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D
DallasTexas
Guest
Coda,
thank you very much for your post.
Please elaborate on what research it is that I need to do.
I definitely have a lot to learn and do not doubt that there is more that I can study on this subject.
Thank you.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
C
coda
Guest
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N
NoMoreGames
Guest
I’m not trying to say that you don’t know them, but there has been a lot of talking about the oaths and initiation rituals, would someone who has experienced them be willing post them?
But I wouldn’t go as far to say they aren’t compatible with ANY Catholic teachings.
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D
DallasTexas
Guest
Coda,
Thank you for your posting.
You say that to be a mason I have to allow for differing views. How does that imply agreement?
Thank you.
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Thank you for your posting.
How does toleration equal agreement?
You say that to be a mason I have to allow for differing views. How does that imply agreement?
Please elaborate.
Thank you.
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C
coda
Guest
you ARE the company you keep…you agree by your membership. In so far as you are a member, you subscribe to the organizational views of the entity…
C
coda
Guest
I do know them, and
correct—they are ONLY incompatible with the Church teachings they conflict with!–which they do!
Please do a simple google search for info regarding particular reasons[like oaths] why the Church forbids joining the masons. Enlightenment is always just 1 search away…The simple truth is that membership in the masons has been, and will continue to be, a grave conflict of interest for catholics… You’ll have to take your pick and live with the outcome. IMHO it isnt worth your soul, but…
S
Shin
Guest
Q: Can Catholics be masons?
Short Answer: No.(1)
Long Answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.(2)
(1) The Church doesn’t allow it, see the Popes.
(2) The Church REALLLY doesn’t allow it, see TONS of pronouncements by the Popes.
That should be enough for a Catholic. The sure the buds down at Local 362 are great guys, and aren’t busy plotting to destroy Catholicism excuse doesn’t quite cut it, anymore than one can say, I’d like to be a Muslim and be a Catholic at the same time because the guys down at the local Sunni temple are such great buds and Allah really doesn’t conflict with Christ.
Become a Knight of Columbus instead if need be.
Short Answer: No.(1)
Long Answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.(2)
(1) The Church doesn’t allow it, see the Popes.
(2) The Church REALLLY doesn’t allow it, see TONS of pronouncements by the Popes.
That should be enough for a Catholic. The sure the buds down at Local 362 are great guys, and aren’t busy plotting to destroy Catholicism excuse doesn’t quite cut it, anymore than one can say, I’d like to be a Muslim and be a Catholic at the same time because the guys down at the local Sunni temple are such great buds and Allah really doesn’t conflict with Christ.
Become a Knight of Columbus instead if need be.
I
I_Believe
Guest
From The Permanent Instruction Of The Alta Vendita (masonic document}
“The Pope, whoever he is, will never come to the secret societies; it is up to the secret societies to take the first step toward the Church, with the aim of conquering both of them.
“The task that we are going to undertake is not the work of a day, or of a month, or of a year; it may last several years, perhaps a century; but in our ranks the soldier dies and the struggle goes on.
“We do not intend to win the Popes to our cause, to make them neophytes of our principles, propagators of our ideas. That would be a ridiculous dream; and if events turn out in some way, if Cardinals or prelates, for example, of their own free will or by surprise, should enter into a part of our secrets, this is not at all an incentive for desiring their elevation to the See of Peter. That elevation would ruin us. Ambition alone would have led them to apostasy, the requirements of power would force them to sacrifice us. What we must ask for, what we should look for and wait for, as the Jews wait for the Messiah, is a Pope according to our needs …
“With that we shall march more securely towards the assault on the Church than with the pamphlets of our brethren in France and even the gold of England. Do you want to know the reason for this? It is that with this, in order to shatter the high rock on which God has built His Church, we no longer need Hannibalian vinegar, or need gunpowder, or even need our arms. We have the little finger of the successor of Peter engaged in the ploy, and this little finger is as good, for this crusade, as all the Urban II’s and all the Saint Bernards in Christendom.
“We have no doubt that we will arrive at this supreme end of our efforts. But when? But how? The unknown is not yet revealed. Nevertheless, as nothing should turn us aside from the plan drawn up, and on the contrary everything should tend to this, as if as early as tomorrow success were going to crown the work that is barely sketched, we wish, in this instruction, which will remain secret for the mere initiates, to give the officials in the charge of the supreme Vente some advice that they should instill in all the brethren, in the form of instruction or of a memorandum …
“Now then, to assure ourselves a Pope of the required dimensions, it is a question first of shaping him … for this Pope, a generation worthy of the reign we are dreaming of. Leave old people and those of a mature age aside; go to the youth, and if it is possible, even to the children … You will contrive for yourselves, at little cost, a reputation as good Catholics and pure patriots.
“This reputation will put access to our doctrines into the midst of the young clergy, as well as deeply into the monasteries. In a few years, by the force of things, this young clergy will have overrun all the functions; they will form the sovereign’s council, they will be called to choose a Pontiff who should reign. And this Pontiff, like most of his contemporaries, will be necessarily more or less imbued with the Italian and humanitarian principles that we are going to begin to put into circulation. It is a small grain of black mustard that we are entrusting to the ground; but the sunshine of justice will develop it up to the highest power, and you will see one day what a rich harvest this small seed will produce.
“In the path that we are laying out for our brethren, there are found great obstacles to conquer, difficulties of more than one kind to master. They will triumph over them by experience and by clearsightedness; but the goal is so splendid that it is important to put all the sails to the wind in order to reach it. You want to revolutionize Italy, look for the Pope whose portrait we have just drawn. You wish to establish the reign of the chosen ones on the throne of the prostitute of Babylon, let the Clergy march under your standard, always believing that they are marching under the banner of the apostolic keys. You intend to make the last vestige of tyrants and the oppressors disappear; lay your snares like Simon Bar-Jona; lay them in the sacristies, the seminaries, and the monasteries rather than at the bottom of the sea: and if you do not hurry, we promise you a catch more miraculous than his. The fisher of fish became the fisher of men; you will bring friends around the apostolic Chair. You will have preached a revolution in tiara and in cope, marching with the cross and the banner, a revolution that will need to be only a little bit urged on to set fire to the four corners of the world.”
“The Pope, whoever he is, will never come to the secret societies; it is up to the secret societies to take the first step toward the Church, with the aim of conquering both of them.
“The task that we are going to undertake is not the work of a day, or of a month, or of a year; it may last several years, perhaps a century; but in our ranks the soldier dies and the struggle goes on.
“We do not intend to win the Popes to our cause, to make them neophytes of our principles, propagators of our ideas. That would be a ridiculous dream; and if events turn out in some way, if Cardinals or prelates, for example, of their own free will or by surprise, should enter into a part of our secrets, this is not at all an incentive for desiring their elevation to the See of Peter. That elevation would ruin us. Ambition alone would have led them to apostasy, the requirements of power would force them to sacrifice us. What we must ask for, what we should look for and wait for, as the Jews wait for the Messiah, is a Pope according to our needs …
“With that we shall march more securely towards the assault on the Church than with the pamphlets of our brethren in France and even the gold of England. Do you want to know the reason for this? It is that with this, in order to shatter the high rock on which God has built His Church, we no longer need Hannibalian vinegar, or need gunpowder, or even need our arms. We have the little finger of the successor of Peter engaged in the ploy, and this little finger is as good, for this crusade, as all the Urban II’s and all the Saint Bernards in Christendom.
“We have no doubt that we will arrive at this supreme end of our efforts. But when? But how? The unknown is not yet revealed. Nevertheless, as nothing should turn us aside from the plan drawn up, and on the contrary everything should tend to this, as if as early as tomorrow success were going to crown the work that is barely sketched, we wish, in this instruction, which will remain secret for the mere initiates, to give the officials in the charge of the supreme Vente some advice that they should instill in all the brethren, in the form of instruction or of a memorandum …
“Now then, to assure ourselves a Pope of the required dimensions, it is a question first of shaping him … for this Pope, a generation worthy of the reign we are dreaming of. Leave old people and those of a mature age aside; go to the youth, and if it is possible, even to the children … You will contrive for yourselves, at little cost, a reputation as good Catholics and pure patriots.
“This reputation will put access to our doctrines into the midst of the young clergy, as well as deeply into the monasteries. In a few years, by the force of things, this young clergy will have overrun all the functions; they will form the sovereign’s council, they will be called to choose a Pontiff who should reign. And this Pontiff, like most of his contemporaries, will be necessarily more or less imbued with the Italian and humanitarian principles that we are going to begin to put into circulation. It is a small grain of black mustard that we are entrusting to the ground; but the sunshine of justice will develop it up to the highest power, and you will see one day what a rich harvest this small seed will produce.
“In the path that we are laying out for our brethren, there are found great obstacles to conquer, difficulties of more than one kind to master. They will triumph over them by experience and by clearsightedness; but the goal is so splendid that it is important to put all the sails to the wind in order to reach it. You want to revolutionize Italy, look for the Pope whose portrait we have just drawn. You wish to establish the reign of the chosen ones on the throne of the prostitute of Babylon, let the Clergy march under your standard, always believing that they are marching under the banner of the apostolic keys. You intend to make the last vestige of tyrants and the oppressors disappear; lay your snares like Simon Bar-Jona; lay them in the sacristies, the seminaries, and the monasteries rather than at the bottom of the sea: and if you do not hurry, we promise you a catch more miraculous than his. The fisher of fish became the fisher of men; you will bring friends around the apostolic Chair. You will have preached a revolution in tiara and in cope, marching with the cross and the banner, a revolution that will need to be only a little bit urged on to set fire to the four corners of the world.”
T
thistle
Guest
Why is this thread still ongoing? The answer to the OP’s question is NO a Catholic cannot be a Freemason. Any Catholic who is a Freemason is committing a grave sin and cannot receive Communion. The Church documents evidencing this teaching have been provided. It is irrelevant if some posters do not agree with that because that does not change the Church’s teaching.
It should be noted from the Church documents that they do not say a Catholic cannot be a practicing Freemason. It means they cannot be a Freemason (practicing or not). To be in union with the Church and able to receive Communion again they must renounce Freemasonry.
A CATHOLIC CANNOT BE A FREEMASON.
It should be noted from the Church documents that they do not say a Catholic cannot be a practicing Freemason. It means they cannot be a Freemason (practicing or not). To be in union with the Church and able to receive Communion again they must renounce Freemasonry.
A CATHOLIC CANNOT BE A FREEMASON.
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NoMoreGames
Guest
It’s easy to say you know them, but the only ones I can find online don’t say anything against Catholicism. The web is often a non reliable resource, so that’s why I was asking if some one has experienced them. If you have could you post them or post a link to one that is accurate?
Actually, that’s from the Italian Carbonari. It may share similarities and connections to masonry, but that doesn’t mean the document is from both. It actually never even had a connection to masonry until the church ordered it to be published.
C
coda
Guest
Look guy, YOUR CHURCH FORBIDS YOU, UNDER PAIN OF MORTAL SIN, NOT TO JOIN THE MASONS! If you still feel the need to be a SIMPLETON and remain in the masons after the truth has clearly been revealed to you—oh well! sigh… orrrrr,could you just be a troll?..AT any rate, any MORON can,within minutes, look up the initiation rite for the apprentice or higher degrees, with a simple google search!
N
NoMoreGames
Guest
Any any one could publish what they are calling the initiation rites to freemasonry. Out of curiosity, I was simply asking for someone who has experienced them to post them to see if they match the ones I found online (I’ve already stated this). If that person is not you, don’t worry about my question. I know what the church teaches, but unlike most I also care deeply about the why. I’ll say that again. My curiosity is not about WHAT the church teaches, but WHY. If you can’t answer that with out simply saying “the church says so,” then don’t answer, I can wait for someone who can. I’m patient
C
coda
Guest
MY bestcatholic} friend is a mason and is in denial just like you are… He has agreed that the info that i found online wih a brief google search is indeed accurate. I hope you are very patient, because you will have to wait for hell to freeze over before the Church that you claim to belong to allows for your membership in the masons! btw— no one else is trying to convince you or give you" credible info" because you wont listen… no one else cares… unless you care to be a little less obtuse, this is my last reply. peace and good luckAny any one could publish what they are calling the initiation rites to freemasonry. Out of curiosity, I was simply asking for someone who has experienced them to post them to see if they match the ones I found online (I’ve already stated this). If that person is not you, don’t worry about my question. I know what the church teaches, but unlike most I also care deeply about the why. I’ll say that again. My curiosity is not about WHAT the church teaches, but WHY. If you can’t answer that with out simply saying “the church says so,” then don’t answer, I can wait for someone who can. I’m patient
M
mlchance
Guest
Patient is good. So is diligence. The what and the why have both been referenced in this thread more than once.My curiosity is not about WHAT the church teaches, but WHY. If you can’t answer that with out simply saying “the church says so,” then don’t answer, I can wait for someone who can. I’m patient
cin.org/users/james/files/masons1.htm
scripturecatholic.com/
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHATMAS.HTM
nicenetruth.com/home/2008/10/masonry-unmaske.html
papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13human.htm
You can stop pretending that the Church’s position hasn’t been explained.
– Mark L. Chance.
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NoMoreGames
Guest
And that was all you had to say. I never claimed to have the desire to join the free masons. I was just curious and all the logic seemed circular is all. And I do listen. Not understanding does not mean I don’t listen. It means I don’t understand.
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D
Deum_quaerens
Guest
French Masons are quite proud that the anti-Catholic French Revolution was prepared in the Lodges, as was the legalization of abortion.
I had the opportunity to debate with two “pro-choice Catholics”, both of whom were Masons.
Freemasonry clearly fosters indifferentism and opinions opposed to Catholic doctrine, such as that expressed below:
I had the opportunity to debate with two “pro-choice Catholics”, both of whom were Masons.
Freemasonry clearly fosters indifferentism and opinions opposed to Catholic doctrine, such as that expressed below:
This is totally contrary to the Catholic doctrine on freedom of conscience and freedom of speech, which liberties are at greatest odds with the salvation of souls.
C
coda
Guest
Then your whole obstinate argument was moot from the beginning. Thanks for wasting other’s time. The only “circular” logic was your own. Stick to Church teaching—you will NEVER be misled. peace
N
NoMoreGames
Guest
so my questioning of a teaching was moot just because I had no personal interest of joining? Questions are always legitimate, nor is it not sticking to church teaching.
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