Another man dies in police custody after disturbing video

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You made it a point of stating that police officers in Minnesota are 13 times more likely to shoot/kill Blacks than whites (no mention of Latinos) and now claim that the 70% increase in crime has nothing to do with it?

Are you implying that that difference is a result of RACISM ONLY and that the cops who are shooting Blacks are only white??

Note: And you still haven’t provided links or anything that could support your responses. Could you please do so!
 
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I actually did provide links, just yesterday, either this thread or another for the rate of shooting.

But you need to back up and kindly stop putting words in my mouth. Did I mention any crime spike?

No. Another poster did. In what seems to me a hijack of the discussion. The stats for police brutality go way back, across years of spikes AND declines of crime. The racism of the MPD is so ingrained it’s endemic and it starts with the president of the police union, Kroll.
 
My problem is not with the statistical rate of shooting by cops per se, but you’re response which implied racism as the main reason vis a vis police shootings of Blacks, which you have not provided links or data for.

And if police brutality and racism in the MPD go back along way (and I don’t deny it does exist) then it shouldn’t be hard to find links/data.

Note: There has been no discussion of why other than racism that cops shoot black men 13 times more than whites in Minnesota.
 
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josie_L said:
And if police brutality and racism in the MPD go back along way (and I don’t deny it does exist) then it shouldn’t be hard to find links/data.
Click to expand...
Data tells you about disparities and rates of deaths in one group vs another as proportionality. These are indicators but do not tell you human motives. For that, you need to look at the history of the department in its relations to its own police who are black, as well as shared opinions of the members therein. For example, the charge that Kroll has harshly punished black cops and denied them promotion. Whereas white cops with the same issues and worse have been promoted. The fact that the chief of police, who is black himself, led a lawsuit against Kroll alleging racism.

Here is a piece on Kroll that lists multiple instances of his racism on display.

theintercept.com

Minneapolis Police Union President: “I’ve Been Involved in Three Shootings Myself, and Not a One of Them Has Bothered Me”

In April, Lt. Bob Kroll said that more than half of his board “have been involved in armed encounters.”
theintercept.com theintercept.com
 
Thank you, but the link provided although helpful to an extent (with regard to Kroll) doesn’t really focus on the issue at hand, i.e., the disparity between cop shootings of Blacks and whites and the factors therein influencing this discrepancy.

For example, were the cop shootings involving both armed and unarmed assailants? If armed, how many cop shootings were a result of self defense? What was the racial composition of the cops shooting Blacks? What are the statistical figures of criminal activity by race in Minnesota? Where are the cop shootings happening, i.e., in which communities and why???

Because as you said human motive is harder to decipher, answering these questions are not superfluous but necessary to reach a fair conclusion.

404 - Page Not Found | FOX 5 San Diego & KUSI News

www.kusi.com www.kusi.com
 
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Yes, and there are studies to that effect. I can search them out later, but I am posting between work meetings and making trips to donating materials to community drives for food and rebuilding. So you may have to do your own research if you’re interested. I’m already satisfied with the evidence I’ve seen myself that there’s a systemic racist problem within the MPD. Thus, why I support defunding the MPD and a complete rebuild.
 
Right, so, the 4 policemen appear to all be from distinct ethnic backgrounds. I have seen their picture.

Also, apparently, Hennepin County EMS gave them some training in this hold.

At least, a big part of this case, is that the knee-hold was even approved and this article seems to say, there is an amount of city approval too, so that goes to the top. I think it is in this article.


Okay, maybe that hold could be used in certain cases, where there is a real danger to the officers. From what I saw, there really wasn’t that kind of danger. I see a civil suit probably being successful in this. Criminal court might be more challenging.
 
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Thanks that would be appreciated. I’ll try in the meantime to do my own research.
 
LAW & THE COURTS

There Is No Epidemic of Racist Police Shootings​

By HEATHER MAC DONALD

July 31, 2019 1:54 PM

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Greg Derr/The Patriot Ledger via Reuters)

A new study debunks a common myth.

The Democratic presidential candidates have revived the anti-police rhetoric of the Obama years. Joe Biden’s criminal-justice plan promises that after his policing reforms, black mothers and fathers will no longer have to fear when their children “walk[] the streets of America” — the threat allegedly coming from cops, not gangbangers. President Barack Obama likewise claimed during the memorial for five Dallas police officers killed by a Black Lives Matter–inspired assassin in July 2016 that black parents were right to fear that their child could be killed by a police officer whenever he “walks out the door.” South Bend mayor Pete Buttigieg has said that police shootings of black men won’t be solved “until we move policing out from the shadow of systemic racism.” Beto O’Rourke claims that the police shoot blacks “solely based on the color of their skin.”

A new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences demolishes the Democratic narrative regarding race and police shootings, which holds that white officers are engaged in an epidemic of racially biased shootings of black men. It turns out that white officers are no more likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot black civilians. It is a racial group’s rate of violent crime that determines police shootings, not the race of the officer. The more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that members of that racial group will be shot by a police officer. In fact, if there is a bias in police shootings after crime rates are taken into account, it is against white civilians, the study found.
 
Hello poster Boatswain2pa. The scenario “if a white drunk driver strikes and kills a black person is that racist?” Does bring up some questions.

Let’s say it was simply a result of his choice to drink and the victim happening to be in his path. In that case I would not say that it was a case of him being racist.

On the other hand let’s say this same drunk driver had a previous dui’s resulting in classes, weekend jail, and maybe even loss of his license. Let’s say the judge who gave him these sentences was all the while sentencing black defendants to lengthy jail sentences for drug related offenses such as possession or intent to distribute based on how much of a substance was in possession. But that judge at the same time felt multiple chances were indicated for our white dui driver. In that sense systemic racism would have contributed to the death of either a black or white victim. Of course this is not theoretical as black defendants have routinely been sentenced more harshly for nonviolent drug offenses than white dui defendants who endanger lives.

Let’s back it up even further and say the judge is just following what the law prescribes. In that case we might say systemic racism infects our laws, lawmakers, and the people who vote for them, and it hurts both black and white people.
 
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Hello poster “pnewton.” Your statement “of course white people are arrested and go to prison for drug possession” is accurate but I doubt it addresses the point being made. White people are more likely to use all types of drugs than black people, however black people are more likely to go to prison for drug use.
 
Having personally been in fights and been choked, i can’t imagine anyone who has been in any kind of physical altercation honestly believing that a knee to the neck is anything but a way to punish and hurt someone who’s already under control.
You cant keep someone down by kneeling on their neck unless they’ve already been incapacitated. You also have very limited control over the damage you’re inflicting because you’d be using a knee as oppossed to something like a hand. The fact that is an “approved” hold might effect the legal consequences but that just tells you how messed up the legal system is because it’s a heinous and stupid technique. Anyone using it knows what they’re doing and it’s wrong.
 
Police Body Cam footage has not been released yet. I am hearing it does exist but probably won’t come out until the trial. Floyd stood at 6’6", what if there was a physical altercation? And what if he was on a mixture of drugs in his body. Some of this has come out, some is still unknown… but it really shows a trial hopefully will sort this out. I think I heard he did have drugs in his system but I don’t care to misstate what it was.

What if it was some speed like drug? Methamphetamine or something? A lot to be determined.
 
None of what you are speculating would justify the aggregious conduct of the police. We’ve seen enough to know he was subdued for several minutes with a knee on his neck.
 
Does him being on drugs or being 6’6 make a difference to you? I dont think victims’ height or being intoxicated should be considered mitigating factors when it comes to evaluating whether the decision to murder them was ethically sound.
 
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As i asked about whether these facts matter to her, and stated my opinion on them, I am clearly not “adverse” to talking about them.
 
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