Are you literally on fire if you go to hell?

  • Thread starter Thread starter pcordero
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
tonyrey said:
Balderdash! 🙂
Click to expand...
You uttered it, Tony. So, I guess you are an atheist now.
Then you may appreciate his insight and wisdom…
Click to expand...
To some extent, yes.
Do you live as if you exist for no reason whatsoever?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Life without words would have been nothing for a poet with his dedication to “the real language of men”.
Click to expand...
The ‘real language of men’ does not seem to consist of words.
Her faith and courage enabled her to survive in terrible circumstances.
Click to expand...
Alas, not long enough.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
…Thats okay so long as we can agree that its not a physical lake of fire; otherwise we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I think you’re making too strong of a separation between physical and spiritual. Humans are physical/spiritual beings. At the general resurrection, bodies will be restored in a transcendent state. There’s really no such thing as a “physical life” – that’s what materialism proposes (that life is simply a physical/chemical composite), but your signature nicely opposes that false idea.

We might even wonder if any fire itself is a “physical” thing. Is it really? One of the most common images in Scripture and in the mystical experiences of Saints is “fire”. Starting with Moses and the burning bush. Was that “physical” fire or something else.
Do we even know what fire is? What is the origin of fire? Didn’t God create the laws that made fire possible in the universe? The entire concept of something “burning” was created by God. Whether it’s burning gas in a star – or any other materials, God created it.

Additionally, whatever people suffer in Hell – they cannot have created it themselves. To an extent, we say they did – they created it by their sins.

But most people want to sin and not ever have to go to Hell. They convince themselves that there will be no Hell – so they can sin whatever way they want. That’s what a lot of atheists do. They don’t choose Hell directly – they just choose sin and then wish that there really is no justice or Hell at all at the end.

So, the fact that they will have to live on in a sinful condition of torment, is not something they originated as part of the fabric of life.
But the rest of what you said was interesting and not too far fetched. Although, it would have been better if you had said that God permits
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
belorg said:
Balderdash!
Click to expand...
Wishful thinking!
Then you may appreciate his insight and wisdom…
Click to expand...
To some extent, yes.
Click to expand...

To the extent of your scepticism - which is not clearly defined.
Do you live as if you exist for no reason whatsoever?
Click to expand...
Yes.[/quoteWhy are you attempting to be reasonable? :confused:
Life without words would have been nothing for a poet with his dedication to “the real language of men”.
Click to expand...
The ‘real language of men’ does not seem to consist of words.
Click to expand...

The strong silent men are often the ones who are not to be trusted… One of their weapons is secrecy.
Her faith and courage enabled her to survive in terrible circumstances.
Click to expand...
Alas, not long enough.
Click to expand...

Longer than a person with no beliefs or values…
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
DihydrogenOxide said:
That is a super liberal catholic interpretation at best, but more than likely a protestant interpretation.

You sound an awful lot like a Universalist.
Click to expand...
An equally facile remark would be “You sound like a Fundamentalist of the Chosen Few variety!” 🙂
 
belorg said:
Alas, not long enough.
Click to expand...
Anybody can die young. The fact she did proves nothing. She is memorable, not because she died young in a period where tens of millions did, but because she kept her psychological innocence, in a time when almost no one did.

We have no command over the entropy in our bodies. We have command only over our psyche.
 
reggieM said:
Ok, but it’s important to be careful with words.

A glorified physical being is a physical being … in a glorified state.

So, you’re agreeing that the effects of heaven occur on soul and body - on a spiritual/physical being.

The effects of hell would occur in the same way, right?
Click to expand...
The effects of hell would occur in quite a different way from the effects of heaven! The body wouldn’t be glorified for a start…
 
belorg said:
Well, I admit, there are thousands of Catholic Saints I do not knwo anything about. But then again, who does know everything about all of them. You don’t, and it does not matter to you.
Click to expand...
The lives of the saints teach a lot about the existence of God. True, I only know a small amount about the saints but I can see a variety of teachings and events that have to be answered. All it takes is for one, of hundreds and thousands of supernatural events of the saints to be true – and then that’s something to deal with. If one miracle is true – if just one of the thousands of saints was correct in his or her belief about the transforming power of God – then that will change everything.

One alternative is to simply dismiss it all as being false, without ever researching it.
But could you really say that you’re “certain” that all of those miracles are false?

If not, then you could say “I don’t know if the saints are true or not”.
No, Reggie, that is not part of the learning, that’s part of the indoctrination and amounts to brainwashing. And it is actually self-deception. I agree that we should be opene-minded, but that means we at all times have to look upon things from various perspectives, not just one.
Click to expand...
Catholic practice is part of the learning. Catholicism is a way of life. When you live the life, you also discover much more proof for the existence of God. If you ignore that evidence or have never looked for it (by never becoming proficient) – then how can you be certain that atheism is correct? You would be lacking essential knowledge.
if 1% to you is enough to convince you of its truth, then why would my knowledge not suffice to convince me of the opposite. Maybe I was lucky enough to find just that 1% that proves it wrong?
Click to expand...
Ok, but point I’m getting at is that there are an immense amount of evidence proving the existence of God. To be certain that atheism is true it’s important to investigate all of the evidence that supports the existence of God.

The two ideas are not the same, really. Atheism is a denial of the existence of God, in its essence. That’s basically what it is.
Catholicism is not, in its essence, a denial of Atheism. Catholicism proposes something positive and real – something to learn about and also to live and experience.
Well, He may love you, but He doesn’t seem to care a bit about me.
Click to expand...
I know it might not seem like it, but I believe many of the people you encounter of CAF are praying for you. You’re not just a non-entity to the Catholics here (or at least, most I hope).

I realize that may not help much to know that, but if we’ve received love and blessing from God, we want others to have it abundantly also.

Thanks for your thoughts and insights – I appreciate it.
 
tonyrey said:
The effects of hell would occur in quite a different way from the effects of heaven! The body wouldn’t be glorified for a start…
Click to expand...
Ok, not glorified – but still resurrected and restored to the integrity of the soul/body.

In what different way will the effects of hell occur than to the rewards given in heaven?

Where the body was used for sins of sensuality through one’s life, the effect in hell will be [___ what? ___] on the post-general resurrection person?
 
reggieM said:
Ok, not glorified – but still resurrected and restored to the integrity of the soul/body.

In what different way will the effects of hell occur than to the rewards given in heaven?

Where the body was used for sins of sensuality through one’s life, the effect in hell will be [___ what? ___] on the post-general resurrection person?
Click to expand...
S. Robert Bellarmine wrote at length about the role of the human senses in the punishments of Hell. He also wrote that those in Hell will be deprived of movement; based on the wedding guest who had “his hands and feet bound” in our LORD’s parable. This of course is directly opposite to the agility of the pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Jesus never said that hell is a physical fire. Not once has he ever made a direct statement pertaining to the physical nature of hell, literally speaking. He does make a statement about hell, but it is clear that he only ever used fire as an analogy; and any attempt to say that he meant it literally is idle speculation; especially given the fact that Jesus is famous for parables.
Click to expand...
To the best of my recollection, Christ never used the word “physical” as an adjective for anything. He also was not in the habit of saying “Literally…”

Under your interpretation, everything He said is open for debate of its nature. Is the Lord’s Prayer just an analogy, because He didn’t preface it with the word “Literally?”

It also seems that your understanding of parables is flawed. The fact that something is a parable does not mean that something is not true. It really is a sin not to render service to the Lord. It really is being a neighbor to look after a stranger. It really is better to perform a service unwillingly than to say we’ll do it and then not perform it.

Likewise, when Christ describes Hell as a furnace, it might not be attached to a locomotive, and people might not actually be turned into straw before being condemned, but it really means that it is a fiery place.
 
reggieM said:
I wouldn’t either but they continue to think that they’re Catholic and they’re in parishes and many actually attend Sunday Mass … so they’re “Catholic” in that sense.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with that. The ones with no belief in hell or the ones in denial are the toughest ones. Usually these are the ones that say "God wouldn’t send anyone to hell. He’s all loving."It’s like a dream-world view. They usually seem to become annoyed and insulted when you pop their bubble.

But then, so are the ones that believe, in a sense, with the sin of presumption, that they are going to heaven regardless of what they do. What’s worse, are those who teach it in catholic school and CCD or whatever it’s called now.
GEddie said:
He did. It’s the second cover photo. Only the cover art has changed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the correction. 🙂 Guess I need glasses. 🤓
 
DihydrogenOxide said:
Yeah, I agree with that. The ones with no belief in hell or the ones in denial are the toughest ones. Usually these are the ones that say "God wouldn’t send anyone to hell. He’s all loving."It’s like a dream-world view. They usually seem to become annoyed and insulted when you pop their bubble.

But then, so are the ones that believe, in a sense, with the sin of presumption, that they are going to heaven regardless of what they do. What’s worse, are those who teach it in catholic school and CCD or whatever it’s called now.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I find that very frightening, especially for the children being misinformed.

Jesus really suffered – severely! He did so for a reason.

I think it all goes together. The same people who think everybody goes to heaven, also want to get rid of crucifixes because they supposedly frighten people.

They also think that confession is unnecessary because we’re all basically good, etc.

Ok, maybe some priests were too vehement in the old days. But this is an extreme over-reaction that is probably causing far more damage.
 
reggieM said:
I think it all goes together. The same people who think everybody goes to heaven, also want to get rid of crucifixes because they supposedly frighten people.

They also think that confession is unnecessary because we’re all basically good, etc.

Ok, maybe some priests were too vehement in the old days. But this is an extreme over-reaction that is probably causing far more damage.
Click to expand...
Yes. I had the same experience with a fundamentalist christian neighbor who came into my house. She didn’t want to see the crucifix. Needless to say, she never came back. You’d hope that a catholic person would have been better catechized.

I’ve heard the confession one before. Some people have the same rationale as a protestant group, too. “Oh, I can just confess it to God. He’ll forgive me. I don’t have to talk to a priest to be forgiven.”

The pendulum swung to the complete opposite side of the spectrum in terms of sin.
 
tonyrey said:
GEddie;8777978:
Not at all.

I disdain the** earthly**
Click to expand...
idea of corruptible physical being in favour of the heavenly idea of glorified physical being - like our Lord. 🙂

An incorrupt and glorified body is not, by nature ‘corrupt’. Your glorified physical body is still physical. You are going to eat and drink in heaven. . .check out Scripture. When Christ appeared to the apostles after the resurrection HE ATE AND DRANK real, PHYSICAL food, EARTHLY food.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top