can;t hear the tv over my snoring.

I can’t afford to live on my own. It’s too expensive here, and I don’t make enough money. We can split expenses. Plus, we’re going to get married… I’m the one who’s not ready yet. I just don’t have time to plan a wedding, I don’t even have time to plan a teeny tiny moms and dads only wedding. I have exactly one free weekend between now and next July, and there is a good chance that that weekend will get booked soon.

I don’t really care what people say about me “shacking up with my boyfriend” We plan on buying a house within the next year, and it’s just easier for us to save money by being roommates. While my parents aren’t thrilled with the situation, which is a loooong story involving former roommates, the police, stolen property and a lawsuit (that was thrown out).

Can you not live with your parents or family member until your financial situation improves? Or, can you not get a female roommate through your church?

You may not care about what people think but we are all held accountable to God for leading people into sin by our example. By living with your boyfriend, you are showing by your example that living together is acceptable behavior and that there is no commitment needed. Now, in our culture, living together equals a sexual relationship. I know that you are not having sex, but there is no way to clarify that to those around you, especially young people. You may think you have no influence but people watch us and our actions every day of our lives and our actions do influence others decisions whether we like it or not. We have a responsibility as Catholics with strong values to stand up for our beliefs in our words and ACTIONS every day of our lives, especially when it is extremely difficult. There is an old saying that goes, “Your actions speak so loud I cannot hear what you say”. If we want to preach chastity before marriage, then we have to live that example, even in our living arrangements.

I had to live with my parents for awhile before I was married so that my husband could live in our home prior to the wedding. It was very hard as my parents and I do not see eye to eye and don’t get along, but it was a sacrifice I would make again in order to avoid scandal. If Jesus can carry a cross and die for me, then certainly I can make some small sacrifices in my life, even when it is extremely inconvenient.

Just some food for thought. I will pray that God provides you some financial resources and time to plan your wedding. Marriage is truly a blessing and a gift from God.

Holly

 

[OldAgeGuru]

Well the 190 mile each way commute is a bit prohibitive of living with my parents. I’ve lived with a female stranger before and well, no I’m not doing it again. It was wierd awkward and she had very bizarre rules for the apartment. She viewed it as HER place and let me rent a room. I had one shelf in the fridge, couldn’t use her microwave or the freezer, and she didn’t want tv’s or computers on during Sundays because it was “God’s time”. No friends could stay over, even if it was in my room, and she wouldn’t let me have cable because it was “filled with smut” (I like my law and order reruns… shove it lady) She pitched a fit if I stayed out late or all night with my friends, and wouldn’t allow alcohol in the house, at all. So I couldn’t even bring in a bottle of wine that was given to me as a gift for Xmas. I gave her a month’s noticed and crashed at a friends apt until I got another place with a friend.

I’d say dating for four years proves there’s a level of commitment there. I love him so I deal with the things he does that annoy me,both in the outside world and in our apartment.

No one is watching me… I have no social life anymore. It’s work and school. Work and school, work and school. The weekends its laundry library, library grocery store laundromat. Most of those activities don’t even include the boyfriend. Since we moved in, he’s been home for approximately 3 weeks total. He was sent to Pearl Harbor and then Alaska for work, and spent this past week in Florida with his grandparents.

I also don’t care if other people are chaste are not. It’s not my business. I don’t get to make their decisions or not.

Thank you for the prayers for time and money for a wedding and a house though… could you maybe toss in a free vacation for me… I need it between work school and the gray hairs being induced by other brides (which is seriously making me consider a quick trip to city hall and just being done with it… if planning a shower is this tedious I cant imagine what a full blown wedding will be like… I’ll probably end up in ICU)