Abortion?

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

Source:
plannedparenthood.org/library/facts/abotaft1st_010600.html
7/20/2004
.

Planned Parenthood is not a reputable source. They are the largest Abortion Provider in the world. PP’s main objective is to keep their billion dollar baby killing business going & to do it they give information which decieves and lies to the public. Money talks! Other bad ones are NARAL & NOW.

A better place for information would be American Life League, ProLife.com, Priests For Life, Pro Life Action League, the Elliot Institute afterabortion.org/ & the Coalition for Abortion & Breast Cancer abortionbreastcancer.com/.

 

[Veronica_Anne]

Jacksquat89:

No one ever said because the fetus (baby) cannot feel you can kill it.

Moreover, YES… the baby CAN and DOES feel!! Here’s Senate Bill 2466 that is in progress of getting approved by politicians.

nrlc.org/abortion/fetal_pain/S2466.html

S 2466 IS

108th CONGRESS
2d Session
S. 2466
To ensure that women seeking an abortion are fully informed regarding the pain experienced by their unborn child.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
May 20, 2004

---

A BILL
To ensure that women seeking an abortion are fully informed regarding the pain experienced by their unborn child.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act of 2004’.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress makes the following findings:

(1) At least 20 weeks after fertilization, an unborn child has the physical structures necessary to experience pain.

(2) There is substantial evidence that by 20 weeks after fertilization, unborn children draw away from certain stimuli in a manner which in an infant or an adult would be interpreted as a response to pain.

(3) Anesthesia is routinely administered to unborn children who have developed 20 weeks or more past fertilization who undergo prenatal surgery.

(4) There is substantial evidence that the abortion methods most commonly used 20 weeks after fertilization cause substantial pain to an unborn child, whether by dismemberment, poisoning, penetrating or crushing the skull, or other methods. Examples of abortion methods used 20 weeks after fertilization include, but are not limited to the following:

(A) The Dilation and Evacuation (D&E) method of abortion is commonly performed in the second trimester of pregnancy. In a dilation and evacuation abortion, the unborn child’s body parts are grasped at random with a long-toothed clamp. The fetal body parts are then torn off of the body and pulled out of the vaginal canal. The remaining body parts are grasped and pulled out until only the head remains. The head is then grasped and crushed in order to remove it from the vaginal canal.

(B) Partial-Birth Abortion is an abortion in which the abortion practitioner delivers an unborn child’s body until only the head remains inside the womb, punctures the back of the child’s skull with a sharp instrument, and sucks the child’s brains out before completing the delivery of the dead infant.

(5) Expert testimony confirms that by 20 weeks after fertilization an unborn child may experience substantial pain even if the woman herself has received local analgesic or general anesthesia.

(6) Medical science is capable of reducing such pain through the administration of anesthesia or other pain-reducing drugs directly to the unborn child.

(7) There is a valid Federal Government interest in reducing the number of events in which great pain is inflicted on sentient creatures. Examples of this are laws governing the use of laboratory animals and requiring pain-free methods of slaughtering livestock, which include, but are not limited to the following:

(this page that gives the entire text of this Act continues to itemize ways that animals are given pain meds before we kill them…)

My source of this information came from:

nrlc.org/abortion/fetal_pain/index.html

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

When you decide to kill a baby in the womb, no matter what the reason, you totally leave God out. You don’t trust him enough. You don’t believe that He has a reason for everything. You don’t believe in God’s healing power. You don’t believe in giving your life to God to do as He wills. You simply Do Not believe.

The reason we need pro-life policies in law is not because it will stop the murders, there will always be some who will commit evil no matter what the law is. The reason we need laws is because alot of people use flawed logic. They think “if its legal, it can’t be murder”. The reason so many are so against life is because they’ve been brain washed by the media. If a baby is born alive it costs insurance companys thousands of dollars, to kill the child in the womb mere hundreds.
If a child is conceived in rape or a act of violence, the mother must pray for the strenth to love that baby enough to give it life. God can bring good out of the absolute worse conditions.
If you don’t see how intrinsicly wrong all abortion is you should pray for wisdom!

 

[puppylove]

Veronica Anne:

The Dilation and Evacuation (D&E) method of abortion is commonly performed in the second trimester of pregnancy. In a dilation and evacuation abortion, the unborn child’s body parts are grasped at random with a long-toothed clamp. The fetal body parts are then torn off of the body and pulled out of the vaginal canal. The remaining body parts are grasped and pulled out until only the head remains. The head is then grasped and crushed in order to remove it from the vaginal canal.

(B) Partial-Birth Abortion is an abortion in which the abortion practitioner delivers an unborn child’s body until only the head remains inside the womb, punctures the back of the child’s skull with a sharp instrument, and sucks the child’s brains out before completing the delivery of the dead infant.

IF THAT AIN’T MURDER THAN WHAT IS???

 

[Jacksquat89]

ProLifeAction:

Planned Parenthood is not a reputable source. They are the largest Abortion Provider in the world. PP’s main objective is to keep their billion dollar baby killing business going & to do it they give information which decieves and lies to the public. Money talks! Other bad ones are NARAL & NOW.

A better place for information would be American Life League, ProLife.com, Priests For Life, Pro Life Action League, the Elliot Institute afterabortion.org/ & the Coalition for Abortion & Breast Cancer abortionbreastcancer.com/.

So you only except information from your side of the issue, thats pretty shortsided. You prove to me that those statistics are wrong instead of trying to prove that the company that provided them is lying. If they are the ones that provide abortion they would know in which trimester it is done.

 

[Jacksquat89]

Forgive me if I am wrong but isn’t partial birth abortion not legal anymore.

**President Bush Signs Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003
**The Ronald Reagan Building
Washington, D.C.

1:40 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Good afternoon. I’m pleased that all of you have joined us as the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 becomes the law of the land. (Applause.) For years, a terrible form of violence has been directed against children who are inches from birth, while the law looked the other way. Today, at last, the American people and our government have confronted the violence and come to the defense of the innocent child. (Applause.)

whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/images/20031105-1_p35410-21-250h.jpg I want to thank you all for coming. Many of you have worked long and hard to see this bill come to fruition, and we thank you for your efforts.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mr. President. (Applause.)

THE PRESIDENT: I see some members of my Cabinet have come. I appreciate the good work of the Attorney General, John Ashcroft. (Applause.) Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, is here. Thank you, Tommy. (Applause.) There are a lot of members of the Senate and House here today, I want to thank you all for passing this important legislation. I’m glad you’re here. (Applause.)

The primary Senate sponsor is with us, Senator Rick Santorum. (Applause.) Senator Orrin Hatch and Senator Mike DeWine helped, as well, in the Senate. Thank you all very much. (Applause.) Steve Chabot was the primary House sponsor, and Steve is with us. Thanks for coming, Steve. (Applause.) I’m thankful that our Speaker is with us today. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate you coming. (Applause.) The Majority Leader, Tom DeLay, as well. Thank you for coming, Tom. (Applause.)

I’d like to mention three other members of the House. Henry Hyde is with us today. Mr. Chairman, we appreciate you coming. (Applause.) Jim Oberstar is with us. Jim, thank you for being here, sir, I appreciate you coming. (Applause.) Bart Stupak, from Michigan, is with us, as well. Thanks for coming, Bart, glad you’re here. (Applause.)

I appreciate His Eminence, Cardinal Egan, is with us today. Thank you very much, sir. (Applause.)

In passing this legislation, members of the House and Senate made a studied decision based upon compelling evidence. The best case against partial birth abortion is a simple description of what happens and to whom it happens. It involves the partial delivery of a live boy or girl, and a sudden, violent end of that life. Our nation owes its children a different and better welcome. (Applause.) The bill I am about to sign protecting innocent new life from this practice reflects the compassion and humanity of America.

The rst won’t fit, but here is the site.

whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031105-1.html
Veronica Anne:

(B) Partial-Birth Abortion is an abortion in which the abortion practitioner delivers an unborn child’s body until only the head remains inside the womb, punctures the back of the child’s skull with a sharp instrument, and sucks the child’s brains out before completing the delivery of the dead infant.

 

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

So you only except information from your side of the issue, thats pretty shortsided. You prove to me that those statistics are wrong instead of trying to prove that the company that provided them is lying. If they are the ones that provide abortion they would know in which trimester it is done.

Even if PP is right, what’s your point? Your post above was a mile long with many inconsistancies from PP so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

Forgive me if I am wrong but isn’t partial birth abortion not legal anymore.l

Yes but it will be overturned because the Pro-Aborts can easily find a liberal judge out there who will overturn the Ban on Partial Birth Abortion.

 

[Spatulate]

Naphali:

I’m talking about children being born without BRAINS … it’s not like they’re going to live, they’re only going to suffer … life is not black and white.

I am a mother of a child who was born without a BRAIN…Loren had anencephaly, which means incomplete brain development or absence of brain tissue.

His lethal birth defect did not lessen the value of his life.

He did not suffer after birth as he died during labor.

Most babies with anencephaly live less than 2 weeks. In that time, they receive the love and care of their families, while receiving hydration and nutrition. How do you make the determination that they are suffering???

It gives me tremendous comfort to know that (-if my child was not meant to live outside my body-) he died where he was created and grew in love…within my womb. I am not sure I could live with myself knowing that the end of his life was not left to God, but rather a decision made by my spouse and I.

Was it hard to know we would carry a child who would die? ABSOLUTELY! Would we do it again - yes!!! We tend to think Loren’s brief life had more impact on ourselves, our marriage, our family and friends, then perhaps he would have had he lived! Of course that is surmising on our part.

The experiences of the mothers I know who have aborted their babies with defects vs. carried to term are vastly different.

I started two online groups, and while I am no longer a member, perhaps you would be interested in taking a look:
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/anencephalyblessingsfromabove/
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Anencephaly_Support/

geocities.com/tabris02/tips.html is a site for those carrying to term a child with a lethal defect. SUPER information and support here.

 

[Naphali]

Thank you for your point of view – I was certainly not saying that in all cases, or even in most cases, some cases, any cases that a baby with such a condition SHOULD be aborted but that it would be hard to tell a family experiencing such a dilemma that they had to continue a pregnancy if they felt the baby would only suffer and then die …

I’ve said, and re-say though that this is how the law was before Row v. Wade and likely how it would be again –

I don’t expect people to understand or agree with me I’m just pointing out that there are some circumstances that abortion does happen and is in some way necessary – for instance ectopic pregnancies, BCPs, which we all know can cause early abortions, are ok with the church if a woman has a medical need and so on … There are loopholes,

And not all ectopics are caught when they burst – some are caught before – a woman could preserve her fertility (50% of it anyway) by having the live baby (still alive, not a chance it will live) by having it removed before it ruptures – the Church hold the tube must be removed without actually harming the baby, which end 50% of the mother’s fertility and does kill the baby –

They end the support – they disconnect the oxygen, they remove the feeding tube and so on of a baby that was terminal to begin with – even in the “Catholic” version of the procedure. It happens.

This is all I’m saying – Anyhow! Thanks again for your point of view, I’m sorry you had to go through that and I’m glad you baby’s life was a blessing to your family …

 

[Jacksquat89]

ProLifeAction:

Even if PP is right, what’s your point? Your post above was a mile long with many inconsistancies from PP so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

It pertains to my first post (#18) that you tried to aruge with me about(#22). It proves that most abortions are done in the first trimester when the baby cannot feel. You should be able to keep up you are the one that started the arguement.

 

[Jacksquat89]

ProLifeAction:

Yes but it will be overturned because the Pro-Aborts can easily find a liberal judge out there who will overturn the Ban on Partial Birth Abortion.

Well you know what assuming does?

 

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

It pertains to my first post (#18) that you tried to aruge with me about(#22). It proves that most abortions are done in the first trimester when the baby cannot feel. You should be able to keep up you are the one that started the arguement.

So I still do not understand your point unless you are taking the postion “First Trimester Abortions are Morally OK Since the Baby Does Not Feel Pain”. Is this your point or just come out and say it since after 93 posts we still do not know your point?

Fetal Pain abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp

 

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

Well you know what assuming does?

It’s already happening.

 

[Jacksquat89]

ProLifeAction:

So I still do not understand your point unless you are taking the postion “First Trimester Abortions are Morally OK Since the Baby Does Not Feel Pain”. Is this your point or just come out and say it since after 93 posts we still do not know your point?

Fetal Pain abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp

My point had nothing to do with you, it was directed towards a diffrent post.

RomanRyan1088:

How would you feel if you were in your mama’s womb, and then a machine sucked you outta there peice by peice, or they cut into your skull and sucked out your brains until your head clapsed? Doesn’t sound so fun, does it.

All that I said was

Jacksquat89:

Those abortion techniques are rarely used. Also abortions are usually administered before the baby can feel, or at least it has not been proven that it can feel. Abortion is wrong, but lets get our facts straight.

I never said that abortion was okay in any case you came up with that all by yourself. If you still do not understand my point than I feel sorry for you.

 

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

.

I think all the confusion lies with your Planned Parenthood copy/paste post. Maybe if you would re-paste it on a new post & then bold the portions you agree with, it would help solve all of the confusion.

 

[Jacksquat89]

ProLifeAction:

I think all the confusion lies with your Planned Parenthood copy/paste post. Maybe if you would re-paste it on a new post & then bold the portions you agree with, it would help solve all of the confusion.

The Number of Abortions after the First Trimester Is Relatively Small
Between 1997 and 2000, the number of abortions in the United States fell from 1,186,039 to 857,475 (CDC, 2000). The CDC estimates that 58 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 88 percent are performed within the first 13 weeks. Only 1.4 percent occur after 20 weeks (CDC, 2000).

 

[Jacksquat89]

ProLifeAction:

I think all the confusion lies with your Planned Parenthood copy/paste post. Maybe if you would re-paste it on a new post & then bold the portions you agree with, it would help solve all of the confusion.

The fetus cannot feel pain, since it does not have a developed brain at that time. The brains develops to it’s full potential at the close of the gestational period. It is not fully developed until shortly before the the final stages prior to birth. Even if Nathans fetus had a brain, it would not be able to feel pain since it could not be fully developed within the twelve weeks of human gestation. This is because well formed nerve ending/fibers which can transmit pain impulses along the spinal cord to the brain and chemical neurotransmitters capable of carrying the signal form the neuron to neruon indicating pain or the presence of discomfuture are not developed and the neural pathways which transmit the pain impulses are not mature enough to function until mid pregnancy or later. There is no record of neurological development in a fetus in the first trimester.

Source: The Abortion Handbook

 

[condan]

Lilyofthevalley:

Jacks, for women who are in a pregnancy which will almost certainly kill them, they have a right to protect themselves. I see nothing beautiful and heroic about a woman dying in child birth in this day and age.

Can you give an example of a life-threatening pregnancy-related illness that would be cured by killing the baby? If a woman is dying in childbirth, an abortion would be a moot point, no? A C-section would be the remedy. The intended result of an abortion is always a dead baby.

Lilyofthevalley:

As for rape and incest victims, they did not consent to having sex so why should they be forced to go through with a pregnancy?

So life is dependent on whether or not the woman wanted to have sex? So, on that logic, if a birth control method fails,is abortion acceptable then?

Lilyofthevalley:

I know the Roman Catholic Church frowns on this but I see nothing beautiful about dead mothers and rape victims being forced to continue with a pregnancy, UNLESS the woman WANTS to.

The Church doesn’t frown on abortion. It says clearly that it is a grave evil in every case because it is murder of a completely innocent and completely vulnerable person.

 

[condan]

Spatulate!:

I am a mother of a child who was born without a BRAIN…Loren had anencephaly, which means incomplete brain development or absence of brain tissue.

His lethal birth defect did not lessen the value of his life.

He did not suffer after birth as he died during labor.

Most babies with anencephaly live less than 2 weeks. In that time, they receive the love and care of their families, while receiving hydration and nutrition. How do you make the determination that they are suffering???

It gives me tremendous comfort to know that (-if my child was not meant to live outside my body-) he died where he was created and grew in love…within my womb. I am not sure I could live with myself knowing that the end of his life was not left to God, but rather a decision made by my spouse and I.

Was it hard to know we would carry a child who would die? ABSOLUTELY! Would we do it again - yes!!! We tend to think Loren’s brief life had more impact on ourselves, our marriage, our family and friends, then perhaps he would have had he lived! Of course that is surmising on our part.

The experiences of the mothers I know who have aborted their babies with defects vs. carried to term are vastly different.

I started two online groups, and while I am no longer a member, perhaps you would be interested in taking a look:
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/anencephalyblessingsfromabove/
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Anencephaly_Support/

geocities.com/tabris02/tips.html is a site for those carrying to term a child with a lethal defect. SUPER information and support here.

God bless you Spatulate. I agree with you so strongly that one life is no more or less valuable than another. Abortion is the easy way out. I will remember your precious Loren in my prayers.