Arrgh! Horrible "Surprise" at Mass today

[AquinaSavio]

I personally fell that such masses aren’t for entertainment but so people can relate themselves to the music more easily. It’s about praising god and being present at the mass. For a lot teenagers this is hard during old-fashion masses - a lot of them feel as if they stepped into their old-fashioned grandma’s house.

I’m sorry, but we teenagers are ready to step up and follow Church traditions. I don’t expect the Church to change things so that we feel more comfortable. If we are truly trying to worship God as has been done for 2,000 years, the music will not make us feel uncomfortable. It will inspire us.

This type of music has dominated the church for decades. It seems to me that it hasn’t brought about a greater unity or deeper holiness in the Church. It has led to irreverence. When the teenager hears the same music he would at a “Praise and Worship” rock concert, it somehow makes the Mass a little less meaningful. Suddenly, when he sees the drums and electric guitars, it means even less. Finally, when he sees people clapping and waving their hands, it has become the rock concert, not a Mass at all.

 

[VociMike]

I can understand when someone claims that he doesn’t like it. Fine, that’s his personal preference. On the other hand I really don’t like when people start calling it inferior. Just because he is a ‘conservative’ it doesn’t make him right.

“With regard to liturgical music compositions, I make my own the “general law” that Saint Pius X formulated in these terms: ‘A composition for Church is sacred and liturgical insofar as it approaches Gregorian melody in flow, in inspiration, and in flavor, and so much less is it worthy of the temple insomuch as it is recognized as departing from that supreme model’.” – Pope John Paul II

It’s not about what people like and don’t like. It’s about what the Church teaches. Why is there such resistance to this concept?

 

[Victorious]

I looked and looked and finally found a parish that has a (relatively) orthodox Mass, in a church that looks like a church instead of a grain silo attatched to a warehouse, and has an actual organist playing the hymns instead of Buffalo Springfield backed up by the Grateful Dead playing protest songs from the Vietnam War.

So sad, yet SO TRUE!!!

(Note that these 's are NOT directed at your wife refusing to come to Mass for a long time. That is a serious matter that should not be belittled by the “get over it” crowd.)

I continue to maintain that our problem is a widespread failure to understand just what the Mass is. It is literally the sacrifice of Calvary, re-presented in an unbloody form. There is absolutely no difference between attending Mass and standing at the foot of the Cross. If you want to know whether something is appropriate for Mass, all you have to do is ask whether it would have been out of place on Golgotha. Period! That’s it! An awful lot of what goes on at Mass would flunk this simple test, no matter how vigorously defended it is.

 

[Victorious]

I’ve seen a couple statements in here which say that the Mass doesn’t belong to the people. It actually does. It’s Christ gift to us.
We go to Mass to receive Him.

It is only ours in trust. That means it’s not ours to do with as we please.

 

[Jennifer_G]

While not Catholic (Lutheran), I just had a similar experience. We had a “Cruzando Service” - basically youth from a Lutheran missionary that went to Mexico and other countries around there.

You would think we’d have a normal church service, but NO! They had stuff on a projector (hymns - in Spanish, that the kids sang, and the reading of the day - about 5 of them… and what the kids did each 5 days). Did the pastor say anything? Nope, except for Communion and the end of the service.

Oh, and what was that I saw? **LITURIGAL DANCING!?!? **. Singing - and dancing! - “It’s good to be in the ELCA” to the tune of “YMCA”. They even had a video skit of “The church as an airline”, with the “ushers” talking through the church service as if the pews were airplane seats. Atleast they did encourage Lutherans to make the Sign of the Cross, and said, “It’s a long standing Christian tradition”. (I thought, “HA!”). One guy in the video (they were showing the congregation doing it) did it backwards)
:nope: :bigyikes: :banghead: :crying: :crying:

Fortunately, it was only a 1 time thing… I was actually fuming inside, so I know how the OP felt.

…if this is what our contemporary service looks like (and I haven’t been to one), I really don’t wanna know… I felt like bolting from the pew and tearing down the equipment.

 

[dessert]

Since I have been posting about our choir director on this and other posts I woould like to give praise to Jesus and thanks to Him and to all the others that haave been praying. We had quite a disagreement(confrintation last sunday) with the CD but father told us all to forgive and have compassion and so we are more now more together in prayer. We had a good practice. The soloist is not singing quite as loud she used to think we couldn’t get along without heeer and now she is singing in more harmony wwith us and we, the rest of us are trying to sing louder and not let her do all the work. So some are not quitting afterall and we just might have a good Chrismas eve service. The CD is wow how did this happen? Praise to the Lord for faithfull brothers and sisters that pray. return from the Desert

 

[Deo_adiuvante_2]

When I was a teenager I went regularly to the teen Mass and was really into it. I stopped going to the teen Mass towards the end of my junior year of high school because I was beginning to realize that there was quite a bit of liturgical abuse. My parish still has the teens and children gather around the altar today even though the Archbishop told them to discontinue this.

I had a friend who regularly attended the Tridentine Latin Mass and she helped me to realize this. Although the Tridentine Mass is absolutely beautiful, I still attend the Novus Ordo Mass because it is a legitimate Mass.

I do not, however, plan on attending a Teen Mass unless it is my only option.

 

[PyroAlchemist]

…
Having waited so long to finally get the honor of taking the Eucharist, I have a hunger for it. So, that is probably why I am surprised that the OP would walk out of mass…

Well stated deb1.

However I think if the “teen mass” brings teens to mass and the church I have to be all for it… Just as long as there is a more traditional mass available at another time for the traditionalists. When my kids were in their teens they hated the “classical” music at the cathedral where we were members. Today only one of our four are practicing Catholics. Can’t help but wonder if they might have stayed in church if they had felt more at home.

 

[Victorious]

However I think if the “teen mass” brings teens to mass and the church I have to be all for it…

But what if what they’re being brought to is sacrilegious or nearly sacrilegious? Why should a travesty be good enough for kids?

…When my kids were in their teens they hated the “classical” music at the cathedral where we were members.

What is meant by “classical” music?

Today only one of our four are practicing Catholics. Can’t help but wonder if they might have stayed in church if they had felt more at home.

I am sorry your kids have fallen away from the Church, and I hope they will come back. But are we supposed to feel “at home” at Mass? Or are we supposed to be alive to the fact that we are literally at the foot of the Cross at Mass? Is Calvary an appropriate setting for drums and electric guitars?

Teaching kids from an early age that the Mass is like a rock concert is one of the ways we get things like the infamous Halloween Mass. And it’s how we breed a generation of Catholics who not only don’t see anything wrong with such things, but actually find them enjoyable.

Proverbs 14:12:

There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

 

[Holland]

However I think if the “teen mass” brings teens to mass and the church I have to be all for it… Just as long as there is a more traditional mass available at another time for the traditionalists. When my kids were in their teens they hated the “classical” music at the cathedral where we were members. Today only one of our four are practicing Catholics. Can’t help but wonder if they might have stayed in church if they had felt more at home.

As a Catholic who left the Church and returned many years later I can tell you that it has very little to do with feeling “at home”. It has to do with good teaching and actually believing what you are taught. In today’s world it is far to easy to sit on the fence and make no decision on your salvation. Let’s hope SOMEONE shakes the fence your kids are sitting on.

 

[palmas85]

But what if what they’re being brought to is sacrilegious or nearly sacrilegious? Why should a travesty be good enough for kids? What is meant by “classical” music? I am sorry your kids have fallen away from the Church, and I hope they will come back. But are we supposed to feel “at home” at Mass? Or are we supposed to be alive to the fact that we are literally at the foot of the Cross at Mass? Is Calvary an appropriate setting for drums and electric guitars?

Teaching kids from an early age that the Mass is like a rock concert is one of the ways we get things like the infamous Halloween Mass. And it’s how we breed a generation of Catholics who not only don’t see anything wrong with such things, but actually find them enjoyable.

Proverbs 14:12:

Speaking of the infamous Halloween mass, I notice that it has once again disappeared from the forums.

 

[PyroAlchemist]

But what if what they’re being brought to is sacrilegious or nearly sacrilegious? …Is Calvary an appropriate setting for drums and electric guitars?

I don’t believe there was a pipe organ at the foot of the cross either.

At one time plainsong and chant were the only accepted musical forms at mass. It was several centuries before the pipe organ was accepted. Now at many churches and cathedrals (including the one my family attended) full orchestras are utilized during special occasions. There is nothing inherently “sacrilegious” about any musical instrument. Now if they play “Satisfaction” by the Stones, that’s a different matter.

As my grandmother (born in 1880) used to say, “The only tune that belongs to the devil is a spittoon.”

 

[netmilsmom]

I don’t believe there was a pipe organ at the foot of the cross either.

But the difference is that the Pipe organ is historically Catholic. Part of the problem that I see in young people is that there is no difference betweent the Teen Mass and the Evangelical church up the street.

I feel that the problem is more poor teachings rather than “feeling at home” and that we try to make our kids feel good at mass rather than focusing on the sacred.

We have very large families at our parish. We pray hard and play hard. The feel good comes at the parish events. Do we have kids that scoot to the LifeTeen masses sometimes? Yes. Do they come back to our masses? For sure. The LifeTeen mass is socialization, the Parish Mass is home. And there is nothing wrong with a little sugar in your diet, but a steady stream will kill you.

I was just like your kids. I came home when I found an Historically Catholic Holy Mass.

 

[Victorious]

There is nothing inherently “sacrilegious” about any musical instrument. Now if they play “Satisfaction” by the Stones, that’s a different matter.

As my grandmother (born in 1880) used to say, “The only tune that belongs to the devil is a spittoon.”

I rest my case. If any musical instrument is appropriate for Mass, and the only tune that belongs to the devil is a spittoon, then why shouldn’t we play “Satisfaction” by the Stones? What have you got left to appeal to to keep out ragtime, kazoos, acid rock, hip hop or grunge metal?

Your grandmother must not have lived to hear the unspeakably obscene outpourings of today’s rap groups. But you’ve deprived yourself of any rationale for keeping that out of the Mass, too.

 

[PyroAlchemist]

The same arguments were made in the renascence area for keeping polyphony out of liturgical celebrations.

Victorious, I think perhaps you would have been more comfortable living in the 10the century and perhaps I am at the wrong discussion board. I love the Catholic Answers radio program but I find this board quite stifling and frankly a stumbling-block to my faith.

 

[jmcrae]

But the difference is that the Pipe organ is historically Catholic.

How so? Or how is the pipe organ any more “Catholic” than any other musical instrument? Plain chant is the only form of music that goes back to the time of the Apostles, and coming out of the Jewish tradition. The Apostles never had pipe organs. (Maybe we should bring back the harp …)

Part of the problem that I see in young people is that there is no difference betweent the Teen Mass and the Evangelical church up the street.

Actually, there is at least one very important difference.

I feel that the problem is more poor teachings rather than “feeling at home” and that we try to make our kids feel good at mass rather than focusing on the sacred.

It’s true that the teaching is very basic. But kids need the basics - you can’t go from the cradle straight into systematic theology without at least a little bit of “Jesus loves me” and “God can hear my prayers” to lay down a foundation, so that the rest of it will make some kind of meaningful sense.

If kids today don’t know what’s going on, they will leave. This is not the previous generations, where you stayed to please your parents, and then gradually “got it” over time - kids today are surrounded by other options - the mosques, the temples, and the Protestant churches are no longer hundreds of miles away; they’re within walking or easy bussing distance of your house, now - and if something else looks better, then off they will go.

The LifeTeen Mass provides that intermediate step between the unquestioning faith of childhood and the fully educated faith of adulthood, where they can get non-judgemental answers to their “dumb” questions, and feel good about being Catholic.

 

[PyroAlchemist]

“While John Paul II’s tenure has been marked by an increasing centralization of authority in the Vatican—most evident in Rome’s minute and detailed prescriptions for the liturgy—the pope himself presided over masses where Indian women purified the portals of St. Peter with rose water; African tribesmen signaled the entry procession with horns made of elephant tusks; indigenous people reverenced the altar with smoking bowls of copal incense; and Pacific Islanders danced their prayer in traditional garb of feathers, beads and woven grasses. If the Vatican has made every effort to standardize Catholic liturgical practice throughout the world, this pope’s public celebrations have welcomed richly varied cultural expressions of faith.” *

Strangely, JP2 did not walk out of the mass.

*Excerpt from an op-ed piece, originally appearing in the
San Francisco Chronicle on Tuesday, April 5, 2005
“Pope John Paul II, 1920–2005
A Genius of the Human Gesture”

 

[netmilsmom]

How so? Or how is the pipe organ any more “Catholic” than any other musical instrument? Plain chant is the only form of music that goes back to the time of the Apostles, and coming out of the Jewish tradition. The Apostles never had pipe organs. (Maybe we should bring back the harp …)

.

Here’s a little history of the pipe organ…
** Organ Basics**: The organ first appears in the 3rd Century BC, when a Greek engineer by the name of Ktesibios, used pipes and chambers of air operated by a keyboard to solve the basic problem, “How can one play more than one wind instrument at one time?” The organ has since evolved from these “hydraulis” models to hand-blown and self-playing pipe organs to the modern electronic and digital organs

Play a song played on the pipe organ and ask someone what it is and they will say “Church Music”. same doesn’t happen with a guitar or tamborine.

The Apostles may not have had organs but that was Christian not exclusively Catholic. Try starting from the time that the Protestants broke from us. Then you find historically Catholic.

 

[PyroAlchemist]

The Apostles may not have had organs but that was Christian not exclusively Catholic. Try starting from the time that the Protestants broke from us. Then you find historically Catholic.

**Ridiculous! ** So that 3rd century BC Greek was a Catholic and the Protestants didn’t have organs? How about Johann Sebastian Bach? Was he a closet Catholic and just pretended to be a devout Lutheran? Oh and take a listen to the following mp3 and tell me it is “Church Music”.

atos.stirlingprop.com/DoltonMc.mp3

 

[netmilsmom]

**Ridiculous! ** So that 3rd century BC Greek was a Catholic and the Protestants didn’t have organs? How about Johann Sebastian Bach? Was he a closet Catholic and just pretended to be a devout Lutheran? Oh and take a listen to the following mp3 and tell me it is “Church Music”.

atos.stirlingprop.com/DoltonMc.mp3

Where in the world are you getting that from my post? I never stated that everyone who played an organ is Catholic. Just as everyone woman who wore a mantilla is not Catholic, some things have become a symbol of Catholic in the historical perspective. It would probably help in the discussion if you didn’t read things into the posts.

And sorry but your file won’t play on my computer.