Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez compares refugees to baby Jesus

[guanophore]

Mexico used tear gas in an attempt to keep them out. Mexico told them to get visas.

I guess you are saying that Mexico is incapable of defending their borders.

Curious, rather than asking for help from outside, they allowed the caravan to continue rather than forcefully deporting them. I think they did this to annoy Trump.

 

[robertmidwest]

Mexico is incapable of defending their borders.

You wanted lethal force?

Are they in Mexico legally? I cited multiple sources for you where they were turned away at the border but ignored Mexican authorities and jumped fenced and swam across the river.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

What is most relevant is the hostility from the land one is fleeing from .

You’re ignoring the other part of the definition of refugee which is equally relevant. That being, crossing an international boarder; or in Joseph’s day, the equivalent of a boarder of primary governance…i.e. the Roman Empire.

Despite the fact that Rome occupied Egypt and Palestine, they were, even according to modern definitions, separate nations. Therefore going into Egypt was crossing an international border.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Despite the fact that Rome occupied Egypt and Palestine, they were, even according to modern definitions, separate nations. Therefore going into Egypt was crossing an international border.

The word in the definition of refugee is “country” not “nation”.

Once Rome conquered the Greeks in Egypt, the equivalent of an international boarder was no longer there. The modern accepted definition of refugee does not refer to “nations”. It refers to countries with boarders… like you see on a map. For example, the Kurdish “nation” does not exist as a country with boarders that are drawn and can be seen on a map.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

You are really grasping at straws. Israel and Egypt were different countries, nations, whatever. The fact that Rome temporarily took military control of parts of them does not change that fact. The evidence is clear from the various Judean revolts, and the eventual expulsion of Jews from the vicinity of Jerusalem. The Jews never considered Rome “their country” and after the fall of Rome became a people with no country. Even if the Holy Family had fled to Rome itself instead of Egypt, they still would have been refugees because they were fleeing their country.

In any case, even if you disagree with them, there are enough intelligent people besides A O-C who consider the Holy Family refugees that she is in good company and cannot be criticized as ignorant in thinking this.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

You are really grasping at straws.

Then you say:

Israel and Egypt were different countries, nations, whatever.

The fact that Rome temporarily took military control of parts of them does not change that fact.

Temporary military control?? Talk about grasping at straws.

The fact is that Egypt became part of the Roman Empire. Look it up on the internet. It’s easy to find.

 

[F_Marturana]

Etymology of word “refugee”:

_ Refuge kept the senses of its Latin root intact, and can mean both a literal “shelter” and a figurative “sanctuary.” Refugium came from the verb refugere (“to run away” or “to escape”), itself formed from fugere (“to flee” or “to avoid”)._

 

[F_Marturana]

The Italian word “fuggire” means to run away.

 

[guanophore]

You wanted lethal force?

Is that what it would have taken to prevent them from crossing? It seems to me that the US has not used lethal force (yet) so what is the difference?

Just as a matter of principle, I think that a country that is being violently attacked by an aggressor, whether it is tanks and artillery or people on foot, has the right to use lethal force to defend the citizens of the country.

Are they in Mexico legally? I cited multiple sources for you where they were turned away at the border but ignored Mexican authorities and jumped fenced and swam across the river.

You did, but there are more recent sources that have said there is an agreement for them to remain in Mexico.

It seems to me, if Mexico did not want them to cross the border, the might have intervened a little more effectively. Are you saying they are unable to protect their border?

 

[Inisfallen]

The word in the definition of refugee is “country” not “nation”.

Once Rome conquered the Greeks in Egypt, the equivalent of an international boarder was no longer there. The modern accepted definition of refugee does not refer to “nations”. It refers to countries with boarders… like you see on a map. For example, the Kurdish “nation” does not exist as a country with boarders that are drawn and can be seen on a map.

It seems to be very important to you that the Holy Family not be considered to have ever been refugees. This is a new idea to me – starting way back in Catholic school, back in the sixties, I was always told that they were, at one time, refugees. But you think differently.

I’m curious as to why?

 

[1Lord1Faith]

I’m curious as to why?

Because I think politicians/people are using the holy family for political gain. It’s rather uninteresting that a Catholic school would use a colloquial meaning of the word refugee, and apply it to the holy family. It’s another thing for politicians to use the holy family in a way that gives credence to their own views of boarder policy. Especially when, technically speaking, the holy family do no fit the definition of refugee that a politician ought to be using. That definition being the one the U.N. uses, or the one from a dictionary.

 

[LastStand]

It is derogatory in the same sense that “pedophile”, “terrorist” and “drunkard” are derogatory, an accurate term for evil behavior.

 

[Inisfallen]

Because I think politicians/people are using the holy family for political gain.

That has always been true, sadly.

My own approach to that would be to question the motives of those using the Holy Family for their own ends, rather than to question the fact that the Holy Family were at one time refugees.

 

[Theo520]

She was elected by the people of her district, in the boroughs of Queens and the Bronx, in New York City.

If I recall, less than 9% of eligible voters picked her in the primary.

 

[HCTC]

If I recall, less than 9% of eligible voters picked her in the primary.

Wrong again, :Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of Democrats’ biggest stars from this midterm cycle, is now officially the [youngest woman elected to US Congress. Ocasio-Cortez — a democratic socialist who rose to fame after upsetting Democratic Rep. Joe Crowley earlier this year — easily won her race for [New York’s 14th Congressional District on Tuesday, with over 75 percent of the vote.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is now the youngest woman elected to Congress

She’s one of Democrats’ biggest stars from this cycle.

www.vox.com

 

[poche]

The baby Jesus was a refugee.

 

[Rhubarb]

You are couching your argument in a definition - namely that refugees must be moving across an international boundary - so the Holy Family must be ‘displaced persons’. You are quite literally arguing the semantics, which, isn’t the point at all. The point is people in trouble, in desperate, dire trouble, who cross distances to end up somewhere their family can exist and live safely.

But let’s talk semantics anyhow!

The kingdom border - Judea and Egypt, is in fact, international boundaries. You see, empires by definition are not nations. They are not nation-states. They are empires - a super-territory made up of many nation-states and regions. This is an important distinction in the history of geopolitics, the difference between a nation and an empire. So the Holy Family indeed did not cross any imperial boundaries. But they did cross the boundary of the kingdom of Judea (a nation-state) into the kingdom of Egypt (another nation-state), thus indeed crossing an international boundary. Ergo, by your definition, the Holy Family were refugees.

Which again, isn’t the point what they were called. The point is that they were people fleeing to a foreign land, with foreign laws and foreign customs and foreign people, for the safety of their family. And I have to wonder very much about how we are treating these foreigners in our land - Are we letting brotherly love continue? Or are we neglecting to show hospitality to strangers, thereby mistreating angels unawares.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

So the Holy Family indeed did not cross any imperial boundaries

Right, they did not cross any boundaries of primary governance.

Maybe an analogy would be in order. Would a Jew from the USSR be considered a refugee if they fled to Poland in 1949?

 

[Inisfallen]

If I recall, less than 9% of eligible voters picked her in the primary.

I haven’t heard that number, but so what? She won, resoundingly.

I suspect that many voters did not turn out to vote, assuming that Joe Crowley had the primary locked up tight. He certainly thought so, and barely bothered to campaign. So he lost.

 

[Inisfallen]

Well, he’s wrong, clearly. He should have studied up on the politics of the Roman Empire in the first century.

We really need higher standards for the education of our Popes.