F
friardchips
Guest
Succinct. :clapping:
- Status
J
jilly4ski
Guest
And thus the wonderful, beautiful diversity of the Catholic faith. Just because a certain spirituality doesn’t speak to you doesn’t mean it is prohibited for everyone. Some people relate more to Franciscan spirituality, others to Benedictine spirituality, some from the rosary, others to adoration, Taize prayer, or some combination of all the options, of which there are many.
Some people have a difficult time fitting both structured prayer and exercise into their daily routines, and here, one could utilize yoga postures and the meditative nature of the breathing to do both. Thus, taking care of ones bodily and spiritual heath in one go.
J
jilly4ski
Guest
And here, I think, is the main divergence in the understanding between you and those who disagree with you. One cannot lift one’s mind to Yoga. Yoga is not some abstract idea that one looks to when you assume a certain position or set of positions. For Christians who practice yoga, yoga is merely the name given to a regime that has one assume certain postures and breathing. Not unlike karate, taekwondo, and other martial arts “forms,” or an example from the west, ballet warm ups.Peeps, listen…
Be well!
- How can lifting one’s mind to Yoga, out into the Cosmos, be, at the same time, going inwards, in one’s heart, towards God? Is this not the same as going up to Jesus, saying “Hi, let me spend time with you”", then turning around and walking the other way.
I personally cannot pray while I do yoga. Maybe I am not skilled enough, but my mind always wanders, and I am too focused on the stretch or the correct technique. But I suppose others could, especially in a group setting, with a good instructor.
F
friardchips
Guest
Hi Jilly, I’m not saying that one’s mind does really lift into the cosmos - although, this is what some New Age believers, believe - but rather, I am saying that those who practice Yoga, believe their minds are in a sense reaching upward and outward - this is with Yoga spirituality. With Yoga ‘Christians’, who apparently don’t go into Hindu spirituality, the problem is that one is putting a lot of emphasis on one’s own body and mind state. And when the body takes priority of just simply being with God it becomes a form of idolatry. I think it suggests a lack of trust which a person practicing such a discipline has in God because they are thinking they are not being heard even if their results are not obvious. It is said that the Holy Spirit speaks with sighs that are too deep for words. Christians don’t have to get complex in prayer. Silence and normal breathing is fine. Controlled breathing makes one think one is going into a kind of higher state, but this is a self-induced sense of euphoria. Real Christian meditation allows for God to bring the person into a meditative state, at His behest, with no need for special breathing, no funny body positions, no need for intense chanting, no self-mind control. It is a gentle meeting of Creator with His children. Heavy breathing is more of a natural reflex action when women are experiencing labour pains. I don’t believe it is a necessary discipline when humbly approaching God.
Just sit in the company of God and know He is there.
J
jilly4ski
Guest
And yet a lot of Catholic spirituality is complex. The rule of Saint Benedict isn’t a one page pamphlet. The imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis" is a whole book as is Ignatius’ Spiritual Exercises. Not everyone can do adoration or feels like it is spiritually beneficial. Perhaps they have some attention deficit disorder or just have a mind that learns and focuses better under movement or physical activity.
I don’t understand your abhorrence of controlled breathing, as anyone who have ever run as a sport (track or cross country) is taught controlled breathing. Some people like to pray the rosary as they run or do other meditative prayers, because of the rhythmic strides and controlled breathing. I however (just like in yoga), cannot. I am too distracted to focused on the physical aspect. Indeed, in yoga, the controlled breathing is utilized to achieve deeper stretches and thus making more progress. I did this in track, with a non-yoga stretch. We would control our breathing and as we would exhale, we would stretch a little further. By the end the the track season, I could do the splits. (BTW: Controlled breathing in yoga is not heavy breathing, as someone who has labored 4 times, they are nothing a like).
You are imposing your own spiritual preferences on the Catholic faith, which traditionally allows for a wide variety of pious and spiritual behaviors, while only prescribing a few (Mass, fasting, alms depending on ability), and proscribing almost none (you can even wear hair shirts and self flagellate).
F
friardchips
Guest
Recognised methods for Christian prayers and disciplines are about detachment from sin, abstaining from indulging one’s selfish desires, meeting in community to sing praise to God, fighting temptations in order to attain a deeper conversion, humble witness in personal and communal discipline. No Christian worship is about demanding, it is about humble supplication. Spiritual exercises were humble. To grow in humility. Not for self-empowerment. Christian prayer is about accepting and offering up our brokenness that God can join our suffering with His own Passion.
In terms of illnesses, ignoring the truth in a situation and instead adding to the problem, is hardly a real solution.
Controlled breathing for sports or dance is a different subject.
Controlled breathing doesn’t have any positive influence on the effectiveness of Christian prayer.
Not quite, I am in actual fact endorsing the Catholic Viewpoint, recognised by the Magisterium.
Hair shirts are for mortification not attaining ‘higher consciousness’.
J
jilly4ski
Guest
? True, you cannot demand thing from God, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with Yoga.
How is controlled breathing in sports any different than controlled breathing during yoga,since Yoga can be viewed as a sport of sorts? Also, since people also use controlled breathing while running to facilitate prayer, how is that not exhibiting a positive influence on Christian prayer, in a similar way that yoga might? Nor does it follow, that controlled breathing during yoga leads to some a “higher consciousness.” But effectiveness? Nobody is claiming that they can independently increase the effectiveness of prayer, through breathing, through yoga, through meditation, through bible study, or through adoration, “effectiveness of prayer” is a total gift from God and there is nothing we can do to “earn” that. However, we can facilitate our opportunities for prayers as well as make the times we have the most “productive” (meaning we are in a state of mind to listen and be receptive to God).
You have been rather slippery in your actual views about yoga, so I won’t say you are wrong, as the Church often give warnings about things, even self mortification (can only be done under the direction of a spiritual advisor). But if you mean to say or imply that the Magisterium has banned yoga, then you are wrong.
A
adawgj
Guest
I’m thinking about taking up some yoga, it would really help me out with the flexibility demands that Brazilian jiu jitsu has when sparring at the dojo.
F
friardchips
Guest
Good morning. So you have not read any of the articles posted on this thread?
Actually, many are purporting such claims. Henceforth, why I said as such. So I reiterate:
Controlled breathing for sports or dance is a different subject.
Controlled breathing doesn’t have any positive influence on the effectiveness of Christian prayer.
I have not been slippery at all. There are many sides to this subject and I have attempted to grapple with it from various directions; also, according to the responses given, the direction an individual argument takes, is partly dependent on the angle the poster takes in response to my thread, so my responses, in turn, have to adjust. On the contrary, many of my questions posed go unanswered, at least to a satisfactory level. And I don’t think in any part of the thread have I mentioned once that Yoga has been banned outright by the Church. But the Church has strongly warned against it, which is then, I believe, to be acknowledged. If the Magisterium calls a certain practice into question, then the laity could be advised to find out why it is these people have made such an announcement, in trust that they do actually know what they’re talking about!
F
friardchips
Guest
That said, this is not to say that the spirituality and faith of someone who does, or has done Yoga, is not far deeper and truer than mine. My viewpoint has so far remained impersonal.
Maybe that’s the problem.
Happy Easter.
Maybe that’s the problem.
Happy Easter.
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
Doesn’t jiu jitsu have warm up stretches? Or are you looking for the deep stretching that gives greater flexibility? Stretching is an awesome practice and far more complex than most people know. Jiu Jitsu is cool even though it’s not “Catholic”.
humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/types-of-stretches
injuryfix.com/archives/pnf-stretching.php
sport-fitness-advisor.com/pnfstretching.html
J
jilly4ski
Guest
Yoga might help. But do you practice your Brazilian jui jitsu in a group, with people? To make the most progress in flexibility, partner stretches are the most effective for fast progress. (Where the partner applies gentle pressure to increase the difficulty of the stretch, as you breath out, deepening the stretch).
A
adawgj
Guest
Jiu Jitsu does have stretch warmups, but I want to reach a higher maximum of flexibility, that way i can transition to a striking martial art like karate or tae kwon doDoesn’t jiu jitsu have warm up stretches? Or are you looking for the deep stretching that gives greater flexibility? Stretching is an awesome practice and far more complex than most people know. Jiu Jitsu is cool even though it’s not “Catholic”.
humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/types-of-stretches
injuryfix.com/archives/pnf-stretching.php
sport-fitness-advisor.com/pnfstretching.html
C
coco2
Guest
This issue will go on and on, I’m afraid. I find it ludicrous. It you don’t think or feel like you are worshiping a bunch of gods other than God, then you aren’t. By the way, those other “gods” don’t even exist, so what are we talking about? There are obvious physical benefits from yoga. You do not need to do the meditation to use the exercises. Why is it so hard to believe that God may have allowed people in the East to have some understanding and insight into the body and the best ways to care for it. I’m also referring to things like acupuncture. If they are using it at major hospitals, there must be some science behind it.
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
And why must we be threatened by it all?
C
cheezey
Guest
That’s an excellent question, especially for those who are…
I love acupuncture. Effective.
I love Yoga. As does my back.
I love controlled breathing which, in turn, enables me to focus on my prayers. If I am short of breath, my concentration comes up short, too, sooo…
O
OurLadysServant
Guest
St Paul wrote in the bible; “Do you not know the false gods they worship are demons?”
If a religion strays.very far, it could be bringing a person to the opposite of our good God.
Think of the Aztecs sacraficing each other, ripping out hearts, definitely not a path to the Creator. Definitely inspired by.satan.
O
OurLadysServant
Guest
Hi Mike,
Back on the old yoga debate again…!
Ireland: a Derry priest who warned parishioners against taking part in yoga and having Indian head massages, writes Sheena Jackson.
Fr. Roland Colhoun, who is based in the Waterside, issued caution when saying mass in Drumsurn two Sundays ago, when he says he was drafted in at short notice. He said his sermon was based on the devil and exorcism.
“I mentioned a number of things that are part of the new age movement. It’s so embedded in our culture now that it has gained a kind of a respectability, but the new age practices, they’re certainly not good for us and the Church is very concerned about people employing them and has written specific documents on the new age movement. There is a great body of research (theological, spiritual and physiological) already done on it,” said Fr Colhoun.
O
OurLadysServant
Guest
Can Catholics participate in yoga? .
For example, a common mantra repeated in yoga is “So’ham” that roughly translates to “I am the universal self”. This focus on the self is contrary to the focus on God to which we are called. In the words of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI: “Christian prayer… flees from impersonal techniques or from concentrating on oneself, which can create a kind of rut, imprisoning the person praying in a spiritual privatism which is incapable of a free openness to the transcendental God” (Some Aspects of Christian Meditation, 3) (Originally quoted here).
The Pope tells us that only the Holy Spirit can “move the heart” and make it “docile to the Lord, docile to the freedom of love”. If we are seeking a zen-like peace from yoga meditation, then we are seeking peace from the wrong source.
For example, a common mantra repeated in yoga is “So’ham” that roughly translates to “I am the universal self”. This focus on the self is contrary to the focus on God to which we are called. In the words of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI: “Christian prayer… flees from impersonal techniques or from concentrating on oneself, which can create a kind of rut, imprisoning the person praying in a spiritual privatism which is incapable of a free openness to the transcendental God” (Some Aspects of Christian Meditation, 3) (Originally quoted here).
The Pope tells us that only the Holy Spirit can “move the heart” and make it “docile to the Lord, docile to the freedom of love”. If we are seeking a zen-like peace from yoga meditation, then we are seeking peace from the wrong source.
O
OurLadysServant
Guest
Back in 1989, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) of the Roman Catholic Church published the “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation” warning of the “dangers and errors” of fusing Christian and non-Christian meditative methods. The letter was written by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI) and was approved for publication by Pope John Paul II.
- Status