Archbp Vigano praises Trump, warns America

[billsherman]

the extraordinary battle that He is preparing to fight against the demonic forces of the deep state

Kind of disturbing to see the Archbishop echoing the Qanon nuts. His previous association with Italian neo-fascists, and now this is pretty bad.

The Church has a tragic history of prelates and priests finding common cause with ultra-right wing extremists. It would be terrible if we’re seeing it happen again.

 

[fide]

History shows that all on the “left” (from liberals to progressives to socialists to full-bore communists) tend to group ALL who oppose their direction to the left, as “extremists of the right” - fascists, racists, (blank-phobes of every kind, up to and including nazis. BOTH of these extremes are mere reflections of each other, merely different suits of silk dressing the same pig, merely paths to dictatorship of, by and for the “superior” ruling class of the elite. They hate each other because they hate themselves and all mankind. Theirs are roads to death.

The only road to life, is the one that leads to God.

Augustine had it concisely right: there are ultimately two “cities”, peopled by two citizens, the city of man, and the city of God. He wrote, in The City of God — Book XIV, Chapter 28—Of the Nature of the Two Cities, the Earthly and the Heavenly:

Accordingly, two cities have been formed by two loves: the earthly by the love of self, even to the contempt of God; the heavenly by the love of God, even to the contempt of self. The former, in a word, glories in itself, the latter in the Lord. For the one seeks glory from men; but the greatest glory of the other is God, the witness of conscience.

The one lifts up its head in its own glory; the other says to its God, “Thou art my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.” [Ps. 3: 3] In the one, the princes and the nations it subdues are ruled by the love of ruling; in the other, the princes and the subjects serve one another in love, the latter obeying, while the former take thought for all. The one delights in its own strength, represented in the persons of its rulers; the other says to its God, “I will love Thee, O Lord, my strength.” [Ps. 18:1]

The left and the right extremes are equally the enemy of the People of God, because they both love self over God.

 

[Victoria33]

Are those so critical, have they never voted for pro-choice politicians? Unfortunately, it appears some have, so look at your words if one thinks they are so perfect to criticize others.

 

[whatistrue]

History shows that all on the “left” (from liberals to progressives to socialists to full-bore communists) tend to group ALL who oppose their direction to the left, as “extremists of the right” - fascists, racists, (blank-phobes of every kind, up to and including nazis.

No, history shows no such thing. If the group is more than a relative handful, the use of “all” in describing them is ridiculous. Some on the left demonize the right as a group. Some on the right demonize those on the left as a group. This behavior is not limited to political persuasion.

The left and the right extremes are equally the enemy of the People of God, because they both love self over God.

And this, in my view, is exactly what DJT shows (loving self over God) by his actions and words on a regular basis. So how is he the “…greatest defender of the supreme values of Christian civilization…” again?

 

[SeekSalvation]

Inquisitor85:

I’m thinking of starting a drinking game, every time the “deep state” or “new world order” or similar phrases are mentioned take a shot.

You know, there really is a demonic fallen angel at work in this world - a real satan - if you can trust Jesus, believe Him: satan exists and is at work NOW. And he has angelic followers. And there IS a “deep state”, and there are lovers of the Lie who are planning “a new world order.”

Satan’s greatest accomplishment is to make a joke of his very existence. And the existence of those he leads in the world today.

The final proof that his “joke” is no joke at all promises to be very bloody. Read the apocalyptic chapters in the Gospel, and the Book of Revelation. If you can believe Holy Scripture.
It’s really not funny at all.

Not to mention Angels are a dogma of the Church. Both Righteous and Fallen. Catholics are required to believe.

 

[billsherman]

History shows that all on the “left” (from liberals to progressives to socialists to full-bore communists) tend to group ALL who oppose their direction to the left, as “extremists of the right” - fascists, racists, (blank-phobes of every kind, up to and including nazis. BOTH of these extremes are mere reflections of each other, merely different suits of silk dressing the same pig, merely paths to dictatorship of, by and for the “superior” ruling class of the elite. They hate each other because they hate themselves and all mankind. Theirs are roads to death.

I’ve read this twice, and I can’t understand how it is supposed to comfort us.

The Archbishop has now publicly echoed (twice!) a key element of the Qanon conspiracy (which the US government recognizes as a domestic terrorism threat), and lent his support to a neo-fascist Italian organization that burned picture of Pope Francis.

It’s not difficult to see his activities as being suspiciously similar to those of other ultra-right wing Catholic clergy such as Fr. Coughlin. There is nothing comforting in that.

 

[fide]

If you didn’t hear it the first time, repeating it will be useless. People hear what they are listening for.

 

[fide]

I find truth very comforting, consistent, solid. The archbishop has learned some hard, troubling, deeply disturbing facts in his years working in the Church. Jesus did not promise a trouble-free life on this earth. Where did Truth “get Him”? The Cross. Where does the Cross “get us”? to eternal Life.

I recommend you listen to Jesus until you hear comfort, in the hard Truth:

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
Mat 10:36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
Mat 10:38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

 

[whatistrue]

If you didn’t hear it the first time, repeating it will be useless.

I read it fine. But it makes no sense given the actual situation, not the situation that those suffering from TWS claim.

People hear what they are listening for.

Some people (who will remain nameless for the moment) only hear what they want to have been said, not what was actually said. Like I said, TWS.

 

[billsherman]

I find truth very comforting, consistent, solid.

Qanon isn’t truth. It is precisely the opposite. Neo-fascism is not truth either.

People burning a picture of the Holy Father need to be condemned by Archbishops, not comforted.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

If we do not get this issue right, before God, we will never get any issue right, with God. Intentional murderers of the innocent are dead before God, no matter how “charitable” they may attempt to be in other matters. If they persist and continue to defend their “right” to kill innocent and defenseless persons, they are dead; their souls are without life. This crime is indefensible.

The Dems hold this “right” as dear, as precious, as non-negotiable, as “holy”. This is insane! They cannot be supported!

That’s understandable, but these praises or Trump are over the top.

Yes, and that is just a cheap shot, cheap slander. There is no cult of personality.

Trying to make Trump into kind of savior or defender shows a disordered attachement.

By the way I would vote for him and I am constistently pro-life.

 

[fide]

As do I, and without partisan blinders of any sort. He has promised to “drain the swamp”, but he rather imported his own pet alligators, among many other harmful actions, which is plain to see by anyone not blinded by Trump Worship Syndrome. It is more than “not Presidential” to encourage his supporters to attempt election fraud; it is more than “not Presidential” to repeat multiple lies that were proven as lies so many times that he now has his own unique category of “false” related to fact checking; it is more than “not Presidential” to imply that he may not accept the results of the election if it doesn’t suit him, or that he “deserves” a third term contrary to the Constitution.

You need a sense of humor to listen to Trump. He loves to set liberal’s hair on fire. It is funny, although also tragic that the country is so divided. The liberal/progressives take themselves sooooo seriously - to ridicule their phony and misplaced seriousness has a certain irony in it.

If the liberal/progressives could get serious about what IS serious, they would set aside their self-aggrandizing pomp and faux-indignation at him, and support him - and America could begin to heal and grow again.

 

[fide]

That’s understandable, but these praises or Trump are over the top.

So on the one hand we have “understandable” horror at the abomination of abortion and Biden running on a platform of full support for abortion, and on the other hand, praises of Trump that are over the top? Is THAT the dilemma of the Catholic voter today?

 

[Fauken]

and on the other hand, praises of Trump that are over the top? Is THAT the dilemma of the Catholic voter today?

When those praises are painting him out to be a prophet of God anointed like Cyrus, yes. You’re all but saying to not vote for Trump is to oppose God, and I’m not talking about votes for Biden. If you even vote third party for a pro life candidate, you apparently oppose God. That is over the top.

 

[twf]

Are those so critical, have they never voted for pro-choice politicians? Unfortunately, it appears some have, so look at your words if one thinks they are so perfect to criticize others.

On this thread I haven’t been critical of those who voted for Trump. I lauded his administrations actions to curb abortion. I criticized the narrative, presented by the archbishop and echoed by Fide etc., that Trump is the Lord’s chosen champion to save the world… no that is not an exaggeration…read what they’re saying. How is this not a cult of personality?

I don’t think anyone is saying that every Trump voter is part of a personality cult…that criticism is directly levied at those who insist he is God’s chosen ambassador to save the world.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

praises of Trump that are over the top? Is THAT the dilemma of the Catholic voter today?

I’m not talking about voting, I’m saying that these praises are not approproate.

 

[whatistrue]

You need a sense of humor to listen to Trump.

I have a very well developed sense of humor. I also have a well developed understanding of appropriate and inappropriate behavior. What I do not have is a strong enough stomach to ignore DJTs manifest unfitness for the office he currently holds and his elementary school level bullying tactics against anyone who does not share his inflated opinion of himself. Classic narcissist and bully.

 

[SeekSalvation]

fide:

History shows that all on the “left” (from liberals to progressives to socialists to full-bore communists) tend to group ALL who oppose their direction to the left, as “extremists of the right” - fascists, racists, (blank-phobes of every kind, up to and including nazis. BOTH of these extremes are mere reflections of each other, merely different suits of silk dressing the same pig, merely paths to dictatorship of, by and for the “superior” ruling class of the elite. They hate each other because they hate themselves and all mankind. Theirs are roads to death.

I’ve read this twice, and I can’t understand how it is supposed to comfort us.

The Archbishop has now publicly echoed (twice!) a key element of the Qanon conspiracy (which the US government recognizes as a domestic terrorism threat), and lent his support to a neo-fascist Italian organization that burned picture of Pope Francis.

It’s not difficult to see his activities as being suspiciously similar to those of other ultra-right wing Catholic clergy such as Fr. Coughlin. There is nothing comforting in that.

The bold statement above is not complete truth, or actually truth at all. “A” FBI memo warns QAnon poses potential terror threat. I do not follow this QAnon, nor know anything about them. But I do fact check everything I read now because of the Subjective Truth world we live in.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/fbi/455770-fbi-memo-warns-qanon-poses-a-potential-terror-threat-report

 

[Motherwit]

Julius_Caesar:

What’s really sad is that people aren’t seeing Vigano’s commentary for what it is: hero worship. And claim Trump is pro life when his handling of the virus was the opposite of that.

On the contrary, Julius, Archbishop Vigano has God for his Hero and it is God Whom he worships. It is God Who has given this Archbishop the wisdom to see the good President Trump has done in the last 4 years, especially his protection of the unborn, and now his seeking to protect babies born yet who can have their lives taken by doctors and mothers who desire those babies to die.

It becomes increasingly sad to see persons in this country and all over the world failing to recognize the horror of killing innocent and defenseless babies!. I believe Archbishop Vigano is absolutely correct in writing:

…I therefore join all the participants in this extraordinary celebration and all American Catholics, who see in President Donald Trump the greatest defender of the supreme values of Christian civilization: of life, from conception to natural death; of the natural family composed of one man and one woman and children; and of love for the homeland: One Nation under God! And, most importantly, he stands for defending the right to freely practice our Faith, thus allowing us more fully to honor God…

May God in His Mercy preserve and protect the USA enabling us to be “one nation under God”.

There are many good, holy, prayerful people all over the world defending the unborns right to life passionately who discern in Trump the biblical ‘wolf in sheeps clothing’ using our cause to further another agenda altogether.

1 Cor 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

 

[billsherman]

FBI memo warns QAnon poses potential terror threat

Sorry. The Archbishop has now echoed (twice!) a key element of a conspiracy theory that the FBI believes poses a potential domestic terrorism threat.

I think that’s a difference without a distinction myself, but I stand corrected. My apologies.