Amnesty Dead for now!

[Geldain]

LCMS_No_More:

Oh, you’re a clever one.

Words mean things. It’s not my fault that they do so

 

[Thekla]

LCMS_No_More:

Isn’t that sad? What’s even funnier is that I’m not even on the left…or the right. I just pay attention to the Catechism (not just select portions but the whole thing). Remember…the line to the cafeteria forms to both the left AND the right.

I hear you! For 12 years, I was registered as an independent for voting purposes, but I’d been feeling more and more repelled by the language of the religious right. Then one day, someone here on CA pointed out that politicians don’t listen to independents. I thought about it and got my husband to re-register with me.

This immigration thing is just one more example. I love the fact that the Catholic and other churches are taking a position in support of the poor and in support of families. And it just hurts my neck to see how quickly people who we’ve heard talking about the importance of valuing families begin spewing hostility and venom on the issue of illegal immigration.

 

[Thekla]

Troy7:

Geldain, from where is this place “you sit” This phrase you are fond of using denotes (at least to me) a very all knowing high altitude viewpoint of everything going on in the world that allows you the one and only correct perspective on all matters.

The last time I brought up the “from where I sit” thing, I was informed that it was a chair from Staples purchased by his wife.

 

[Geldain]

Thekla:

The last time I brought up the “from where I sit” thing, I was informed that it was a chair from Staples purchased by his wife.

Same chair. Very comfortable and cost less than 100 bucks

 

[Jeffrey]

Thats because most ppl on the left don’t believe in God… or believe some blasphemous form of Him.

Thekla:

LCMS,

Yikes! Look out LCMS. What you’ve said has been noted. You know, you rarely if ever hear people on the left using the “condemnation of God” card, but it’s brandished as a tool by some on the right with great alacrity.

Keeping families together should be one of the top priorities for how we deal with the immigration problem. I have to laugh at some in the self-proclaimed family values crowd now suggesting that concern for these families is just a guise. It’s just sad to see actions that never seem to match their own perception of themselves. You could almost say it’s being delusional.

Thekla

 

[Thekla]

Jeffrey:

Thats because most ppl on the left don’t believe in God… or believe some blasphemous form of Him.

I have to disagree with you. The more I have looked at religion and politics and the way they use each other, the more I have come to believe that a lot of people on the left are deeply but not overtly spiritual. And I think that because it isn’t overt, others will say they don’t believe in God.

Conversely, a lot of people on the right are publicly spiritual but shallow in implementation. It’s the falseness that grates on nerves. I think that’s why we are constantly shocked to see public figures who portray religiosity getting themselves into trouble with scandals and stuff like that. We probably shouldn’t be shocked at all.

 

[rlg94086]

Why think the worst of people…on either political spectrum? There are sinners on both sides of the aisle.

The fact that it is *more *shocking when someone on the right sins in public is because the stated philosophy of the left is more libertine. That doesn’t mean there aren’t genuinely religious people on the left, it just means they believe “whatever works for you” is okay. Therefore, when someone on the left sins, it’s “oh well, what do you expect from libertines.”

On the right, the philosophy is that we should structure society and our laws to best reflect our faith. Therefore, when someone on the right sins, it’s “hypocrite!”

It’s easier to avoid being called a hypocrite, if you don’t set any moral boundaries…

Thekla:

I have to disagree with you. The more I have looked at religion and politics and the way they use each other, the more I have come to believe that a lot of people on the left are deeply but not overtly spiritual. And I think that because it isn’t overt, others will say they don’t believe in God.

Conversely, a lot of people on the right are publicly spiritual but shallow in implementation. It’s the falseness that grates on nerves. I think that’s why we are constantly shocked to see public figures who portray religiosity getting themselves into trouble with scandals and stuff like that. We probably shouldn’t be shocked at all.

 

[Geldain]

rlg94086:

It’s easier to avoid being called a hypocrite, if you don’t set any moral boundaries…

amen!!!

 

[Troy7]

OMG! Thekla you hit the nail on the head!

Most of the Republican politicians ARE overtly spiritual…ie…wearing their faith on their sleeves while being SHALLOW in their implementation of putting that faith into ACTION…and people fall for this time and time again.

 

[Liberalsaved]

I personally think they should kick out everyone who lied at all or benefitted from a lie in order to get in here from another country. Including people who changed their names. Or falsified documents. Like almost all the people processed through Ellis Island that many so-called actual Americans are descended from.

If they give them legal status it is hurting no one. It means they start paying taxes, and it also means they continue doing jobs that I have the oddest feeling most of you would refuse to do.

 

[Liberalsaved]

Thekla:

I have to disagree with you. The more I have looked at religion and politics and the way they use each other, the more I have come to believe that a lot of people on the left are deeply but not overtly spiritual. And I think that because it isn’t overt, others will say they don’t believe in God.

Conversely, a lot of people on the right are publicly spiritual but shallow in implementation. It’s the falseness that grates on nerves. I think that’s why we are constantly shocked to see public figures who portray religiosity getting themselves into trouble with scandals and stuff like that. We probably shouldn’t be shocked at all.

This kind of critical thinking shocks me in a very good way. Bravo, bravo. Spirituality isn’t a horse and pony show to be used for political benefit.

 

[Geldain]

Troy7:

Most of the Republican politicians ARE overtly spiritual…ie…wearing their faith on their sleeves while being SHALLOW in their implementation of putting that faith into ACTION

Evidence of this is?

 

[Liberalsaved]

Geldain:

Evidence of this is?

Attacking a country for a reason it has nothing to do with and for false evidence and causes, then lying and changing the story when it comes out. Just for one.

 

[Geldain]

Liberalsaved:

Attacking a country for a reason it has nothing to do with and for false evidence and causes, then lying and changing the story when it comes out. Just for one.

You referring to some obscure conflict in Africa? Nothing like that has happened in the US or with our allies I am aware of. Or were you referring to the US and NATO actions in Kosovo perhaps?

 

[Thekla]

Liberalsaved:

Attacking a country for a reason it has nothing to do with and for false evidence and causes, then lying and changing the story when it comes out. Just for one.

Here’s perhaps an even more appropriate example. Tom Delay, who declares himself at just about every turn to be a man of faith, led the kill of the wage/immigration legislation in 2000 for the Mariana Islands.

The Mariana Islands (an Abramoff client) are a US commonwealth (whatever that is) and Delay went on a junket there and declared everything fine. Then he killed the legislation in the House. In the late 90’s, there was a government investigation (ours) that found accounts of forced prostitution and forced abortions. And then there is the fact that they have no minimum wage.

Where’s the implementation of faith from Mr. Delay when it comes to the Mariana Islands?

As it pertains to the illegal immigration argument, our corporations and our Congress have encouraged these people to come to this country. Many of them are exploited and made the scapegoats for our own problems.

A. There are 6 million people who have lost their employer health insurance since 2000 and 3 million more children have no health care.

B. The national debt has gone up 3 trillion dollars since 2000.

C. 50% of the country earns $25,000/year or less.

We have much bigger problems than illegal immigration; we have morally bankrupt representation.

 

[Geldain]

Thekla:

Here’s perhaps an even more appropriate example. Tom Delay, who declares himself at just about every turn to be a man of faith, led the kill of the wage/immigration legislation in 2000 for the Mariana Islands.

The Mariana Islands (an Abramoff client) are a US commonwealth (whatever that is) and Delay went on a junket there and declared everything fine. Then he killed the legislation in the House. In the late 90’s, there was a government investigation (ours) that found accounts of forced prostitution and forced abortions. And then there is the fact that they have no minimum wage.

Where’s the implementation of faith from Mr. Delay when it comes to the Mariana Islands?

No link again? How sad.

As it pertains to the illegal immigration argument, our corporations and our Congress have encouraged these people to come to this country. Many of them are exploited and made the scapegoats for our own problems.

Especially all of those illegal immigrants who were *physically dragged across the border against their will *to work at jobs they A) should never have been given access to and B) never legally should have worked or be working in the US.

A. There are 6 million people who have lost their employer health insurance since 2000 and 3 million more children have no health care.

Not having insurance does not = no health care. This is a canard the American left has been preaching since Clinton 1st ran for office in 1992. Then there were 30 million US citizens without health insurance. 37 million when he left office.

B. The national debt has gone up 3 trillion dollars since 2000.

Not unusual for the debt to go up during war time as a percentage of our GDP.

C. 50% of the country earns $25,000/year or less.

Where’s you get this stat from? Another instance where a link to validate a claim would be helpful and give credibility to an argument. Fortunately, I keep a link to the US Dept of Labor handy

When you have the facts and do the math the truth is easy to see

We have much bigger problems than illegal immigration; we have morally bankrupt representation.

I concur. From where I sit, the American electorate has been steadily dealing with this issue since 1994 by removing the party who invented moral bankruptcy from national power.

 

[Thekla]

Geldain:

No link again?

Just google “Tom Delay Mariana Islands forced abortion.”

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Thekla:

Just google “Tom Delay Mariana Islands forced abortion.”

I can see it now…“those are all left wing sources, give us something we can believe, like a FOXNews story.”

 

[Geldain]

Thekla:

Just google “Tom Delay Mariana Islands forced abortion.”

Why won’t you just post a link to one of those extreme leftist/liberal web sites that detail this allegation?

 

[Geldain]

LCMS_No_More:

I can see it now…“those are all left wing sources, give us something we can believe, like a FOXNews story.”

Or NBC or the Washington Times or USA Today even

Lemme guess, you won’t belive a story is real/valid if it’s posted on Fox News?