“Late Pope Could Be Saint Soon.” How? WHY?

[Eliza10]

Those Catholics who are willing to confront reality can read the report of…

Why don’t you confront the reality presented to you here in this thread? Responders to your original post have had wisdom to share, and you are ignoring it. Or, when you do respond, you complete miss (or change) their points.

…Another Biblical passage to keep in mind when we discuss the…[is]"Woe to the…
…

You dont seem interested in discussing, only in pontificating.

Really, you sound as if you think you could have made a better pontiff!

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

I’d like to correct a typo in my citation (in post #120) of *Mt *18:5:

***“And whoever receives one such little child for my sake, receives me.” ***

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These forums should allow an indefinite period of time for the correction of typos.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Eliza10]

Oh what a powerful message. ( Mea Culpa x infinity)
I am going to print that one out and keep it in my prayer book.

I’m glad you saw its power. There is power in truth!

Unfortunately, our original poster, Steve, does not see the truth of that same prayer - a prayer which has long been credited by the faithful to Jesus Christ Himself. Yes, Steve had a very different response to that prayer than you did. He said:

…How could Christ have ever revealed this to anyone? …

The shallowness of this response to that prayer is sad.

But now Steve has been given plenty of wisdom by responders to his OP here, and hopefully is beginning to realize that he doesn’t see things right.

So he can get up out of that prickly judgement seat upon which he has been sitting.

 

[bones_IV]

Steve this is nothing against you personally, but you appear to have this “holier than thou” attitude. It’s gotta change. I suggest you read Courage to be Catholic by George Weigel.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The failure of Pope John Paul II to respond adequately to the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church is only one reason why he cannot be canonized.

The other two reasons are listed in post #1 on this thread. All three scandals are among the worst in the entire history of the Catholic Church, and all three reflect the “diabolical disorientation” mentioned by Sister Lucia of the apparitions of Our Lady of Fátima.

For those Catholics who wish to research the sexual abuse crisis, a good place to start is the following Web page maintained by The Boston Globe:

boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/

As is the case for the PBS documentary Hand of God, I am recommending the above link only for those who are old enough and strong enough in their faith.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Sir_Knight]

let’s remember that God gave to his Church the disciplinary power of excommunication (*Mt *18:14), and that he provided it for a reason.

And let us not lose sight of the fact that the power to excommunicate is to be used when a sinner REFUSES to listen to the church.

Justice is to be always tempered with Mercy. Nowhere in scripture will you find Jesus refusing to forgive and when Jesus forgave, He forgave completely.

By the way, Mt 18:14 is the the Parable of the Lost Sheeph and has nothing to do with giving the church the disciplinary power of excommunication (*that authority is seen in Matt 18:17; 1 Tim. 1:20; Gal 1:8; and 1 Cor. 5:3-5; 16:22, etc. *).

 

[Eliza10]

The failure of Pope John Paul II to respond adequately to the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church is only one reason why he cannot be canonized…

Well I sure am glad you are not the judge of what was adequate!

How can you know what was adequate within the confines of his position, from your position?

What do you know about what it takes to run the Church?

What do you know of the worldly restrictions of the position?

And of the heavenly restrictions, I see no evidence, on this thread, that you give them any regard.

You do not have the whole picture. So it is arrogant to assume you can judge!

The other two reasons are listed in post #1 on this thread. All three scandals are among the worst in the entire history of the Catholic Church, and all three reflect the “diabolical disorientation” mentioned by Sister Lucia of the apparitions of Our Lady of Fátima…

Yes, our beloved and holy Pope John Paul II was Pope during a time when much of the whole world has turned the way of Judas, the Apostle loved by Jesus. Like Judas, the world has chosen diabolical things.

These times are foretold again and again. And I do not see any prophecies where it says that Pope John Paul II is going to bring about their diabolical choices. And I do not see any prophecies that say, “If only the Pope had been stronger, he single-handedly could have prevented the choice of the world to go with the devil!”

What a superpower you expect JPII should have been! What a high standard you hold him to! To accomplish with the world even what Jesus was not able to accomplish with Judas.

Amazing.

And you want to be punitive to his memory, because he did not accomplish what you think he should have accomplished.

…, I am recommending the above link only for those who are old enough and strong enough in their faith…

And you, too, can get older and stonger in your faith, just by listening to what other Catholics have to say, starting with here in this thread, in the responses to what you have to say. You can learn by listening and contemplating.

Keep and spread the Faith.

And when you are older and stronger in your faith, you can be truly spreading the faith, and not arrogant judgements on things you are in no positon to judge.

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Only Pontiffs should pontificate.

 

[Sir_Knight]

In addition to watching the PBS documentary Hand of God (suitable only for those who are old enough and strong enough in their faith), those interested in the reasons why Pope John Paul II cannot be beatified should be aware that the Pontiff, merely by reading one of the world’s major newspapers, could have become aware of the sexual abuse scandal in the priesthood as early as 1997.

The Pope didn’t need to be informed by his bishops or anyone in the Vatican as to what was happening on his watch. He had only to read Peter Steinfels’s news report in the July 25, 1997, edition of The New York Times. In an article entitled “$120 Million Damage Award For Sexual Abuse by Priest,” Steinfels reported that a Texas jury had awarded that amount on finding that the Diocese of Dallas had disregarded evidence that a priest had been guilty of the sexual abuse of boys. The jury also found that the diocese had attempted to conceal this scandal. The bishop of the diocese was Bishop Charles Grahmann.

Here is a link to the article:

select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F40914F93C580C768EDDAE0894DF494D81

Is it not the case that the Vicar of Christ should have known what every reader of *The New York Times *could have known? Moreover, is it not the case that John Paul II should have taken decisive action immediately? Can you imagine Pope St. Pius X or St. Charles Borromeo not taking decisive and immediate action in such a situation?

Keep and spread the Faith.

How many major newspapers are there in the world … America, Canada, England, France, Spain, the rest of Europe, Asia, South America, etc. – if the Pope read everyone of them, he would have little time for anything else.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

The Sunday Times of London has published a report claiming that Pope John Paul II is nearing sainthood:

newsdaily.com/TopNews/UPI-1-20070121-15225800-bc-vatican-saintpope.xml



I don’t understand how or why it would be possible for the Catholic Church to beatify or canonize John Paul II.

As Catholics, let’s pray for the repose of the soul of our deceased Holy Father, and let’s be grateful for his issuance of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the greatest contribution of his problematic pontificate. But let’s ask God to help us come to grips with the fact that John Paul II presided over horrific scandals, without taking adequate actions to end them. This fact makes his beatification impossible. I’m referring to these scandals:

1. The scandal of the general post-Vatican II disintegration of the human elements of the one true Church. By failing to use the authority that God gave him, John Paul II permitted attacks on faith and morals within the Church–attacks emanating to a large extent from a grievous misinterpretation of the Second Vatican Council, which did not annul, but reaffirmed, all the traditional teachings of the Church.
2. The scandal of the bishops’ failure to excommunicate politicians who support the legalized murder of unborn children. How can abortion be murder if it’s possible to defend its legalization and at the same time receive Holy Communion as a Catholic in ostensible good standing? It doesn’t take a doctorate in theology to see the blatant contradiction involved in this scandal.
3. The scandal of not preventing the commission of sexual sins by priests against minors. This scandal alone–one of the worst in the entire history of the Church–should lead Catholics to the conclusion that John Paul II cannot be beatified.

Keep and spread the Faith.

Id have to add JPII’s false ecumenism. His somewhat hypocritical involvement in political affairs (while he prevents priests from holding office) his scandalous Masses, his strange remarks concerning the salvation of those outside the Church, and his involvement in many pagan and even outright scandalous ceremonies in the name of Ecumenism.

Servant of God?.. Definitely.
In Heaven?.. Probably.
Beatified?..eh
Sainthood?..I really dont think so.

 

[AmyS]

This thread is so sad to me… Steve, I never expected the pope to be perfect. I pray that I could live my life at have the level of a Saint… With your expectaions I know that can never be achieved, although God is routing for me to be that and believes that I can be that and more. The mircles that are attributed to Pope John Paul II are possible because of God. God believed in him. Not all Popes have become Saints, it is very rare… If he is named a Saint, then you need to accept it and praise God for it. Do you realize that Pope John Paul II went to confession up to 7 times a day? I don’t think there are many of us here who can compare to him in that. And, he didn’t do it because he was that big of a sinner. Think about it.

 

[LilyM]

Id have to add JPII’s false ecumenism. His somewhat hypocritical involvement in political affairs (while he prevents priests from holding office) his scandalous Masses, his strange remarks concerning the salvation of those outside the Church, and his involvement in many pagan and even outright scandalous ceremonies in the name of Ecumenism.

Servant of God?.. Definitely.
In Heaven?.. Probably.
Beatified?..eh
Sainthood?..I really dont think so.

Well, it’s for those investigating his life, to whom the most information is available about it, to decide, not myself or yourself, nor you Mr Steve.

I wouldn’t hold my breath anyway - especially considering that he there haven’t been very many canonised Popes over the last 2,000 years.

And also considering that the poor man only died 2 years ago.

Find something more important to exercise your mental faculties over. I know I can find plenty for you if you can’t think of any

 

[LilyM]

Do you realize that Pope John Paul II went to confession up to 7 times a day? I don’t think there are many of us here who can compare to him in that. And, he didn’t do it because he was that big of a sinner. Think about it.

I think you mean 7 times a week, not a day

 

[AmyS]

amazon.com/More-Catholic-Than-Pope-Traditionalism/dp/1931709262

A good book for those few of you on this thread who think Pope John Paul II doesn’t deserve being a Saint.

 

[AmyS]

Servant of God?.. Definitely.
In Heaven?.. Probably.

What do you think it means to be named a Saint? You say he is probably in Heaven, then you debate if he should be named a Saint… Do realize that is contradictory?

 

[AmyS]

I think you mean 7 times a week, not a day

I heard a day… At least more than once a day at times, no matter what it is more than me… Sounds like the actions of a pretty humble person to me.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Christ teaches us not to allow scandals in the pontificate of John Paul II or any other pontificate to undermine our faith, but he does ***not ***teach us to deny or ignore the existence of such scandals. This is clear from the parables of the weeds in the wheat field (Mt 13:24-30) and the bad fish in the net (Mt 13:47-50).

You completely misunderstood the passages that you referenced. The bad fish are discarded when the net is full symbolizes the work done by the angels at the end of the world – not the work that we are to do.

In a similar fashion, it is not up to the servants to seperate the good wheat from the weeds. When, the servants asks, they are specifically told to let them grow together side by side and at harvest time (the end of time), God will use his angels to seperate them.

The incorrect conclusions that you have come to with these passages, brings to doubt your other conclusions.

 

[AmyS]

Id have to add JPII’s false ecumenism. His somewhat hypocritical involvement in political affairs (while he prevents priests from holding office) his scandalous Masses, his strange remarks concerning the salvation of those outside the Church, and his involvement in many pagan and even outright scandalous ceremonies in the name of Ecumenism.

Explain yourself more and take your emotions out of it… Be careful too, go read the 8th commandment.

 

[Sir_Knight]

LilyM;1869912:

AmyS;1869906:

Do you realize that Pope John Paul II went to confession up to 7 times a day?

I think you mean 7 times a week, not a day I heard a day… At least more than once a day at times, no matter what it is more than me… Sounds like the actions of a pretty humble person to me.

JPII went to confession three times a week. Mother Theresa went to confession once a day.

 

[Eliza10]

Id have to add JPII’s false ecumenism. His somewhat hypocritical involvement in political affairs (while he prevents priests from holding office) his scandalous Masses, his strange remarks concerning the salvation of those outside the Church, and his involvement in many pagan and even outright scandalous ceremonies in the name of Ecumenism.
Beatified?..eh
Sainthood?..I really dont think so.

Oh, brother, here comes another pontifficator for the judgement seat!

Moderators! Help!

Missa, are all your posts like this one? If so, this post of Steve’s is right up your alley.

Steve’s post here is going to become a magnet for posters like Missa. Lets lock it up!

Yes, your posts, Missa, are probably are all as bad as this one, and clearly you like it like that. Here is how you want to present yourself for anyone who didnt’ click on your profile:

Biography:
I am an Extremist, Papist, Ultra-Conservative Roman Catholic and Proud. Religion:
Traditional Roman Catholic Interests:
The Traditional Latin Mass, Fighting the Ecumenical Movement, Debate Occupation:
A reminder to the world that scary Fire and Brimstone Catholics still exist.

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Only pontiffs should pontificate.

 

[LilyM]

JPII went to confession three times a week. Mother Theresa went to confession once a day.

That’s what I heard too.

More than once a day, on very rare occasions, may be justified. Seven times a day sounds excessive for anyone, and I’m sure any confessor who heard him would advise him so.