Apparitions - Deceptions of Satan?

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Eden:
We are talking about apparitions that are approved by the Church.
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Believe me… I have had long debates that the “Lady of Nations” is Church-approved, because of the support of that local bishop. But, I would respectfuly plead, we not go there again…
 
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Writer:
Believe me… I have had long debates that the “Lady of Nations” is Church-approved, because of the support of that local bishop. But, I would respectfuly plead, we not go there again…
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Local bishops can support anything but that does not mean they are correct. Has the Vatican approved this apparition? Not that I am aware of. Using questionable “apparitions” to discredit all apparitions is not useful for determining the legitimacy of those that are approved.

There are many miracles that people have claimed have happenend to them - like on those fundamentalist kinds of shows where people fall down with the spirit and then “can walk again”. Should I use those fake healings that have been proven staged as examples of how miracles cannot happen at all?
 
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myfavoritmartin:
The direction I am leading to is this, are apparitions a deception of satan? I say that it is more likely the work of the deciever, as opposed to our maker by simply stating some inconsistencies.
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Those inconsistencies you mentioned aren’t very revealing. Different people can percieve the same exact event differently. I would agree with you that not all apparitions are from God that’s why the Catholic Church investigates them.
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myfavoritmartin:
God is perfect and if he moved his sun wouldn’t people other than fatima have seen it. whereas the deciever may have polluted the eyes and minds of those at fatima.
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lol… If everyone on the sunny side of the planet witnessed the event wouldn’t that imply an astronomical event and not a miracle? Yes, God is perfect, but the human intellect, human perception is not.
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myfavoritmartin:
Another explanation may be in astrological study, I will research this a little bit but my guess is there may be certain solar things that happen at diffrent times that could have left an impression on the people of fatima.
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Solar phenomena don’t occur over one geographic area. A solar eclipse for example may not be visible to everyone on the planet, but they do follow a “band” that is visible to folks there. Never has there been a solar event visible to one tiny geographic area on earth.
 
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Writer:
Well, I have a problem with some apparitions–Lady of Nations, for example–and I recently learned of some grave concerns regarding an apparition I always held to be true from a reliable forum member. I try to give them a wide berth myself, but I am not going to limit God by saying they don’t happen. Who are we to say," Now, now, God. You mustn’t do that!" That’s ridiculous. I think there are certainly valid apparitions, but the problem comes in discerning the true from the false–since lies can sometimes be given as half-truths, which are hard to spot unless you know your Bible. Unfortunately, many times it seems that my fellow Catholics want to believe in apparitions so badly that they lay aside their critical thinking a bit.
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Completely agree with you here. I think what people think are apparitions are many times whims of fancy. For example the hubble telescope image, or the 9/11 image. That stuff wasn’t even catholic, but mass media playing on peoples predisposition. Yet my SIL thinks they are real and she is pretty anti catholic. She doesn’t believe in apparitions but believes that is Mary in those pictures.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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mumof5:
Any Marian vision is from the devil. There is nothing to support anyone but angels as messengers and no biblical references that support such apparitions.
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Amen!
 
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myfavoritmartin:
This one gets me, my question is this… why is there never any protestant or other christian sects that have had mary apparitions?
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I feel like making a funny. I really do!
 
The crowd at fatima may have been trying or expecting to see signs in the sun, as similar sightings had been reported in the weeks leading up to the apparition. On that basis I believes that the crowd saw what it wanted to see.
 
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julebenn:
Amen!
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Weaksauce.
why is there never any protestant or other christian sects that have had mary apparitions?
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First, why do you assume that apparitions appear soley to Catholics? They’ve appeared to people of all religions and worldviews. So some Protestants may have been in some of those audiences.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
This one gets me, my question is this… why is there never any protestant or other christian sects that have had mary apparitions?
At least none that I’m aware of.
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I shall answer my own question on this… Catholics are the only and true church why would apparitions of Mary show up to protestants since they are anethema. Christ in all his true glory would never try to appear through Mary to a protestant (would he?) because they only believe in the word of god and salvation by faith, and not the “mother church”. It is all making sense. So in summary there is no way apparitions can be a work of the devil.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
The crowd at fatima may have been trying or expecting to see signs in the sun, as similar sightings had been reported in the weeks leading up to the apparition. On that basis I believes that the crowd saw what it wanted to see.
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Um… Have you read the account? The folks there may have come to Fatima expecting a miracle, but they didn’t know it involved the sun until after the miracle started. Those that did not witness the miracle of the sun found themselves and the ground dry even though it had been overcast and raining prior to the miacle. You mention that there were similar sightings leading up to the miracle of the sun; can you provide a source?
 
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Wildgraywolf:
Um… Have you read the account? The folks there may have come to Fatima expecting a miracle, but they didn’t know it involved the sun until after the miracle started. Those that did not witness the miracle of the sun found themselves and the ground dry even though it had been overcast and raining prior to the miacle. You mention that there were similar sightings leading up to the miracle of the sun; can you provide a source?
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Kevin McClure (1983) The Evidence for Visions of the Virgin Mary Aquarian Press,
 
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havemercy:
Weaksauce.

First, why do you assume that apparitions appear soley to Catholics? They’ve appeared to people of all religions and worldviews. So some Protestants may have been in some of those audiences.
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I will respectfully ask you to point a mary apparition recorded by a protestant.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
I shall answer my own question on this… Catholics are the only and true church why would apparitions of Mary show up to protestants since they are anethema. Christ in all his true glory would never try to appear through Mary to a protestant (would he?) because they only believe in the word of god and salvation by faith, and not the “mother church”. It is all making sense. So in summary there is no way apparitions can be a work of the devil.
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Hmmm… Condescending?
 
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mumof5:
The Transfiguration has no bearing on any visions since then. None at all. Try again.
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Why not? An apparition involves a “dead” person (though a person in Heaven enjoying the Presence of the Trinity is infinatly more alive than anyone of us) to give a message from God to someone on earth.

The passage shows two “dead” people (although Elijah never died) appearing to people on earth, Peter, James and John, alongside Jesus.
If God has formed this HUGE gap between those in this life, and those in the next, then why would he allow them to appear to the apostles? After all, Jesus clearly wanted the 3 to see Elijah and Moses, otherwise
1 They wouldn’t have appeared in the first place
2 Jesus would not have brought the three apostles to the place where he was Transfigured.

Also, Elijah and Moses DID serve as messengers and as witnesses to the three apostles. By appearing alongside Jesus, they showed that Jesus was supported by the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah) and is greater than them as well. They may not have said anything directly to the apostles, but their mere presence likely spoke volumes to them.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
I will respectfully ask you to point a mary apparition recorded by a protestant.
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I don’t know any trustworthy sources, nor would I know where to look. I suppose I could use Google or Wikipedia, however, such means are unlikely to yield acurate data.
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Wildgraywolf:
Hmmm… Condescending?
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Perhaps. But indeed, his question is one of interest! Why hasn’t God made it clear to Protestants (by miracles such as Marian apparitions) that Mary is who His church says she is?

Perhaps, in general, they would call it a work of satan…The likely response.

Rather, the Catholic Church must act as the catalyst for conversion. In charity, hope and faith; and in the name of the most Blessed Trinity; guided by His most Holy Spirit; we must love our separated bretheren enough to correct them. The Body and Church of Christ is a revelation in itself.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
The direction I am leading to is this, are apparitions a deception of satan? I say that it is more likely the work of the deciever, as opposed to our maker by simply stating some inconsistencies. God is perfect and if he moved his sun wouldn’t people other than fatima have seen it. whereas the deciever may have polluted the eyes and minds of those at fatima.
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Have you read the book of Joshua? In the book of Joshua, the israelites were fighting, and the day was nearing an end, and the battle was not yet over. Joshua called upon God to stop the Sun in the sky, and the book of Joshua says that the sun stopped in the sky, and did not move untill a winner had been declared. Now, if God really stopped the Sun, the earth would have stopped spinning, and virtually everyone would have been thrown off the earth, due to the laws of intertia.
My point is, God is not bound by the laws of physics. God invented physics.
 
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havemercy:
Perhaps. But indeed, his question is one of interest! Why hasn’t God made it clear to Protestants (by such a miracle) that Mary is who His church says she is?

Perhaps they would call it a work of satan.
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Look at Jesus in the Bible. He didn’t do miracles to prove His identity to people. The people He healed already believed that He had the power to heal. In a place where people did not believe in Him, He did not perform miracles.
 
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