Many thanks, E. I came onto the thread late and didn’t follow the posts as they were made.
I appreciate the clarification, but personally am unable to be assured that things are as they should be at St. Cecilia’s. Maybe we need another thread, but whichever Mass it was, said a week earlier or not, if only the message of love and acceptance are extended but the actual teaching that homosexual acts are sin, is excluded, then the proper catechesis is not being given and that very lack, imho, is horrific and scandalous.
Since the mass where he preached inclusion was a week earlier, there was no need to address the problem at that time, since those who needed the catechesis were not present. That’s the main issue of this whole thread - nobody knows what that pastor actually said or taught either before mass or during the homily when the gay people were actually present. For all we know, it’s possible that he distributed pamphlets with information helpful to them.
ITAAnd it’s not only objectively horrific and scandalous, Tigg. Did you catch Kresta this evening, on EWTN radio? Although I’m not always a fan of his, because of his tone, he was right on the money today. He addressed this entire issue and the July 10 Mass. He also invited gays & lesbians to call the show, to opine on whether “Welcoming Masses” are helpful or not helpful to those with SSA struggling to remain chaste. Unfortunately he only had time for 2 callers, but each said No – the female a more resounding No. The male said he wished that there was much more publicity about the Courage apostolate in this and other churches, and that the message given out by this parish was at least a little confusing and lacking. The female said,
Elizabeth,
Yes.
Be embarrassed if you wish, but I for one find this to be a huge milestone for Catholics everywhere, and brings us one step closer to truly being accepting of everyone as God wants us to do.
It matters a ton to those Catholics who identify as having SSA and who are trying nevertheless to resist those urges and to live Catholic lives. They do not necessarily want the “Welcoming Masses,” and they definitely want a reiteration of Church teaching at these Masses (which is not happening), and they definitely want Catholic resources provided (which this parish does not enumerate) in order to retain their chastity.
I know from personal experience as someone “suffering” from SSA. It’s something I can’t help. No amount of preaching can change that. I don’t act upon it, but it’s absolutely something that’s there. Now I know for a fact that I would much prefer the church to teach not to act upon it by welcoming the group in specifically like this, rather than teaching “behind our backs”. As the saying goes, “you attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar”. Or something like that.
That’s what I thought but didn’t want to jump to conclusions.
I don’t know about “finally”. The Church has done public outreach to the homosexuals within and without the Church at least since the 1960s. This Mass isn’t a matter of “finally”, it’s just another example.
“Can be”? That makes it sound like a future goal. Homosexuals, even those who are not living chastely are accepted in the Church now and have been for a very long time.
Not all sins are the same. If the Church focuses on homosexual activity “too much” right now, it’s not the Church’s fault. When a person or a group choses to make their sin public or to try to get the Church to endorse thier sin, the focus is going to be more public than a sin that is dealt with primarily in the Confessional.
Well, look at the news. You don’t hear of robbers holding rallies trying to get the public to support them or groups of theives lobbying the Church to repeal the 7th Commandment. CAF is a reflection of what is happening in our world.
I don’t think its a matter of embarrasment but rather sadness at a missed opportunity. This Mass COULD have been an opportunity to witness to the truth of Church teaching on acceptance and on moral living, especially to a group of Catholics that finds the latter more challenging than others may. However, it doesn’t seem that that opportunity was met.
So what the Church actually teaches in order for you to **gain salvation **is not of primary importance in your mind and you place more value on a feeling of acceptance for your condition by society, or the world, (your post #92) than your eternal happiness. You are correct that those of us who do not suffer from homosexuality can understand the particular cross you bear, but we ALL have our individual crosses to endure. God has revealed His Truth about this matter - so don’t misunderstand the action of this one parish priest and assume that the Church will eventually revise her dogma regarding SS acts. Development of a doctrine never means a change to a different understanding; it is always the same doctrine in the same meaning in the same vein, progressing with consistency in the revealed Truth which cannot change.
I’m so glad you caught that show, E, and may God bless those who struggle so. I pray they all be strengthened along their pathway to holiness by faithful Catholics who will continue to uphold authentic Church teaching, not whitewash the Truth because of political correctness or think that true charity consists in affirming one’s ignorance instead of counseling and exhorting with the Light.
I think the point being made is that the gaining of salvation is more important than the way things are taught about salvation. We can debate prudence until the cows come home about the best way to present the Gospel, as long as it is done in Truth. Likewise, the specific teaching on one area of sin can happen in the context of the rest of the Gospel, or it can be come or focus instead of the Gospel. Yes, those who die in mortal sin are lost, but the best way to get them their may or may not be the path or gentleness. It may or not be the path of constant condemnation. As long as Truth is not sacrificed for a lie, I think it best to trust the pastor who know their own flock.
Straw man. Not happening. Name a modern Catholic parish that uses an approach of “constant condemnation,” or has done anything approaching that in the late 20th or early 21st century. Catholic parish. Not an evangelical Protestant denomination or church.
Many in the very target population suggest that this pastor does not know his own flock. They have trusted him, and he has failed them, according to them (ii.e., faithfully practicing Catholics with SSA, faithful strugglers against that temptation who need their Church to stand with them, not against them or with the secular community who approves of that behavior, in that struggle)