Are Mormons Protestant or their own thing?

[ELCore]

In my town (pop. about 800) there is a little church calling itself “The Church of Jesus Christ”. On the signboard outside it notes, “Headquarters, Monongahela, PA” (pop. about 4,000). It is one of the 500 or so off-shoots of LDS.

 

[gazelam]

I mean a domain of discourse guided by fact not feeling. When did I bring up Jesus walking on water. Moving the goal posts much?

How can Mormons can trace their baptism to St. John? You have a way of never answering questions. It’s quite annoying.

Perhaps I over assumed. Are you referring to St. John the Baptist or St. John the Apostle? Let’s go with the Baptist. Joseph Smith shared his account of receiving (along with Oliver Cowdery) authority to baptize from John the Baptist. So that’s the fact your your phrase of a “domain of discourse guided by fact not feeling”. In your opinion, what’s missing?

 

[rIz0]

Obviously, I’m referring to John the Baptist and surely you can see how Josephs testimony hardly qualifies as fact. So quite a bit is missing actually. Anything more substantive to offer? Also, my opinion isn’t what reduces your belief to absurdity.

 

[gazelam]

So quite a bit is missing actually. Anything more substantive to offer?

Sure. The Bible states several places that facts can be established by two or more witnesses.

1 Tim 5:19 Do not accept an accusation against a presbyter unless it is supported by two or three witnesses.

Deut 19:15 Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.

John 8:17 Even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men can be verified.

Both Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery (therefore, two witnesses) confirmed the account of John the Baptist appearing to them and conferring authority to them. Based on the criterion stated in scripture it’s fact. I hope this helps…

Also, my opinion isn’t what reduces your belief to absurdity.

So what then does reduce my belief to absurdity?

 

[rIz0]

Nope that doesn’t help in the slightest… and is pretty weak in the justificatory strength department. Is this how you establish facts in your life? Do you incorporate truths into your system of beliefs simply because two or more witnesses testified that an event happened. I truly hope you see the many negative implications this liberal interpretation of truth tracking would burden you with. Also, the passages you cited do not indicate that: fact can be established by two or more witnesses
At most they speak about what a credible charge would *minimally * require for it to carry any weight. Not sure how you extrapolated your definition of fact from these passages.

Oh there are many things that make your beliefs absurd. I know Mormons wear their obstinance as a badge of honor. As though the further you bury your head the more righteous you are. Objectively your faith fails to stand up against even weak criticism, that’s what makes your belief absurd.

Oh and I meant anything more substantive in the way of establishing that Mormons can trace their baptism to St. John. Goal post moved back

Do we have any other evidence to suggest this is the case?

 

[runningdude]

Mormon’s fall into the same category as Unitarians. They do not have a valid baptism, so they are not sacramental Christians, like most Protestants.

Mormons accept God the Father, and even accept Jesus as the Son of God - but they do not accept Jesus as God the Son.

 

[BT3241]

Lets not forget God the father is a completely different person in the Mormon faith and Satan is also Gods son - I could go on and on on how it is completely different then the Christian faith.
A friend of mine has a brother who is a Bishop in the Mormon faith - he said they are getting the paper work together in heaven for the end of the world and all sorts of crazy things - the have a very materialistic afterlife - apparently a women can’t get into Mormon heaven unless he husband allows it - I have never heard anything like it in my life its like they are making it up as they go along. I could go on and on.

 

[gazelam]

Nope that doesn’t help in the slightest… and is pretty weak in the justificatory strength department.

It wasn’t too weak for Jesus. John 8:18 I testify on my behalf and so does the Father who sent me.

Is this how you establish facts in your life? Do you incorporate truths into your system of beliefs simply because two or more witnesses testified that an event happened.

If someone shares a truth with me and then the Holy Ghost confirms it I’m good with it. How about you?

I truly hope you see the many negative implications this liberal interpretation of truth tracking would burden you with. Also, the passages you cited do not indicate that: fact can be established by two or more witnesses
At most they speak about what a credible charge would *minimally * require for it to carry any weight. Not sure how you extrapolated your definition of fact from these passages.

Jesus didn’t seem too concerns with the two witnesses approach.

Do we have any other evidence to suggest this is the case?

Such a what? A youtube video? What type of evidence would you personally accept in this case?

 

[rIz0]

You haven’t shown that Jesus prescribe we ought to track truth in the way you suggest we ought. You have not substantiated the claim that: facts can be established by two or more witnesses. All you have done is shown what is minimally required for a testimony to be minimally credible.

You’ve also added a premise to your formula for establishing truth:

Now it is a) that 2 or more witnesses testify to the event and 2) that the Holy Ghost confirms it.

This wasn’t your original prescription. It also doesn’t follow from the passages you have cited. So let’s assume I accepted that Josephs testimony was at minimum anything other than dubious. What might the Holy Ghost confirming that testimony look like? You obviously believe this to be true so per your formula the Holy Ghost must have confirmed it. How exactly did the Holy Ghost confirm this in you? Please be descriptive.

Again, Jesus isn’t telling us to incorporate truths into our lexicon of thinking simply because two or more witnesses testified that something happened.

As far as evidence, something that indicates that we ought to believe this is the case without a need to verify it via confirmation from the Holy Ghost. By your logic any person who has a genuine feeling in their hearts and believes that they are guided by the spirit is correct. Algorithmically, this is a recipe for disaster.

This is why the strength of your argument is so very weak. Also, how do we distinguish between two competing testimonies that do not square when both testimonies have met the criterion you have laid forth?

 

[DeusNobisAuxilium]

Yes. That is the group that followed William Bickerton.

 

[RuthAnne]

apparently a women can’t get into Mormon heaven unless he husband allows it

The Mormon VIP heaven is strange. The way I understand it, you have to be married to go to VIP heaven, once Joseph Smith stamps your passport. But if there are more men then women trying to get there, what happens to all the single men? And as I understand Mormonism, there are more men than women in heaven.

 

[Julie4]

Mormons are not Protestants.They follow the Book of Mormon and the Bible “insofar as it is translated correctly.” They believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers, that all good Mormon men go on to populate their own planet, that they become “Adam” gods, etc., etc. They like to portray themselves as mainline Christianity, but they couldn’t be further from mainline Christianity. There is no trinity in Mormanism. Mormans are, however, good, moral people and have good family values. I hope that this helps.

 

[RuthAnne]

Mormans are, however, good, moral people and have good family values. I hope that this helps.

Some are, some are not. They are regular people like everyone else.

 

[Padres1969]

While that’s true there is a fundamental difference that unites even the most “interesting” of independent minded Christians and the rest of Christianity (Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic alike). And that’s belief in the triune God; Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That core belief unites all Christians.

And it’s a belief that Mormons do not share. They have a fundamentally different understanding of the very nature of God.

 

[Legend]

You can say that again…

Mormons don’t believe in, or don’t worship, the creator God, the source of all things. They believe in a multiplicity of God’s! That a Mormon man, who has lived a good life, becomes a god, with worshippers, upon his death…

Most believe that he took his wife, or wives, to his own planet…and gets to populate this world, by their children, conceived thru ‘celestial sex’ are sent to a world, given bodies of flesh and bone, and are expected to populate said world.

No mention is made of the original God…the first creator, who set things in motion. One is only expected to worship and obey his immediate superior.

I believe it’s said that unmarried Mormons, otherwise worthy of the highest (celestial) heaven, are either given worthy women, or become ‘ministering angels’ who are subject to a worthy god. Young people are encouraged to marry…at any rate.

Mormon doctrine is now rare in the Book of Mormon. It seems to be used now to ‘Christianize’ Mormonism. None of the doctrines above come directly from the BOM or the Bible…but missionaries are encouraged to teach that they do. Both books, nowadays, are mainly used ti cherry-pick/make it look like they agree with Mormon doctrine as it is taught today.

I just say that I worship the God that has no creator…and I do.

To all Christians…God Bless! Hang on to what you believe!

To Mormons and other seekers…May your journey to the truth be a fruitful one!

 

[Julie4]

What I meant was that Mormans are taught to be moral. And yes, they are good and bad just like everybody else .

 

[gazelam]

I’ve been a Latter-day Saint my entire life.

…that all good Mormon men go on to populate their own planet

I’ve never heard of any man being promised their own planet in the teachings of my faith.

that they become “Adam” gods, etc., etc.

I’ve never heard of any man being promised to become an “Adam God” in the teachings of my faith.

There is no trinity in Mormanism.

True.

Mormans are, however, good, moral people and have good family values. I hope that this helps.

Thank for the very kind complement. Happy Easter!!

 

[RuthAnne]

I’ve never heard of any man being promised their own planet in the teachings of my faith.

Do you believe that you can become as God now is, which includes creating and presiding over another planet or planets?

 

[RuthAnne]

I’ve never heard of any man being promised to become an “Adam God” in the teachings of my faith.

Do you believe that you can become a God?

 

[Legend]

…notice how some people have become silent. Yes, it is said, I’m sure, that ‘man may become as god is now’. And that god once was, as man is now.

I’d ask the active Mormons here ‘how many gods are there?’ And note; I did NOT ask how many gods you worship, but how many gods exist! There’s a lot of ‘spin’ in Mormonism today.