British "Cardinal Celebrates Ramadan at Home"

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gam197 said:
Yes, I see Islam as a false religion and wonder why a catholic cardinal would “celebrate” one of the holiest holidays for muslims, Ramadan by partaking in Iftar.
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Then I’m afraid there’s not much more I can discuss with you on the terrorism front then. I don’t hold non-radical Muslims accountable for the actions of Islamic terrorists and the like. You clearly do. I think that’s utterly irrational, but I’m not going to change your mind anytime soon.

Let me ask you something, do you have a problem with atheists celebrating things like Christmas and Easter then? How about Muslims joining someone for a Christmas party? Can Catholics not go to a bar mitzvah then?
Iftar is a meal. It’s designed, from what I can tell (someone please tell me if I got anything wrong, I know next to nothing about Islam), to be a communal meal that yes, is linked to Ramadan. Fortunately, from going through the videos of the cardinal at Iftar and from just looking at what Iftar is, no prayers or rituals are required. You just eat and talk.
Honestly sounds like a pretty good time. I think I’d enjoy myself immensely if I ever got to attend one.
 
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gam197 said:
I see Islam as a false religion and wonder why a catholic cardinal would "celebrate"publicly one of the holiest holidays for muslims, Ramadan by partaking in Iftar.
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Then why did you go through the whole “confusion” thing? You were never confused, just upset that a Cardinal recognizes the Church’s position on Islam does not mesh with your own.

Your view is wrong by the way. The Church says: “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” (CCC 841).”

Nothing false about that.
 
ImQuiet said:
Then I’m afraid there’s not much more I can discuss with you on the terrorism front then. I don’t hold non-radical Muslims accountable for the actions of Jihadis and the like. You clearly do. I think that’s utterly irrational, but I’m not going to change your mind anytime soon.
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I never said all muslims in fact I said. This is what I said from post 53
I am not saying that all muslims are involved either but to make muslims and catholic equal in violence today seems to be an untruth.
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originally posted by ImQuiet
Let me ask you something, do you have a problem with atheists celebrating things like Christmas and Easter then? How about Muslims joining someone for a Christmas party? Can Catholics not go to a bar mitzvah then?
Iftar is a meal. It’s designed, from what I can tell (someone please tell me if I got anything wrong, I know next to nothing about Islam), to be a communal meal that yes, is linked to Ramadan. Fortunately, from going through the videos of the cardinal at Iftar and from just looking at what Iftar is, no prayers or rituals are required. You just eat and talk.
Honestly sounds like a pretty good time. I think I’d enjoy myself immensely if I ever got to attend one.
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Would I participate in Ramaden, a very holy season for muslim worldwide, no. Others can do as they wish.
 
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billsherman said:
Then why did you go through the whole “confusion” thing? You were never confused, just upset that a Cardinal recognizes the Church’s position on Islam does not mesh with your own.
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I myself am not confused but would not want my children to see this as they would be confused I believe. All faiths are not equal.
 
gam197 said:
I never said all muslims in fact I said. This is what I said from post 53
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You sure?
gam197 said:
This to me is not like eating with thieves or adulterers. This is about a religion that is massive in population and crushes other religions and at times kills Christians.
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Could you tell me what you meant here then? Because it looks like you’re saying that the Cardinal attending Iftar is supporting radical Jihad, even when most Muslims have denounced such a practice.
gam197 said:
Would I participate in Ramaden, a very holy season for muslim worldwide, no. Others can do as they wish.
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Bold mine.
I wasn’t talking about Ramadan, I was talking about Iftar. Regardless, since you’ve given your position, I ask again, under what basis can you criticize the Cardinal for attending Iftar?
 
ImQuiet said:
Could you tell me what you meant here then? Because it looks like you’re saying that the Cardinal attending Iftar is supporting radical Jihad, even when most Muslims have denounced such a practice.
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Many muslims do reject radical Jihad which is good. This had nothing to do with the Cardinal.
I wasn’t talking about Ramadan, I was talking about Iftar. Regardless, since you’ve given your position, I ask again, under what basis can you criticize the Cardinal for attending Iftar
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Iftar is a part of Ramaden. Is Good Friday or Holy Saturday a part of Easter?
 
billsherman said:
Your view is wrong by the way. The Church says: “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” (CCC 841).”

Nothing false about that.
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The plan means that they aren’t prohibited from salvation simply because they are Muslims or Jews. There was an erroneous teaching that Jews couldn’t be saved, even if they converted, because some believed that the guilt of Jesus’s death extended to every Jew for all time.

They are included in the plan of salvation, provided they accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and become Catholic. Their religions are not salvific and they cannot be saved without Christ.
 
ImQuiet said:
Let me ask you something, do you have a problem with atheists celebrating things like Christmas and Easter then?
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No because they aren’t celebrating the true meaning of the liturgical calendar as we Catholics do.

They are celebrating the secular aspect of Christmas and Easter.

We celebrate the birth of Christ and His resurrection.
 
Feanor2 said:
So can Catholics go to Bar Mitzvahs? Is that different?
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Sure. I have been to one, but would like to go to more. We attended both the ceremony in the synagogue and the reception. The reception is just a party, so no issue there. For the ceremony, we just sat respectfully. Men were asked to cover their heads. It was very interesting. The young man had to read a passage in Hebrew, and then explain it. He did a nice job.
 
So is there some kind of notion that participating in Jewish traditions is acceptable but not Muslim practices?

I’m not really asking you so much. I’m just picking up a specific aversion to Muslim practices here
 
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Crusader13 said:
No because they aren’t celebrating the true meaning of the liturgical calendar as we Catholics do.
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And the Cardinal isn’t celebrating Ramadan, he’s enjoying the meal at the end of it. It’s like an atheist celebrating Christmas.
gam197 said:
Is Good Friday or Holy Saturday a part of Easter?
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No, but Easter is, which is what I was referring to. It’s not like there isn’t a religious component to Easter Sunday.
gam197 said:
Many muslims do reject radical Jihad which is good. This had nothing to do with the Cardinal.
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To quote you:
gam197 said:
This to me is not like eating with thieves or adulterers. This is about a religion that is massive in population and crushes other religions and at times kills Christians.
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This doesn’t correlate directly with the Cardinal, but you seem to list the existence of radical Jihad as a reason why the Cardinal shouldn’t be in attendance,
 
Feanor2 said:
So is there some kind of notion that participating in Jewish traditions is acceptable but not Muslim practices?

I’m not really asking you so much. I’m just picking up a specific aversion to Muslim practices here
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I certainly don’t feel that way. I would gladly attend an Eid Al Fitr celebration (which is coming up in a couple days).
 
ImQuiet said:
This doesn’t correlate directly with the Cardinal, but you seem to list the existence of radical Jihad as a reason why the Cardinal shouldn’t be in attendance,
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Again, no Jihad has nothing to do with Cardinal. Again it is because it is a false religion which has over 1.8 billion followers.
 
gam197 said:
Again it is because it is a false religion which has over 1.8 billion followers.
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Ok, but what bearing does that have on the Cardinal attending an Iftar? We’re just back to this question again.
Let me ask you something, do you have a problem with atheists celebrating things like Christmas and Easter then? How about Muslims joining someone for a Christmas party? Can Catholics not go to a bar mitzvah then?
Iftar is a meal. It’s designed, from what I can tell (someone please tell me if I got anything wrong, I know next to nothing about Islam), to be a communal meal that yes, is linked to Ramadan. Fortunately, from going through the videos of the cardinal at Iftar and from just looking at what Iftar is, no prayers or rituals are required. You just eat and talk.
Honestly sounds like a pretty good time. I think I’d enjoy myself immensely if I ever got to attend one.
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To which you responded
gam197 said:
Would I participate in Ramaden, a very holy season for muslim worldwide, no. Others can do as they wish.
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Again, bold mine.
I don’t really care if you attend an Iftar or not, but according to you others may do as they wish except the Cardinal because… reasons? I’ve already explained how Iftar isn’t a ritualistic thing or anything like that, and you haven’t really responded in any regards to that particular point at all.
 
ImQuiet said:
I don’t really care if you attend an Iftar or not, but according to you others may do as they wish except the Cardinal because… reasons? I’ve already explained how Iftar isn’t a ritualistic thing or anything like that, and you haven’t really responded in any regards to that particular point at all.
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If an atheist wants to attend a Christmas celebration, that is fine. He is not bound by any religion and can do as he pleases.

The Cardinal is a Catholic and because he upholds the Catholic faith to be the one true faith, he should
refrain.
 
gam197 said:
Again, no Jihad has nothing to do with Cardinal. Again it is because it is a false religion which has over 1.8 billion followers.
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Should I, or should I not attend (via Zoom) my niece’s Bat Mitzvah Saturday morning?
 
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