30 officers hurt in Philadelphia amid looting

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pnewton said:
here is an important point here. Who called? Calling for the police in a mental health crisis is not a good idea unless the person is a serious danger to another person.
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From what I heard on NPR, the family called 9-1-1 for an ambulance and were miffed when the police showed up. My understanding is that when we report an emergency, we don’t have control over who shows up.
 
blackforest said:
From what I heard on NPR, the family called 9-1-1 for an ambulance and were miffed when the police showed up. My understanding is that when we report an emergency, we don’t have control over who shows up.
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ABC news is reporting that call ins for help involved descriptions of a “man screaming and saying he was armed with a knife.”
With a declaration of weapons being involved, one might anticipate that police might be summoned.

 
LeafByNiggle said:
Any half-way decent social worker could have defused that situation and gotten him to drop the knife without killing him. (
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Knifes where used in France on a Catholic Church and beheaded a woman. 3 dead and multiple injured. A knife is not harmless. Attack a person with a knife? The outcome can be death.
 
Rockoh22 said:
Knifes where used in France on a Catholic Church and beheaded a woman. 3 dead and multiple injured. A knife is not harmless. Attack a person with a knife? The outcome can be death.
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The killers in France were determined from the outset to kill. Walter Wallace was not. He had plenty of opportunity to stab someone and didn’t. He was suffering a mental breakdown. We should not execute people just for being mentally ill. The fact that knives can be dangerous does not mean they always are.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The killers in France were determined from the outset to kill. Walter Wallace was not. He had plenty of opportunity to stab someone and didn’t. He was suffering a mental breakdown. We should not execute people just for being mentally ill. The fact that knives can be dangerous does not mean they always are.
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It’s difficult to determine intentions in a situation like this. Mr. Wallace was armed and appears to be pursuing an officer in the video and his mother seems to be trying to impede his movements, before he moves towards the officer.
He has a previous history of violence (including assaulting an officer) and is currently awaiting trial.
Officers have been called to deal with him multiple times in the recent past.
His death is unfortunate. Whether or not he intended to kill cannot be known.
 
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jeannetherese said:
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LeafByNiggle:
The killers in France were determined from the outset to kill. Walter Wallace was not. He had plenty of opportunity to stab someone and didn’t. He was suffering a mental breakdown. We should not execute people just for being mentally ill. The fact that knives can be dangerous does not mean they always are.
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It’s difficult to determine intentions in a situation like this. Mr. Wallace was armed and appears to be pursuing an officer in the video…
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probably because the officer appeared threatening to him in his excited state.
jeannetherese said:
He has a previous history of violence
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That should not be an excuse to kill him now.
 
Victoria33 said:
Wow. Are we actually saying not to fire upon someone apparently lunging at officers with a knife…
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How about not provoke the confrontation in the first place by threatening the man? How about getting an officer with special training in de-escalation methods? Or, if an officer is not so trained, how about backing up? Or using a taser? Or shooting him in the foot? Why is it always a hail of bullets toward vital organs? That is a sign of poor training. I don’t blame the officers. They are just doing what they have been told. I blame department policies that conduct that training.
 
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jeannetherese said:
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LeafByNiggle:
The killers in France were determined from the outset to kill. Walter Wallace was not. He had plenty of opportunity to stab someone and didn’t. He was suffering a mental breakdown. We should not execute people just for being mentally ill. The fact that knives can be dangerous does not mean they always are.
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It’s difficult to determine intentions in a situation like this.
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It would be safe to say that someone suffering - in Leaf’s words - “a mental breakdown” is not operating under the auspices of rationality. So to assume a mental health professional would be able to reason with that person might be a bit of a stretch, even if the social worker is highly competent.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
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Victoria33:
Wow. Are we actually saying not to fire upon someone apparently lunging at officers with a knife…
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How about not provoke the confrontation in the first place by threatening the man? How about getting an officer with special training in de-escalation methods? Or, if an officer is not so trained, how about backing up? Or using a taser? Or shooting him in the foot? Why is it always a hail of bullets toward vital organs? That is a sign of poor training. I don’t blame the officers. They are just doing what they have been told. I blame department policies that conduct that training.
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You didn’t watch the Officer Tatum video I posted apparently. Shooting at someone’s feet is a sure way to pepper the neighborhood with stray bullets that could get innocent bystanders killed.

Perhaps rather than being so certain of your own (or Joe Biden’s) thinking on the subject you might want to consider what others have to say.

Are you an expert on police training or just regurgitating what the progressive narrative is putting out? Every serious expert I’ve read or heard does not support what you have to say.

You appear very ready to sacrifice the lives of police officers for the sake of defending a particular narrative.

Edit: In your post you supported every point that Officer Tatum dismissed and argued against, which YouTube is now censoring.

 
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And as stated, hit the upper leg, risk of hitting the femoral artery. I’m sure everyone would agree that the lower leg would be a very small target.

And I can imagine the uproar at some innocent bystander getting hurt or killed from a stray bullet aimed at the leg area.
 
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Another update: “authorities” found a van full of explosives:

article
The city of Philadelphia is on high alert Thursday after authorities discovered a van filled with explosives and other suspicious cargo – including propane tanks, torches and possibly sticks of dynamite – on Wednesday night following two nights of protests and unrest after the shooting death of a Black man by police in West Philadelphia on Monday afternoon, according to ABC News’ Philadelphia station WPVI.
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Is it your opinion that a mentally ill person advancing with a knife is a lesser threat than a sane person advancing on police with a knife? I would think that the opposite is true, but the right to self-defense and the duty to preserve one’s own life is not dependent on the mental state of the attacker.
 
Aaaanndd, back to abortion. 🤨
LeafByNiggle said:
Or, if an officer is not so trained, how about backing up?
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You would be surprised how hard it is to convince officers that sometimes retreat is actually and alternative. In this case though, were there others in danger? This situation specifically cannot be adjudged from new reports.
 
HarryStotle said:
It would be safe to say that someone suffering - in Leaf’s words - “a mental breakdown” is not operating under the auspices of rationality. So to assume a mental health professional would be able to reason with that person…
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What makes you think that a mental health professional is going to try to engage the person in a logical debate? Appeals to emotion are likely to be much more effective than appeals to logic. Maybe you should talk to these professionals and learn how they do their job.
HarryStotle said:
Are you an expert on police training…
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Are you an expert in mental health management?
HarryStotle said:
Every serious expert I’ve read or heard does not support what you have to say.
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You mean just the serious experts on Fox News?
 
Trader said:
Is it your opinion that a mentally ill person advancing with a knife is a lesser threat than a sane person advancing on police with a knife?
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It is if that sane person has a killer’s agenda, like the ones in France did.
Trader said:
I would think that the opposite is true, but the right to self-defense and the duty to preserve one’s own life is not dependent on the mental state of the attacker.
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But the very need for self defense was a choice made by the police by engaging in the way they did. Sure, once you put yourself in a situation where you are likely to be attacked, self-defense is justified. But that still leaves open the question of the wisdom (or lack of it) of putting one’s self in that position if it was not necessary.
 
Can officers retreat? What if one did and then someone got killed or injured? People would just attack the cops for that.
 
RhodesianSon said:
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LeafByNiggle:
But that still leaves open the question of the wisdom (or lack of it) of putting one’s self in that position if it was not necessary.
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It’s literally their job to put themselves in those situations.
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That is debatable. Certainly they are called upon sometimes to put themselves in dangerous situations, but this may not have been one of those times, since better alternatives should have been tried.
 
It’s about Black Lives Matter.

Glad to help out. No need to thank me.
 
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