A not-yet-locked Thread on Modesty

  • Thread starter Thread starter fide
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don’t know.

Catholic countries, especially those is Latin America or Southern Europe have this machismo culture where men don’t really treat women well.

Secular countries actually have a better track record on the treatment of women.
 
Maybe its just me but I think this article is rather sickening. Its like waving the white flag and saying “yeah its just human nature than men view women as sex objects, therefore it is okay”.
“Every normal heterosexual man who sees a woman as a sexual object can also completely respect her mind, her character, and everything else non-sexual about her. Men do this all the time.”
Click to expand...
Seems to me this is suggesting that men don’t respect a women’s body when they view them as sexual objects but respect everything else about them.

I don’t consider myself a “leftist” or someone “brainwashed through college education”. If this article is true, then men better step up and work on how they view women, God did not create women to be sex objects for men to view. You cannot respect someone’s personality and not their body. Someone’s body is a temple of the holy spirit, not a sex object.

This article makes me sick to be honest.
 
How men treat women has nothing to do with modesty. This is the problem, right here. Men treat women based on how they value them. Some treat then well, others terribly, and most, some where in between.

Each person decides for themselves how much and what kind of value they are going to assign to another. Instead of focusing on modesty, this is what should be the focus.

Incidentally, this goes for everyone. I have seen women treat men terribly, too. No different. Based on the value they assign.
 
Not to get off topic, but the issue with “I don’t see color” is not that some people aren’t there yet. The issue is that seeing color is a good thing, valuing diversity and valuing who someone is. To just say you don’t see color is to not see the beautiful diversity in humanity and to deny the true beauty of who someone actually is.

As such, saying “I don’t see color” can be very hurtful. I say this from personal experience.

As such, my point on this being related to “look but don’t touch” is that, it might be a good start but it is no where near where we need to go, we need to realize respect for others is so much more than just holding off our own urges but rather, seeing another person as a beautiful son or daughter of God.
 
Last edited:
There is nothing wrong with finding someone attractive. There is something wrong when you don’t view that person as a someone but as a something.
 
Sarcelle said:
What do you think of this article? Do men really view women as human or as objects?

Men See Women Sex Objects. It’s Not Misogynist. It’s Reality. | National Review
Click to expand...
yes men objectify women and vice versa.
Since chastity is the integration of sexuality with the whole of the person, we can appreciate each other sexually (I think this is what the article is pointing to) in the proper context. But that shouldn’t stray into objectifying the other. Objectifying is to see the other person as a means to the end of sexual gratification. And that objectification is outside the context of the whole person. Human beings are not means to an end. The good of a human being is an end in itself, and sexuality ought to pursue the good of the other person.
 
Last edited:
Sarcelle said:
You may find it hard to believe but women do experience sexual desire too.

We aren’t just blank passive devices or appliances that just wait for a man to press the “On” button. We’re human too.

I have a hunch that some of the most vociferous of modesty advocates on women agree with the idea that women are sex objects, but instead of the current cultural mantra that says “look at me, I’m a sex object”, this definition of modesty would be “don’t look at me, I’m a sex object”.

This is why frumpiness is the result of this type of modesty culture.
Click to expand...
Do you have a problem with frumpiness? 🙂

Many many religious women dress frumpy, I suspect.
Are you saying that some of your fellow parishioners dress frumpy?
That’s pretty judgmental, don’t you think? 🙃

I think that women who deliberately dress modestly are actually saying "I don’t want every random man looking at me and thinking about sex / judging how “sexy” I might be. I don’t want to be, look or act sexy in the setting where I am (church, work, school, public transit, etc).
 
Last edited:
Jen95 said:
women who deliberately dress modestly
Click to expand...
Is this opposed to women who just automatically dress modestly, as in put on some functional and appropriate outfit for their day without bothering to think about how “men” will react to it one way or another?

What “men” think of my clothing hasn’t even been on my radar screen for decades at this point. I’m not wearing it for their benefit.
 
Last edited:
Why do you put “men” in quotation marks? Just wondering.
 
Last edited:
Exactly which one of us do you think is practicing immodesty, because everyone has likely gotten the point by now. We don’t need a lecture on a sin we aren’t even committing.
 
Last edited:
Modesty does not necessarily mean frumpiness.

That is what I am trying to say.

There are clothes that look good on you and they don’t have to put your body on display. The Duchess of Cambridge dresses like this.
 
Did anyone have a comment on whether the saints’ writings had any relevance to us enlightened non-frumpy beings in the 21st century?
No?
 
Last edited:
I’ve participated in enough modesty thread and know how it evolves.

Quite predictable really. After discussion modesty, the standards of modest dress gets discussed. What is modest dress.

First no shoulders or upper arms showing, no knees, no ankles, no toes, no clothes showing the outline of the body. Preferably a high neckline.

No heels, no open toed shoes since men with a foot fetish get distracted.

Hems must be at least 8 inches below the knee.

By the time the definition of modest is done, you end up with some sort of uniform like this. This how all modest women should dress.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
It is best if each of us looks into the mirror to see who needs schooling.

Immodesty begins in the culture and inveigles its way into the faith. The faith neither teaches, causes, nor practices immodesty. Neither should it tolerate it. Not to expose the unwary to public shame or humiliation, modesty is probably best addressed in the parish bulletin.

You know what your eyes do when Father mentions it during mass, right? Who is sinning then?
 
Great post! On the topic of keeping our eyes on our own plate, I’ve brought this up in more than one modesty thread: Modesty is humility. It’s in our hearts, not in our clothes.

If you’re showing off your body, wealth, house, possessions, credentials, intellect, or - yes! - virtue, you’re being immodest. I’m not so sure that the scantily clad Mass attendee is worse off than the modest one veiled in moral arrogance. While it’s much easier to eye other people (read: women) with self-righteous scoffing, we’d do best to search our own hearts and see where we’ve failed at modesty.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
48.png
Jen95:
women who deliberately dress modestly
Click to expand...
Is this opposed to women who just automatically dress modestly, as in put on some functional and appropriate outfit for their day without bothering to think about how “men” will react to it one way or another?

What “men” think of my clothing hasn’t even been on my radar screen for decades at this point. I’m not wearing it for their benefit.
Click to expand...
I think modesty would begin in the store, when the lady or gentleman is shopping.
“Deliberately dressing modestly” just means that someone chose the clothes at some point for modesty, in addition to function and appropriateness, I guess.
 
In all honesty, I must admit that this struck me as another oh-so-human “somebody oughta’ do something!” threads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top