Archbishop Warns Obama: You’ll Cause 'Conflict Between Church and State of Enormous Proportions’

[rlg94086]

Your marginalization of the natural instinct to reproduce is somewhat naive in my opinion.

It is not a sinful thing whatsoever. But rather a very powerful primal gift of God. That some people’s sexual polarity is wired backwards, does not lessen its power on them, nor make them evil for acting on their instincts like their correctly wired heterosexuals do every day, free of discrimination and association with evil.

The natural instinct to reproduce is extremely powerful as an objective fact of nature.

It is neither evil or satanic.

jomoco

Homosexual acts are from an instinct to reproduce? Well, sort of…they are a disordered desire. The proper desire is from the natural instinct God gave us to reproduce. Homosexual acts, as well as masturbatory acts can’t reproduce. That is exactly what makes them disordered. They are contrary to our God-given natural instincts.

When someone experiences a disordered, sinful desire, they are to resist it using self-control. Self-mastery is the way to go. You don’t have to be like an animal.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Are you quite sure you want to study the subject of pedophilia and church objectively my friend?

jomoco

jo:

What makes any of you so dead certain that homosexuals and their practices are anymore evil than a person with an inherited disease?

What makes you so sure pediophiles and their practices are any more evil than any other person who was “born that way?”

Sure, go ahead and start a new thread. In the meantime, could you just answer the question?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Your marginalization of the natural instinct to reproduce is somewhat naive in my opinion.

It is not a sinful thing whatsoever. But rather a very powerful primal gift of God. That some people’s sexual polarity is wired backwards, does not lessen its power on them, nor make them evil for acting on their instincts like their correctly wired heterosexual brethren do every day, free of discrimination and association with evil.

The natural instinct to reproduce is extremely powerful as an objective fact of nature.

It is neither evil or satanic.

jomoco

So are humans no better than animals?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Not the Church itself. Francis Bacon, Rene Descartes, and Galileo are considered the originators of the scientific method. If they were Catholics, then one could certainly say “Catholic scientists.”

The Church subsidized the scientific method. The Church has always been in favor of educating her members. Sapienza University was founded by the Church so that Catholics could learn. Catholics run more private schools and places of higher education than any other private organization. Probably more than any single government.

Note the word “grudgingly.”

Saw that. Who cares? She accepted. “grudgingly” is jo’s personal opinion. He’s obviously anti-Catholic biased.

I, by the way,** sometimes** disagree with Christine on such things lest anyone think we’re in cahoots, conservative and liberal, in a good-cop, bad-cop sort of way.

 

[qui_est_ce]

So are humans no better than animals?

I need to reproduce right now. My instinct is killing me!!!

 

[vz71]

So are humans no better than animals?

Attempting to strip away what makes us better then animals is the worst kind of inhumanity.

It is also the worst judgement of all. It is the judgement that says we are incapable of mastery of ourselves and mastery over our desires.

It is ironic that the very people claiming the church to be judgemental of people should be themselves judging people in the worst possible way.

 

[jomoco]

So are humans no better than animals?

Only mankind was made in God’s image.

So the more pertinent and objective question, in terms of Christianity would be, what would Christ Himself do to acting homosexual sinners unable to resist their flawed instincts?

Denounce them?

Or cure them of their afflictions, as He has promised to do for all of us who believe in His name, and accept His divine sovereignty as Lord of Heaven?

Is a homosexual’s sins when acted upon that much alien and different than each disciple’s that denied knowledge of Christ, repeatedly, while He lived?

Perhaps that’s why vengeance is best left in Divine hands according to some Christians?

jomoco

 

[scipio337]

Only mankind was made in God’s image.

So the more pertinent and objective question, in terms of Christianity would be, what would Christ Himself do to acting homosexual sinners unable to resist their flawed instincts?

Tell them “You’re not to blame for acting on your 'powerful primal gift of God” instincts", or

Forgive them, and tell them to “go, and sin no more”.

I would probably vote the latter.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Only mankind was made in God’s image.

So the more pertinent and objective question, in terms of Christianity would be, what would Christ Himself do to acting homosexual sinners unable to resist their flawed instincts?

Denounce them?

Or cure them of their afflictions, as He has promised to do for all of us who believe in His name, and accept His divine sovereignty as Lord of Heaven?

Is a homosexual’s sins when acted upon that much alien and different than each disciple’s that denied knowledge of Christ, repeatedly, while He lived?

Perhaps that’s why vengeance is best left in Divine hands according to some Christians?

jomoco

Just because they have flawed instincts doesn’t mean we have to give them liscense to act on said insticts. Big Difference.

I want to have sex all the time with women. But I don’t…

 

[vz71]

So the more pertinent and objective question, in terms of Christianity would be, what would Christ Himself do to acting homosexual sinners unable to resist their flawed instincts?

So homosexual sinners are unable to resist their flawed instincts??

This is another horrible judgement upon mankind that you are making.
Well, actually it is a judgement against homosexuals specificly.

If you wish to have your arguments taken seriously, you may want to refrain from passing judgement upon other people.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

So homosexual sinners are unable to resist their flawed instincts??

This is another horrible judgement upon mankind that you are making.
Well, actually it is a judgement against homosexuals specificly.

If you wish to have your arguments taken seriously, you may want to refrain from passing judgement upon other people.

He’s basically saying that we’re “better” than animals but then reverts back saying that we are no better.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Just because they have flawed instincts doesn’t mean we have to give them liscense to act on said insticts. Big Difference.

I want to have sex all the time with women. But I don’t…

The virtue of being young. Whereas I, nearly 70, think about my lady loves and recall the lyrics from Gigi, "How strong you were, how young and gay, A prince of love in every way. "

“Ah yes! I remember it well.”

 

[jomoco]

So homosexual sinners are unable to resist their flawed instincts??

This is another horrible judgement upon mankind that you are making.
Well, actually it is a judgement against homosexuals specificly.

If you wish to have your arguments taken seriously, you may want to refrain from passing judgement upon other people.

Why would Christ not heal the homosexual, the same as He healed the leper and the lame?

These are things divine hands only are worthy to judge and act upon.

Do you deny that all of us are sinners in sore need of Christ’s forgiveness and mercy?

jomoco

 

[scipio337]

Why would Christ not heal the homosexual, the same as He healed the leper and the lame?

These are things divine hands only are worthy to judge and act upon.

Do you deny that all of us are sinners in sore need of Christ’s forgiveness and mercy?

jomoco

Why would he need to be “healed”?

“It is not a sinful thing whatsoever. But rather a very powerful primal gift of God… It is neither evil or satanic.”

 

[jomoco]

Why would he need to be “healed”?

“It is not a sinful thing whatsoever. But rather a very powerful primal gift of God… It is neither evil or satanic.”

Because he too is flawed like the rest of us.

jomoco

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why would Christ not heal the homosexual, the same as He healed the leper and the lame?

These are things divine hands only are worthy to judge and act upon.

Do you deny that all of us are sinners in sore need of Christ’s forgiveness and mercy?

jomoco

I’m confused. Are you saying homosexuals are sinning when they commit homosexual acts?

 

[rlg94086]

I’m confused. Are you saying homosexuals are sinning when they commit homosexual acts?

Seems that way…and yet, their sin is to be treated differently.

 

[scipio337]

Because he too is flawed like the rest of us.

jomoco

Hmm, but that would be in line with what others are saying.

You argued the opposite, that “It is not a sinful thing whatsoever. But rather a very powerful primal gift of God… It is neither evil or satanic.”

 

[qui_est_ce]

Seems that way…and yet, their sin is to be treated differently.

When I ask for forgiveness, I do it with the intention to not sin again. I acknowledge my sin before the Lord.

I don’t go around telling everybody that I’m just a powerless person, I can’t help it, I’m too weak. IOW, I don’t flaunt my sins.

 

[jomoco]

Hmm, but that would be in line with what others are saying.

You argued the opposite, that “It is not a sinful thing whatsoever. But rather a very powerful primal gift of God… It is neither evil or satanic.”

How can the act of procreation, or even the instinct driving it, be evil?

The sin we are all guilty of is our sore lack of God’s knowledge, due to our dis-obedience of His instructions in Eden, that led directly to our expulsion and subsequent millenias of sin, and mortal returning to the dust from which we were formed, by God.

Our understanding of God’s purposes and reasons are lacking at best. Which is why divine beings like Christ, whose return promises to clarify these Godly matters for us, are also far superiorly fit and worthy to undertake the grave task of judging and punishing sinners, whether knowing of their sin, or otherwise.

I trust in a divine God, not the words, actions or writings of flawed men assuming they know His will.

jomoco