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RACJ
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I'm sorry too, that every ACLU member can't be banished to the People's paradise of China. Rob :mad:
ACLU wants apology after student leads graduation crowd in reciting Lord's Prayer
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RACJ
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Remember: Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.
Frankly, the people who have banished creches from Courthouses, and have substituted twisted hunks of scrap metal in their place are among the most hateful, repulsive individuals in America. They have kicked freedom and people's faiths in the teeth, and smashed them to pieces. :crying: Rob
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ChristIsTheWay
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Freedom of religion means being free to not practice any religion. That does not mean you have a right to be free from religion if you’re talking about hearing private citizens praying, even in public places, or from things like a national day of prayer, or when chaplains say a pray before a session of Congress, etc.
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karow
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And that’s what en mass praying at a public school graduation gives the impression of: state-sponsored religion.
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Corki
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You don’t have any constitutionally protected right to be protected from jumping to erroneous conclusions.
Do you really think there was anyone there at that graduation that believes that the US government or the State of Louisiana is mandating a religious belief after hearing a teenager say the Lords Prayer in public? Which religion do you think is now the state religion of Louisiana? Catholicism? Baptist? Presbyterian? Lutheran? Do tell.
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OrdinaryMelkite
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I usuallyu agree with you, Bbarric8383, but on this one I have to disagree with you. The ACLU has OCCASSIONALLY done good things-----even a broken clock is right twice a day. On this one, though, I don’t see the point. From what I can tell, nobody was forced to join in.
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He_Man
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The impression of is not the same as the legal definition of. We can’t be held accountable for every random person’s “impressions.”
You are conflating two separate issues - whether you deem it appropriate (which is not what people sue over) and whether or not it violated a law. You may not like the idea, and that is fine, but legally speaking, this was legitimate.
And whether or not you like the idea, I personally wouldn’t presume the judge the motives of the speaker, and will give him the benefit of the doubt as to his sincerity.
Is anyone going to argue that more public, Christian prayers done in good faith could actually be a bad thing, assuming you promote Christianity?
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OrdinaryMelkite
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Correct as usual, Darryl1958.It is not quite the situation that the only public place where they are not verboten are the catacombs of Rome, true enough.
In terms of the public sphere though, praying in america is now considered about as crass as farting once was.
Public demonstrations of prayer are now considered on the same level as public smoking and saying ANYTHING derogatory about your child in school (i.e., “bullying”).
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karow
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It would be interesting to see if the courts would argue that this student was acting as a private citizen or as a representative of the school/school district, a public capacity.
I know, for example, that public employees can’t lead people in prayer during the work day. This is why public school teachers can’t lead classes in prayer, and turn around and argue they were doing it simply as private citizens.
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karow
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I think this kind of prayer - done in the public sphere - is a bad thing. And if it’s not already, it should be illegal. And if it’s already illegal, I hope both Christian and non-Christian audience members sue successfully for bazillions. I hope this causes every public school in this country to go over every commencement address with a fine tooth comb and cut the mike on speakers who veer from the scripted address by even a syllable.
I’ve lived in countries with state-sponsored religion. I’ve been forced to sit through public prayer services for faiths I don’t follow. I found it isolating, marginalizing, and more than a little childish. More importantly, I found it degrading to Christianity, the other religion, and to me, personally. I don’t want to see it happening in this country.
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ChristIsTheWay
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An interesting question, to be sure. When I was in high school (not too long ago) students regularly organized prayer amongst other students. My understanding then was that there was nothing unconstitutional about it.
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karow
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If he was invited by his school to talk, he, the school, and the school district would certainly be giving that impression.
In the spirit of civility and my desire not to respond to ad hominem comments, I will make this comment my last. I thank you for the time you’ve put into our discussion and wish you a good day.
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karow
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There’s nothing illegal - that I know of - about students praying, even in groups, on school property. If there is, somebody needs to tell the high schools in my area because students and staff gather around the flag pole at least once a week to pray.
But there’s the rub. The whole school isn’t being gather and everybody being led in prayer.
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wsteff79
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If they want to complain about the prayer complain on their own time and deal with it!!!
Ther is no problem with want the student did, if you read the Gospels the Pharisees did exactly what the ACLU is doing about prayers being offensive. As Jesus’ ways offended many people, our Lord and Savior was crucified because He offended many people; but that does not mean that He should not have taught what He did. So it was not wrong for this student to pray at the graduation. But as Jesus taught us blessed are you who are persecuted because of Me; theirs is the Kingdom of God!!!
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He_Man
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Sweet attitude. Christianity is becoming more marginalized daily, and yet you are concerned about state sponsored religion gaining traction? Not happening, especially here in America. The Commandments are coming down, crosses are being banned, and Christmas and Easter celebrations are being turned into Winter and Spring festivals. yeah, I’d be really worried if I were you…
And even if it did, the world would be better of if all states endorsed Catholicism anyway.
And you want a lawsuit for “bazillions”, but have a quote from Doris Day about not seeing Christ in the poor? Yet you want to make those responsible for this heinous act destitute? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Great idea - when you get offended, sue for money as revenge. Christ must love that concept.
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the_phoenix
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:clapping:
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irishpatrick
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It is, imo, a sad sign of the times that more people are not deeply troubled by things like this. They should be…they should see the threat to out freedoms.
Do not forget, if one person’s freedom’s can be taken–yours can too.
Do not forget, if one person’s freedom’s can be taken–yours can too.
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Cristiano
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A real Christian would simply answer to you with Lk 6:22 “Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you and shall reproach you and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.” and with Mt 5;11 “11 Blessed are you when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake”
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SamH
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I would choose not to participate. I would be offended if I were forced to participate.
Actually I am FORCED to display a Native American religious symbol on all my Oklahoma registered vehicles and the state capitol building in Kansas has the same religious symbol at the peak of its dome. Where’s your outrage?
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estesbob
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it is preety much a tradition in Texas High Schools. Never on the program. A student spontaneously stands up and leads the graduates in prayer. I thought the ACLU was for free speech?
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