Can catholics be masons?

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so my questioning of a teaching was moot just because I had no personal interest of joining? Questions are always legitimate, nor is it not sticking to church teaching.
Taking into account some of the other threads you are currently involved in and getting nowhere}, Im convinced you are either not catholic, a troll on this site or just very dense. Which is it? Are you catholic , and if you are, why do you battle the teachings of your faith?
 
Taking into account some of the other threads you are currently involved in and getting nowhere}, Im convinced you are either not catholic, a troll on this site or just very dense. Which is it? Are you catholic , and if you are, why do you battle the teachings of your faith?
If I was a troll, I wouldn’t spend time on this site (Catholics are stubborn :p) so you can stop trying to say that.

Of course I’m Catholic, I’ve stated that many times. Questinging Church teachign does not make me any less Catholic than you not questioning them, nor would I say that questing things (and often not understand the response hence asking more questions) makes me dense.

And saying the topics I’m involved and getting nowhere in, that’s simply not true. I’ve learn a lot, and that’s getting somewhere in my opinion (since that was my original purpose for asking questions).

It will never cease to amaze me how asking questions so I can better understand suddenly turns things into personal attacks. People assume just because i ask a question then it automatically means I disagree with them. If you’d rather me not understand the teaching of my faith (which is what I thought this place was all about), well, then ignore my posts because I am learning a lot.
 
If I was a troll, I wouldn’t spend time on this site (Catholics are stubborn :p) so you can stop trying to say that.

Of course I’m Catholic, I’ve stated that many times. Questinging Church teachign does not make me any less Catholic than you not questioning them, nor would I say that questing things (and often not understand the response hence asking more questions) makes me dense.

And saying the topics I’m involved and getting nowhere in, that’s simply not true. I’ve learn a lot, and that’s getting somewhere in my opinion (since that was my original purpose for asking questions).

It will never cease to amaze me how asking questions so I can better understand suddenly turns things into personal attacks. People assume just because i ask a question then it automatically means I disagree with them. If you’d rather me not understand the teaching of my faith (which is what I thought this place was all about), well, then ignore my posts because I am learning a lot.
???GOOD CATHOLICS DONT QUESTION MAGESTERIAL TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH… read up on “vincible ignorance” and learn something worth your soul’s time and effort.
 
???GOOD CATHOLICS DONT QUESTION MAGESTERIAL TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH… read up on “vincible ignorance” and learn something worth your soul’s time and effort.
I can’t even learn the why’s? My personal faith increase in strength the more I understand. I think we’re using the term “question” in different ways. I don’t mean it in the sense I don’t believe it, just that I inquire about the reasonings I don’t understand. If wanting to understand the reasons behind teachings makes me a bad Catholic, then i guess ignorant people are the only good ones. If you have more to say send it in a PM because this has nothing to do with masonry. Sorry about the digression.
 
I can’t even learn the why’s? My personal faith increase in strength the more I understand. I think we’re using the term “question” in different ways. I don’t mean it in the sense I don’t believe it, just that I inquire about the reasonings I don’t understand. If wanting to understand the reasons behind teachings makes me a bad Catholic, then i guess ignorant people are the only good ones. If you have more to say send it in a PM because this has nothing to do with masonry. Sorry about the digression.
Did you watch the John Salza video’s ? He explains a lot of the “why”. I’m sure there is more in his books. Check out the other resources in the this thread for more of the why’s.
 
I believe asking question is good. And I think other readers can learn a lot from reading this thread. With the Grace of God maybe some Catholics considering freemasonry will not join after reading this thread. Hope.

Questioning is a means of learning. As a Catholic though, I would only hope that we obey first and then ask questions to help us better understand. And with that understanding comes spiritual growth. But again, obedience comes first. God WILL bless us for our obedience and faith.

Believe…and then you shall see.
 
I can’t even learn the why’s? My personal faith increase in strength the more I understand. I think we’re using the term “question” in different ways. I don’t mean it in the sense I don’t believe it, just that I inquire about the reasonings I don’t understand. If wanting to understand the reasons behind teachings makes me a bad Catholic, then i guess ignorant people are the only good ones. If you have more to say send it in a PM because this has nothing to do with masonry. Sorry about the digression.
OKAY getting back off the brief tangent? If you were considering joining the masons- DONT. I presume you dont need to delve any further into your research on the organization since it has been clearly spelled out for you…? If you are still confused ,ask your priest for a very precise dissertation on why Catholics are forbidden to join secret organizations.
 
NoMoreGames;4910658:
I can’t even learn the why’s? My personal faith increase in strength the more I understand. I think we’re using the term “question” in different ways. I don’t mean it in the sense I don’t believe it, just that I inquire about the reasonings I don’t understand. If wanting to understand the reasons behind teachings makes me a bad Catholic, then i guess ignorant people are the only good ones. If you have more to say send it in a PM because this has nothing to do with masonry. Sorry about the digression.
OKAY getting back off the brief tangent? If you were considering joining the masons- DONT. I presume you dont need to delve any further into your research on the organization since it has been clearly spelled out for you…? If you are still confused ,ask your priest for a very precise dissertation on why Catholics are forbidden to join secret organizations.
Gentlemen,

There two very good point to be made in all of this discussion:

1. One should not join the masons if he has any doubts about the character of the organization. I am confident however that thorough research will provide the answer to this question.

The documents written by the Popes are very eye-opening–especially in what they consider to be the “evils” of Freemasonry. Leo XIII – Humanum Genus #10 is a good one. Much of what Pope Leo XIII says about the masons is simply not true…

ie. Freemasonry has hidden wishes “to bind men like slaves in the very tightest bonds, and without giving any sufficient reason; to make use of men enslaved to the will of another for any arbitrary act; to arm men’s right hands for bloodshed after securing impunity for the crime.”

As far as this point goes… Freemasonry does no such thing. This sounds more like a “DaVinci Code” style conspiracy theory than anything resembling the truth. Ask John Salza. He was a Freemason.

but much of Pope Leo XIII document is probably true…

i.e. ** He accuses Freemasonry of supporting:**
Religious Indifferentism-
This is true to the extent that Freemasonry is indifferent to which religion you belong—as long as you believe in God. No atheist can become a mason.
I think it is good that Freemasonry requires a belief in God—so many organization now don’t even require that (ie Boy/Girl Scouts along with many other groups/clubs).

Egalitarianism
This is the belief that all people in a society should have equal rights.
The Freemasons probably believe in this one too.

Cultural Pluralism
Having/being a lot of different cultures (I think this would be synonymous with multi-culturalism).
They probably believe in this one also.

Civil Liberty
Freedoms that protect the individual from the government.
Once again, probably so.

Separation between church and state
No religious institution should control the government, nor vice-versa.
Dido (probably).

I had to answer with the caveat of saying “probably” to the majority of the above. The truth of the matter is I am only assuming on their political beliefs based on what I know about their character—Freemasons are asked not to discuss their political beliefs in lodge. From what I saw most lodge meetings were more focused on fund raisers for the related charities, upkeep of the lodge, and helping older members of the community. In all my 32 degrees, I never heard anyone talk neither politics nor religion (other than possibly where they go to church or maybe an office they hold in their church—many are deacons, ushers, etc).

However, I do not see anything wrong with any of the ideas the last section. Most are what this great country of ours is based on. I hold true to many of these ideas because I am an American.

List of Freemasons
I don’t like to quote Wikipedia too much, but I think this list is accurate. There are many famous masons–I admit we have our infamous ones as well…

2. Talking with a priest about the organization is always a good idea too.

There is nothing trivial or trite about Freemasonry. The best men I know are masons.
 
Dallastexas,

Once again, just remember that you are personally incuring excomunication upon yourself by your choice to be a freemason. The knowledge is before you. This would make you a schismatic as defined below.

Canon 751: “Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; **schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” **

Canon 1364 §1: “**an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” **

The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense,” (CCC 2272) and does not require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority.
~Immaculate Conception, please pray for us~
 
It seems for the wiki we often have to rely on the masons for the lists of masons there – rather than any evidence produced by the people themselves.

And then you go blantantly contradicting the popes and articles of the faith. You’re a Mason alright.

Let’s see a quote about what John Salza says:

“Admittedly, John had some lingering concerns about his Masonic membership while he was a Mason. The Lodge’s rituals would use strange names for God, require its members to pray aloud around a common altar, swear secret oaths with blood-curdling penalties, and make repeated references to resurrection and eternal life without any mention of Jesus Christ. These were all troubling to John. In fact, John specifically prayed before every Lodge meeting that his participation would not be offensive to God. Nevertheless, the friendships and camaraderie John enjoyed in the Lodge temporarily dulled his spiritual misgivings, and John was able to suppress his concerns for a period of time.”

And this is just at the lower levels.

One would not expect a secret society dedicated to fostering its own goals and the goals of its members, and of frankly diabolical origin to be anything less than as subversive as this. A positive outside front… while the rotten core works through the ‘good intentions’ of the lower levels.

Let’s listen to what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say:

that its history has never yet been written in a spirit of critical truth; that credulity . . . has been the foundation on which all masonic historical investigations have been built, . . . that the missing links of a chain of evidence have been frequently supplied by gratuitous invention and that statements of vast importance have been carelessly sustained by the testimony of documents whose authenticity has not been proved.

“The historical portion of old records”, he adds [14]
Code:
as written by Anderson, Preston, Smith, Calcott and other writers of that generation, was little more than a collection of fables, so absurd as to excite the smile of every reader.
In other words the Masons are the Da Vinci Code of history.

But we do know the truth – from reliable sources, from Catholic sources and cross checked facts – that the Masonic principles and their foundation are anti-Catholic, and have led to such slaughters as the French Revolution.

What do the Masons of this decade do? Perhaps they celebrate their victories, but nevertheless I am certain they do their best to keep a firm hold of them as well and subvert the Church.

Catholic and Mason? Never the two shall come together.

Instead of emoting about the great fellowship within, one should get out as much as one should get out of the great fellowship of the Mormon inner temple, the local Pagan temple, or the local Communist party club at college. Or… you will have to apologize ultimately… to God! 🙂
 
There two very good point to be made in all of this discussion:
Here’s another good point. In fact, it is the point best of all. The Church forbids you under pain of excommunication from being a Mason. Note the period.

Your attitude is no different from someone who says, “Sure, the Church is against abortion, but that isn’t really binding on conscience. I’ve really looked at the issue, and the Church is wrong, and I’m right.”

Pride goes before a fall. If you’re a Mason, you are excommunicated. Everything you receive Communion, you commit a grave sin. Worse still, you’re telling other Catholics it’s okay to exchange Heaven for membership in a boys’ club.

Nothing you can say about how wonderful the Masons are changes any of these facts.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Shin,

Thank you very much for your post. I believe CA is a great forum in which to discuss issues such as this.
It seems for the wiki we often have to rely on the masons for the lists of masons there – rather than any evidence produced by the people themselves.

And then you go blantantly contradicting the popes and articles of the faith. You’re a Mason alright.
Please tell me where I have contradicted the popes. I read back over the material presented, and it appears to be correct. Please let me know where the contradiction appears.

As for Wikipedia, the references/sources are listed at the bottom of the page.

Thank you.
 
Dallastexas,

Once again, just remember that you are personally incuring excomunication upon yourself by your choice to be a freemason. The knowledge is before you. This would make you a schismatic as defined below.

Canon 751: “Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; **schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” **

Canon 1364 §1: “**an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” **

The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense,” (CCC 2272) and does not require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority.
Code:
                       ~Immaculate Conception, please pray for us~
Brother sseasons,

Thank you for your post. You bring up very good issues and references.

I am not doubting anything you are saying.

However I hold to my position that the Church has made a mistake on condemning Freemasonry.
 
Here’s another good point. In fact, it is the point best of all. The Church forbids you under pain of excommunication from being a Mason. Note the period.

Your attitude is no different from someone who says, “Sure, the Church is against abortion, but that isn’t really binding on conscience. I’ve really looked at the issue, and the Church is wrong, and I’m right.”

Pride goes before a fall. If you’re a Mason, you are excommunicated. Everything you receive Communion, you commit a grave sin. Worse still, you’re telling other Catholics it’s okay to exchange Heaven for membership in a boys’ club.

Nothing you can say about how wonderful the Masons are changes any of these facts.

– Mark L. Chance.
Mark,

Thank you for your post.

Abortion is murder. I do not see how anyone could possibly argue to the contrary. I do not see any gray area on this one. It’s in black and white print in the Bible.

My question is “Why is does the Church call Freemasonry a sin?”

Thank you for your time.
 
Here’s another good point. In fact, it is the point best of all. The Church forbids you under pain of excommunication from being a Mason. Note the period.

Your attitude is no different from someone who says, “Sure, the Church is against abortion, but that isn’t really binding on conscience. I’ve really looked at the issue, and the Church is wrong, and I’m right.”

Pride goes before a fall. If you’re a Mason, you are excommunicated. Everything you receive Communion, you commit a grave sin. Worse still, you’re telling other Catholics it’s okay to exchange Heaven for membership in a boys’ club.

Nothing you can say about how wonderful the Masons are changes any of these facts.

– Mark L. Chance.
Thank you. It amazes me how people find all sorts of colorful, comforting ways to justify corrupting their faith. If you need a men’s club that fits perfectly into your faith, and -oh yeah, doesn’t shatter your hopes for eternal salvation—JOIN THE KNIGHTS!
 
Brother sseasons,

Thank you for your post. You bring up very good issues and references.

I am not doubting anything you are saying.

However I hold to my position that the Church has made a mistake on condemning Freemasonry.
You have a way of keeping your composure. Thank you for being polite.

I will pray for you.

"Vivo Cristo Rey!
 
Brother sseasons,

Thank you for your post. You bring up very good issues and references.

I am not doubting anything you are saying.

However I hold to my position that the Church has made a mistake on condemning Freemasonry.
That makes you wrong and not the Church!

And as long as this remains Church teaching it means you are in a state of mortal sin by remaining a Freemason and not renouncing it. You are not off the hook by simply saying you are an inactive Freemason. The Church forbids you to be a Freemason. It makes no difference if you are active or not.
 
Abortion is murder. I do not see how anyone could possibly argue to the contrary. I do not see any gray area on this one. It’s in black and white print in the Bible.
And other people who disobey the authority of the Church disagree with you, saying things very much akin to what you’ve said regarding the Freemasons.
My question is “Why is does the Church call Freemasonry a sin?”
The Church has answered that question. The references have been provided ad nauseum. What remains is your willful disobedience, which is of the exact same character as any willful disobedience to Church teaching on any subject you care to imagine, from abortion to contraception to divorce and remarriage to joining socieities declared off-limits.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
The Church has answered that question. The references have been provided ad nauseum.
The references may be numerous, but the explanations (which are the only important things) give rise to more questions. One of the articles stated that Catholics cannot be masons because masonry is a religion unto itself. I don’t think a religion would demand that it’s members have a religion in order to join. The reasoning in those articles you posted are formed on misconceptions and conspiracy theories, which confuse me even more. 😛
 
The references may be numerous, but the explanations (which are the only important things) give rise to more questions. One of the articles stated that Catholics cannot be masons because masonry is a religion unto itself. I don’t think a religion would demand that it’s members have a religion in order to join. The reasoning in those articles you posted are formed on misconceptions and conspiracy theories, which confuse me even more. 😛
sigh…
 
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