Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools

[wcknight]

contemplative:

Again, this isn’t what is being advocated here. Your angle is negative and doesn’t apply here.

Catholic parents have the God given gift of discernment for their children. If Catholic schools aren’t willing to help protect their children from evil then it is time for parents to withdraw their children and homeschool. Where will that leave you wcknight???..with empty schools and eventually closed doors.

I’m negative ??? I think your view is far more negative. You want to fire someone because they are gay, and you want to isolate your kids from the world. I don’t feel the least bit intimidated by gays. I don’t advocate or agree with their life style, but I don’t thumb my nose at them either.

I can’t relate to them, and I don’t really want to. BUT I’ve been through discrimination on several levels, and I don’t like the rhetoric or the attitudes being advocated here. It smacks of bigotry and discrimination and I have a real adversion to even lean in that direction…

To say something is sinful is one thing, but to associate it with evil and subversions carries it too far. We are all sinners, but we are not all evil. IF I were to exclude all folks who were ever guilty of serious sin from our schools or Churches, they woulr be far emptier than what you suggest.

How many folks would really rather have their kids in a public school rather than have a kid from a gay couple in their Catholic school ? IF you had a handful leave because of their bigotry and hatred of gays, I say so what. We are better off without the discrimination and bigotry. I would much rather have a few kids from gay parents than a school full of bigots.

I’m not about to have an open house for gays and lets hug a gay couple evening, but I’m not about to start a lynch mob either.

I think you have to be careful what you call evil and what you call sinful. Can one lead to the other ??? sure they can,easily. But are they one and the same ? No, not by a long shot.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

It has several missions, one of which is to promote a community of charity and understanding.

Excluding those with an anti Christian agenda or who give grave scandal is neither uncharitbale, nor not understanding.

IF you want to sustain an atmosphere of exclusion, discrimination and isolation, that is one thing

I want to exclude, justly discriminate and isolate our children from those who would indoctrinate them into error and sin.

We allow non catholics and even atheists into our schools, but we are not advocating those belifs or non beliefs.

Those examples are not analgous to grave scandal. Non Catholics may still obey the natural moral law and respect Catholic teaching.

When we advocate separation, exclusion and isolation I think we are sending out the wrong message.

When we advocate thinking with a secular mindset, in place of thinking with the mind of the Church, we send the wrong message.

 

[felra]

It has several missions, one of which is to promote a community of charity and understanding. As most of the poll replies suggest, the school is not condoning same sex attraction just because it allows a child in.

IF you want to sustain an atmosphere of exclusion, discrimination and isolation, that is one thing but if you value understanding that is something else. We allow non catholics and even atheists into our schools, but we are not advocating those belifs or non beliefs.

When we advocate separation, exclusion and isolation I think we are sending out the wrong message.

It should have only one mission–to form citizens for the kingdom of God. Catholic schools should not determine their standards by polls.

“IF you want to sustain an atmosphere of exclusion, discrimination and isolation, that is one thing but if you value understanding that is something else. …When we advocate separation, exclusion and isolation” …this is the language of reverse bigotry and is meant to put Catholics on the defensive and somehow having to prove their right to retain a Catholic culture.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

BUT I’ve been through discrimination on several levels, and I don’t like the rhetoric or the attitudes being advocated here. It smacks of bigotry and discrimination and I have a real adversion to even lean in that direction…

We discriminate all the time, especially when it comes to how our chidren are influenced. In fact, not discriminating could be very problematic both morally and psychologically.

IF I were to exclude all folks who were ever guilty of serious sin from our schools or Churches, they woulr be far emptier than what you suggest.

This is a false charge. No one has called sinners to be excluded. Those who cause scandal should be excluded from influencing our children.

IF you had a handful leave because of their bigotry and hatred of gays, I say so what.

This is a smear on all good folks who have authentic standards as opposed to worldly standards.

We are better off without the discrimination and bigotry. I would much rather have a few kids from gay parents than a school full of bigots.

Straw man.

I’m not about to have an open house for gays and lets hug a gay couple evening, but I’m not about to start a lynch mob either.

Inflammatory rhetoric.

 

[contemplative]

I’m negative ???

Yes

It smacks of bigotry and discrimination and I have a real adversion to even lean in that direction

And here you go again with your negative adjectives…bigotry and discrimination.
Once again I am telling you that parents have the right to guard their children’s eyes and hearts from depravity.

Have you ever heard of guarding of the eyes or guarding of the heart? Children are not mature enough to do this for themselves. Good parents do this for their children.

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS
TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION
TO UNIONS
BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts "as a serious depravity… (cf.* Rom* 1:24-27;* 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim *1:10). This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered".(5) This same moral judgment is found in many Christian writers of the first centuries(6) and is unanimously accepted by Catholic Tradition.

 

[contemplative]

From The Rule of St. Benedict
Chapter 67
On Brethren Who are Sent on a Journey

When brethren return from a journey,
at the end of each canonical Hour of the Work of God
on the day they return,
let them lie prostrate on the floor of the oratory
and beg the prayers of all
on account of any faults
that may have surprised them on the road,
through the seeing or hearing of something evil,
or through idle talk.
And let no one presume to tell another
whatever he may have seen or heard outside of the monastery,
because this causes very great harm.
But if anyone presumes to do so,

St. Benedict recognized the evils that would befall his monks as they journeyed.

Everyday our children are sent on a journey to school…be it Catholic, private or public school.

Catholic parents choose to send their children to Catholic school to help insure a safe journey. Times haven’t changed…parents still need to protect their children.

 

[wcknight]

fix:

Excluding those with an anti Christian agenda or who give grave scandal is neither uncharitbale, nor not understanding.

I want to exclude, justly discriminate and isolate our children from those who would indoctrinate them into error and sin.

Those examples are not analgous to grave scandal. Non Catholics may still obey the natural moral law and respect Catholic teaching.

When we advocate thinking with a secular mindset, in place of thinking with the mind of the Church, we send the wrong message.

Having a child in school does not allow anyone to indoctrinate or lead kids into error and sin. Gays do not go about promoting their life style to kids or for that matter to other parents.

Gays may not be abiding by Church teaching but that is far from having an ‘anti-Christian agenda’. Certainly intollerance, and discrimination are far more anti-Christian.

And how is allowing a child into the school a secular mindset ? The child is not gay, and no one is saying that the parents lifestyle is okay. The vast majority of the time, the parents will not even be in the school. IF you want to limit your child’s meeting the parents, that is very easily done, just don’t send your child over to their place.

Gays are in the world, as someone said, they have a relative that is gay. They are not out to recruit more gays. It is not contagious. IF somehow your child ends up gay, it will not be from some gay parent having a child in the same school.

 

[wcknight]

contemplative:

From The Rule of St. Benedict
Chapter 67
On Brethren Who are Sent on a Journey
…

St. Benedict recognized the evils that would befall his monks as they journeyed.

Everyday our children are sent on a journey to school…be it Catholic, private or public school.

Catholic parents choose to send their children to Catholic school to help insure a safe journey. Times haven’t changed…parents still need to protect their children.

Schools are not monasteries and not put there to isolate ourselves from the world. Besides the parents are NOT in the school, and kids may be gay even if their parents are not.

 

[contemplative]

contemplative:

No one is proposing locking children in basements. So don’t YOU insult me.
Also, segragation is not the proposal here. You are confusing God’s given gift of discernment with segragation.

What if a parent…any parent walked into a school function sporting a blasphemous tatoo or t-shirt…use your own imagination…wouldn’t that person be promptly escorted out? Now you tell me how Catholic school officials are going to escort a same-sex couple out of a school function? My point is that once you let the blatant sin in you are asking for trouble. You can more easily escort a father sporting a blasphemous tatoo out of school than a man and man or woman and woman linked at the elbows.
Don’t invite evil in.

wcknight,
Why have you ignored this?

 

[contemplative]

wcknight:

Schools are not monasteries and not put there to isolate ourselves from the world. Besides the parents are NOT in the school, and kids may be gay even if their parents are not.

I wasn’t suggesting that Catholic schools are monasteries but families are very special units of life. St. Benedict shows how important it is to beware of our experiences out on our journey. He devised a system to help prevent evil from filtering into the unit he called a monastery. What can Catholic schools do to prevent evil from seeping in?

Active homosexual parents refuse to see the light and should not be allowed to fling themselves around in Catholic schools.

The Presumptuous Bat

The light allows the eye to distinguish, for example, gold from silver, copper from iron and tin. Moreover, it allows us to note the difference between colours and shapes, between the plants and between the animals. But only for those who have sound eyesight. The blind gain no advantage from the rays of the sun: they do not even see the brightness of the light!

There are people who do not want to open their eyes to the light of truth but are quite happy to live in darkness. They are like the blind. They are like the birds that fly by night and take their name from it, night-jars, or like bats.

It would be stupid to be angry with these animals. Nature has assigned them that destiny. But human beings who purposely choose the mirky gloom, what reason can they give to justify themselves?

What prevents them removing the mist from their eyes is arrogance. They fancy they know the truth better than others because they have studied a lot. But they are like fish in the sea: they live in salt water, but, nevertheless, once they have been caught they still need to be salted.

 

[wcknight]

fix:

We discriminate all the time, especially when it comes to how our chidren are influenced. In fact, not discriminating could be very problematic both morally and psychologically.
.

And how are our kids influenced by another kid being allowed to go to school. Are they suddenly going to be promoting gay promiscuity throughout the school ? Not likely, and if they did, then you deal with it.

fix:

This is a false charge. No one has called sinners to be excluded. Those who cause scandal should be excluded from influencing our children.
.

And parents who cheat are not in scandalously situations ?
And again what is the likelihood of these gay parents influencing our kids ? Slim and none, chances are they will have little or no contact with our kids.

fix:

This is a smear on all good folks who have authentic standards as opposed to worldly standards.
.

Really…, discrimination and intollerance are authentic while mutual respect is worldly…

Would it not then be better to just nuke all the non-Catholics and our kids will not have to ever deal with worldly standards ever.

fix:

Inflammatory rhetoric.

I think that’s true on both sides.

 

[wcknight]

contemplative:

I wasn’t suggesting that Catholic schools are monasteries but families are very special units of life. St. Benedict shows how important it is to beware of our experiences out on our journey. He devised a system to help prevent evil from filtering into the unit he called a monastery. What can Catholic schools do to prevent evil from seeping in?

Active homosexual parents refuse to see the light and should not be allowed to fling themselves around in Catholic schools.

The Presumptuous Bat

The light allows the eye to distinguish, for example, gold from silver, copper from iron and tin. Moreover, it allows us to note the difference between colours and shapes, between the plants and between the animals. But only for those who have sound eyesight. The blind gain no advantage from the rays of the sun: they do not even see the brightness of the light!

There are people who do not want to open their eyes to the light of truth but are quite happy to live in darkness. They are like the blind. They are like the birds that fly by night and take their name from it, night-jars, or like bats.

It would be stupid to be angry with these animals. Nature has assigned them that destiny. But human beings who purposely choose the mirky gloom, what reason can they give to justify themselves?

What prevents them removing the mist from their eyes is arrogance. They fancy they know the truth better than others because they have studied a lot. But they are like fish in the sea: they live in salt water, but, nevertheless, once they have been caught they still need to be salted.

Our schools are there to educate our kids how to deal with evil not to ignore or cower from it. Evil is in the world, that is a reality. Whether it comes from gays or renegade priests or from another student or a teacher, no one is immune even in a Catholic school.

Far better to teach our kids how to handle it than to ignore or hide from it. Sitting in a corner with our eyes closed does not make it go away. Recognizing it for what it is, and identifying it as wrong can prevent it. IF you choose to ignore it, it will hit you in the back of the head when you are least able to deal with it,

I seriously doubt gay parents fling themselves around anywhere.

 

[contemplative]

wcknight:

Our schools are there to educate our kids how to deal with evil not to ignore or cower from it. Evil is in the world, that is a reality. Whether it comes from gays or renegade priests or from another student or a teacher, no one is immune even in a Catholic school.

Far better to teach our kids how to handle it than to ignore or hide from it. Sitting in a corner with our eyes closed does not make it go away. Recognizing it for what it is, and identifying it as wrong can prevent it. IF you choose to ignore it, it will hit you in the back of the head when you are least able to deal with it,

I seriously doubt gay parents fling themselves around anywhere.

Guess again

Ok wcknight…how do you propose teaching our kids to handle Sueann & Thelma or Bob and Jim walking into school arm in arm for playground duty. Besides telling our kids close their eyes what would you say to your child…exactly…??? Uhh? Let us hear it. Let me scutinize what you have to say. I’ll tell you right off the bat that I don’t want to talk to my grade school child about homosexuality quite yet but just for the record what would YOU say.

 

[contemplative]

Originally Posted by contemplative
No one is proposing locking children in basements. So don’t YOU insult me.
Also, segragation is not the proposal here. You are confusing God’s given gift of discernment with segragation.

What if a parent…any parent walked into a school function sporting a blasphemous tatoo or t-shirt…use your own imagination…wouldn’t that person be promptly escorted out? Now you tell me how Catholic school officials are going to escort a same-sex couple out of a school function? My point is that once you let the blatant sin in you are asking for trouble. You can more easily escort a father sporting a blasphemous tatoo out of school than a man and man or woman and woman linked at the elbows.
Don’t invite evil in.

You keep ignoring this…:ehh: …and I am wondering whhyyy?

 

[GloriaPatri4]

wcknight:

But since it is, we have to deal with it. I happen to think discrimination and prejudice is not the route to teach our kids right from wrong.

Would I be discriminating if I didn’t allow my child to attend a sleepover or a birthday party in a homosexual household? Isn’t it my right as a parent to decide who and what my child is exposed to? Would I be discriminating if I didn’t want my child to repeatedly see two men or two women together as a couple day after day on my child’s school campus?

.

The article at the beginning of this thread is about our parish school and believe me before adults started to notice anything unusual the kindergartners were making comments about so and so having two daddies and why does so and so have two daddies. Grade school kids do notice and when they’re five year olds they don’t know that there is anything wrong with a child having two daddies or two mommies, this is where the danger lies.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

wcknight:

Allowing kids to attend a Catholic school is a far cry from having the kids live in a same sex household. If the same sex parents can be discrete about their relationship

How does the school administration go about asking same sex couples to be discrete? The former pastor of our parish repeatedly asked the same sex couple to please be discrete and when they wouldn’t comply the pastor tried to implement a policy which would force them to be discrete. This is what happened as a result of the policy.

---

Please click below to read thread

THE CAFETERIA IS CLOSED at St. John the Baptist School, Cost Mesa

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

No because we’re all sinners. You can’t say they’re condoning adultery because they admit a child who’s mother slept with another man not her husband. The kids are not at fault here and shouldn’t miss out on a good Catholic education because their parents are confused.

As long as the school doesn’t purposefully skirt around the issue of the sin of homosexuality because of the admitted child, I think it’s okay. It may do the kid and the parents the most good, rather than turning them away.

Let the little children come to me… :bible1:

 

[contemplative]

It seems that you have completely disreguarded all other posts written in this thread. It appears that you just came strolling in and dropped your line. Did you even read what was written previously? Your solution also disreguards the possibility of respecting a parent’s right to protect their child from evil. You disreguard protecting innocent children from viewing evil. If I walked on to your child’s school campus sporting a tatoo on my face that blasphemed our God wouldn’t you hope that I be escorted off school property? Now how is this situation any different than a man & man or woman & woman walking onto a school function? Active homosexuals wear their sin on their bodies…exposed for all to see. The school campus is no place for blatant obvious sin. Have you lost all sense of discernment?

QUOTE=MariaGorettiGrl]

Let the little children come to me… :bible1:

Your interpretation of this is incorrect. Try applying. Ambose’s interpretation and see if it still applies to this situation. You will see that it does not.

Childishness or the Spirit of Childhood?

Jesus says: ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God.’ [Luke 18:16]

If that is how things are, growing up means loss. Why should I desire to grow up if adulthood deprives me of the right to the kingdom? Can you explain why God should have given us physical development which favours vice, not virtue? And for what reason did the Lord not turn to children but to grown men when he was choosing his Apostles? In brief, why does he say that children are fit to enter the kingdom?

Someone will suggest this reason: because children do not bear malice, they do not know how to swindle their neighbour, they are not vindictive, they do not desire wealth, they do not covet honours.

Maybe: but virtue is not founded on ignorance. Still less is self-control praiseworthy if it is only due to impotence.

Therefore the Lord is not offering us childhood as our example but the goodness that imitates the simplicity of childhood. He does not put before us inability to sin - which would not be virtue - but the will not to sin, a steady will not to sin, for which we ought to take childhood as our model.

For the rest, the Lord himself says: ‘Unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.’ [Matt. 18:3]

Ambrose *On the Gospel of St Luke, *8

 

[Libero]

Alot of the posts here seem to be about other peoples children, not the child of the homosexual parents. Why? This is a challenge for the parents of other children, a challenge like seeing a dead bird, or seeing homosexuals on the street kissing. There will be enough challenges for the child of the homosexual parents, without being thrown out of catholic schools. If you so scared about what to say to your liitle child when they see homosexual parents, then go and ask what the child of the homosexuals says when they are asked about having more than one dad. Protecting your children is one thing, but disadvantaging, discriminating against, and condoning a child who has done nothing wrong is a completely different thing, and not really one that a catholic school should be promoting.

 

[contemplative]

Libero:

Alot of the posts here seem to be about other peoples children, not the child of the homosexual parents. Why? This is a challenge for the parents of other children, a challenge like seeing a dead bird, or seeing homosexuals on the street kissing. There will be enough challenges for the child of the homosexual parents, without being thrown out of catholic schools. If you so scared about what to say to your liitle child when they see homosexual parents, then go and ask what the child of the homosexuals says when they are asked about having more than one dad. Protecting your children is one thing, but disadvantaging, discriminating against, and condoning a child who has done nothing wrong is a completely different thing, and not really one that a catholic school should be promoting.

Your reasoning is twisted. First of all, I am not afraid to communicate to my children. Don’t mistake discernment and protection for my child with fear ( yours is just another negative word of accusation).

I’ll talk to you about the child of homosexual parents. It is most unfortunate for them to be in such a sinful situation through no fault of their own. I say go ahead and welcome these children into Catholic schools. The problem with this is the legal status of active homosexuals is quickly changing around the world. At some point soon our Catholic schools will no longer be able to add the stipulation that homosexual parents must not to present themselves together in Catholic schools. When this happens then all children will be openly exposed to homosexuality. In this case the right of all Catholic parents to protect the innocence of their children is diminished. When this is allowed what will flow through the doors of Catholic schools next? Before you know it all our children will be in jeopardy and most parents will not desire to send their children to Catholic schools anymore than public schools. Why should they bother?

Finally, no one here supporting homosexual partners/children in school have spelled out for parents what should be communicated to grade school children about homosexuality. MInd you I don’t want to expose my 6-8 year old to the concept of homosexuality quite yet…but go ahead and take a swing at it. If you are not afraid Libero, then what exactly would you tell your 6 - 8 year old child about Bill & Tom or Mabel & Beatrice? How would the conversation go?..exactly. :ehh: